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How Should the A's handle the DH this year?

Posted: 01/14/2013 3:07 PM

How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


    How Should the A's handle the DH this year?

  1. Poll ends on 01/21/2198
  2. Carter DH Moss at 1b, Ces-Young-Reddick OF,Crisp 4th Of: 11 votes
  3. Rotation Dh Among Young, Ces, Reddick,Crisp &platoon 1b: 7 votes
  4. Crisp at DH, platoon 1b: 2 votes
  5. Young at DH, platoon 1b: 0 votes
  6. Ces at DH platoon 1b: 0 votes
  7. Moss at 1b, 1 of 4 at DH, Carter bench: 1 vote
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Posted: 01/14/2013 3:37 PM

Re: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


Against RHP:

1B: Moss
LF: Smith
CF: Young
RF: Reddick
DH: Cespedes

I'm torn between Crisp and Young in CF.  Young's probably ~10 runs better with the glove, but Crisp's the better offensive player against RHP.  Ideally, they'd mix it up--as well as alternating Smith/Cespedes at LF/DH.

It makes no sense to DH Crisp or Young.  Smith gets the nod over Carter because he projects to be the superior hitter against RHP.

Against LHP:

1B: Carter
LF: Crisp
CF: Young
RF: Reddick
DH: Cespedes

This one's much easier, as Smith has no business playing against lefties.

Last edited 01/14/2013 3:39 PM by AthertonA

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Posted: 01/14/2013 3:45 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


I voted carter at Dh, crisp on bench.Carter had a great year last year, as given a 150-160 games could hit close to 40 Hrs and walk close to 100 times, something the A's haven't had in a long, long time.

Carter has the potential to be the 2nd best hitter on the team, with the best power on the team and probably the best OBP skills as well. I'm assuming Smith is fairly entrenched as trade bait/5th OF.
I think Crisp and Young are pretty near equal players on offense, with Young having more power. Crisp's D has been on the downside over the past two seasons, and obviously has a belong average arm. I believe Young should open as the CF,even though he has pretty clear platoon splits.
IMO rotation DHs or putting Crisp at DH, and essentially putting Carter as a platoon 1b could be catastrophic to the A's offense giving Carter's potential