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Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night

Posted: 05/08/2013 11:09 PM

Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


http://www.msn.foxsports.com/m...-element-050813

In an ideal world MLB would have the authority to send underperforming umpires to the minor leagues (After all managers, coaches and players are held to similarly high standards.) ......


Very good article.

Last edited 05/08/2013 11:24 PM by oaklady

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Posted: 05/08/2013 11:56 PM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


Really wonder if it was a little payback to Melvin who he threw out on MON. Fosse mentioned it on TV and even the MLBN guys who all were stunned that it wasn't rule a hr also picked up on Fosse's reasoning and wonders if not only was it a vendetta against the A's for what happened a couple of nights ago but also questioned that as the crew chief in that group whether the other umps who saw the play didn't want question his final decision on the ruling even if they thought themselves it was a hr after looking at the replay.

The ball hit a freaking foot above the yellow line, I saw it on the first replay even without them zooming onto the area of the wall/gate, how can you not see it on a HD replay with zoom I'd guess for a good minute or two is beyond me. Terrible, just freaking terrible.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 12:00 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


Appearantly this ump has had issues going WAY BACK to little league. Wow.

Jorge Sedano ‏@SedanoShow
@MarcCarig Angel Hernandez began as an ump at the park I grew going to. Drove little leaguers parents up the wall. His dad ran the park
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Posted: 05/09/2013 3:45 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


This is getting a ton of national attention, this morning on ESPN radio they spent about a good 10 or so minutes just dumbfounded in how it wasn't ruled a hr. Golic who actually is an Indians fan said on the first replay he saw of the play thought it was a hr.

Olney's tweets this morning.

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
MLB should step in, reverse the call on the OAK-CLE disputed HR, and play the game from that point forward. Can be done today.

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
For those asking about precedent on reversing umps' call: Yes, the Pine Tar game. Replayed from point of Brett HR forward.

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
Writing the column this morning that sometime in the next 6 hours, MLB should reverse disputed HR call and play the game from pt. it was 4-4

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
Inaction from the Commish would be as inexplicable as the umps’ decision to not overturn HR call. Here's precedent: ******/18vxR84


I doubt this happens, if Selig didn't overturn the whole perfect game ruling in 2010 with Joyce who blew the call at 1b which would've ended the game, I can't see him having the onions to overturn this ruling either.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 3:58 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


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Posted: 05/09/2013 5:46 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


While I feel horrible about the perfect game incident - here is the difference: there was no IR in that game. This was not a blown call by the eye (to the naked eye, that would have been hard to call a homer). The point is that this was blow, via IR, which was instituted via MLB!

I could have lived with this easily had it been ruled a 2b, and no replay was done - and then later it was found out that it did go over. But to actually have this thing reviewed and STILL blown, is just utterly unacceptable.

Human error by umps is part of what makes baseball so great. I don't mind that. Moving strike zones suck, but I would never want an automated strike zone caller. That said, replaying a homer, a fair/foul with the game on the line, etc - this was WHY IR was instituted and it's embarrassing that they so badly botched it.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 6:55 AM

Re: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 



oaklady wrote: http://www.msn.foxsports.com/m...-element-050813

In an ideal world MLB would have the authority to send underperforming umpires to the minor leagues (After all managers, coaches and players are held to similarly high standards.) ......


Very good article.
You mean they can't fire crappy umps?  That seems wrong.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 7:48 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 



asch1 wrote: While I feel horrible about the perfect game incident - here is the difference: there was no IR in that game. This was not a blown call by the eye (to the naked eye, that would have been hard to call a homer). The point is that this was blow, via IR, which was instituted via MLB!

I could have lived with this easily had it been ruled a 2b, and no replay was done - and then later it was found out that it did go over. But to actually have this thing reviewed and STILL blown, is just utterly unacceptable.

Human error by umps is part of what makes baseball so great. I don't mind that. Moving strike zones suck, but I would never want an automated strike zone caller. That said, replaying a homer, a fair/foul with the game on the line, etc - this was WHY IR was instituted and it's embarrassing that they so badly botched it.
agreed 110%

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Posted: 05/09/2013 7:51 AM

Re: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


I, and probably like 600,000 other people, will be AMAZED if Selig does anything that favors the A's.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:03 AM

Re: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 



sleepingcobra wrote: I, and probably like 600,000 other people, will be AMAZED if Selig does anything that favors the A's.
"Inaction from the Commish would be inexplicable." I'm making some popcorn to snack on during the inaction.

"Today's one of those days, where the white shoes look a little shinier and feel a little better." --Bob Melvin
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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:18 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


I would. Getting the call right is everything. The players are the game. Umpires are there to facilitate matters, not get in the way of the action. Whatever it takes to get the call right, it should be done. If we have the technology it should be used.


asch1 wrote: ...I would never want an automated strike zone caller.
______________________________________
http://everythinglucy.youns.com/lovelucy.asp?offset=15

Last edited 05/09/2013 8:19 AM by zorch

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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:20 AM

Re: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


You're not allowed to protest judgment calls, but you are allowed to protest misinterpretations of rules.  And I think there's a good case to be made that Hernandez misinterpreted the rules regarding the standard of evidence required to overturn a call on the field.

According to the actual MLB rules:

The standard used by the crew chief when reviewing a play will be whether there is clear and convincing evidence that the umpire's decision on the field was incorrect and should be reversed.

"Clear and convincing evidence" falls somewhere between "preponderance of evidence" (the standard of evidence required in civil trials) and "beyond a reasonable doubt" (the standard used in criminal trials).  

But Hernandez didn't apply the "clear and convincing evidence" standard.  Instead, he applied a far more stringent standard:

"I don't know what kind of replay you had, but you can't reverse a call unless there's 100 percent evidence."

Hernandez is simply wrong that overturning a call requires "100 percent evidence," and his misinterpretation of the rules should be subject to protest.  

Whether or not Melvin lodged such a protest prior to the next pitch being thrown is unclear.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:25 AM

Re: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


This issue involves the A's, so Selig will undoubtedly appoint a "blue ribbon panel" to look into the matter.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:37 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 



athleticpride wrote: Really wonder if it was a little payback to Melvin who he threw out on MON. Fosse mentioned it on TV and even the MLBN guys who all were stunned that it wasn't rule a hr also picked up on Fosse's reasoning and wonders if not only was it a vendetta against the A's for what happened a couple of nights ago but also questioned that as the crew chief in that group whether the other umps who saw the play didn't want question his final decision on the ruling even if they thought themselves it was a hr after looking at the replay.

The ball hit a freaking foot above the yellow line, I saw it on the first replay even without them zooming onto the area of the wall/gate, how can you not see it on a HD replay with zoom I'd guess for a good minute or two is beyond me. Terrible, just freaking terrible.
Pretty sad isn't it when the crew chief is an umpire who should never have been hired in the first place?  Tons of quotes everywhere from sports writers, etc. with re to the incompetence of Hernandez and even saying the worst umpire in the game ... and he is.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:49 AM

Re: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


This has become pretty big national news.  They've been denouncing it on both ESPN and ESPN2.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:56 AM

Re: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


This.  He made an error in applying the rules - applied the wrong standard.


AthertonA wrote: You're not allowed to protest judgment calls, but you are allowed to protest misinterpretations of rules.  And I think there's a good case to be made that Hernandez misinterpreted the rules regarding the standard of evidence required to overturn a call on the field.

According to the actual MLB rules:

The standard used by the crew chief when reviewing a play will be whether there is clear and convincing evidence that the umpire's decision on the field was incorrect and should be reversed.

"Clear and convincing evidence" falls somewhere between "preponderance of evidence" (the standard of evidence required in civil trials) and "beyond a reasonable doubt" (the standard used in criminal trials).  

But Hernandez didn't apply the "clear and convincing evidence" standard.  Instead, he applied a far more stringent standard:

"I don't know what kind of replay you had, but you can't reverse a call unless there's 100 percent evidence."

Hernandez is simply wrong that overturning a call requires "100 percent evidence," and his misinterpretation of the rules should be subject to protest.  

Whether or not Melvin lodged such a protest prior to the next pitch being thrown is unclear.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:56 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


Let's hope they overturn it. There's not really time now, but they could finish yesterday's game after today's, before everyone gets on the plane.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:57 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 


It'd be a shame if this came back to bite baseball again in October...if the division came down to one game again.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 9:01 AM

Re: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 



AthertonA wrote: You're not allowed to protest judgment calls, but you are allowed to protest misinterpretations of rules.  And I think there's a good case to be made that Hernandez misinterpreted the rules regarding the standard of evidence required to overturn a call on the field.

According to the actual MLB rules:

The standard used by the crew chief when reviewing a play will be whether there is clear and convincing evidence that the umpire's decision on the field was incorrect and should be reversed.

"Clear and convincing evidence" falls somewhere between "preponderance of evidence" (the standard of evidence required in civil trials) and "beyond a reasonable doubt" (the standard used in criminal trials).  

But Hernandez didn't apply the "clear and convincing evidence" standard.  Instead, he applied a far more stringent standard:

"I don't know what kind of replay you had, but you can't reverse a call unless there's 100 percent evidence."

Hernandez is simply wrong that overturning a call requires "100 percent evidence," and his misinterpretation of the rules should be subject to protest.  

Whether or not Melvin lodged such a protest prior to the next pitch being thrown is unclear.
For reference, MLB Rule 4.19:

PROTESTING GAMES

Each league shall adopt rules governing procedure for protesting a game, when a manager claims that an umpire’s decision is in violation of these rules. No protest shall ever be permitted on judgment decisions by the umpire. In all protested games, the decision of the League President shall be final.  Even if it is held that the protested decision violated the rules, no replay of the game will be ordered unless in the opinion of the League President the violation adversely affected the protesting team’s chances of winning the game.

Rule 4.19 Comment: Whenever a manager protests a game because of alleged misapplication of the rules the protest will not be recognized unless the umpires are notified at the time the play under protest occurs and before the next pitch, play or attempted play. A protest arising on a game-ending play may be filed until 12 noon the following day with the league office. 
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Posted: 05/09/2013 9:20 AM

RE: Jon Morosi: Angel Hernandez embarrassed MLB on Wed night 



BigJ7489 wrote: Let's hope they overturn it. There's not really time now, but they could finish yesterday's game after today's, before everyone gets on the plane.

Or it could happen when the Indians visit Oakland later this year.

What Bud should say, if he had any courage, is that right is right and regardless of whether Melvin filed an immediate protest or not, the game is tied and will be picked up from that point on. 

However, I am not holding my breath.  If Bud shows this type of courage, it will be his first time ever.
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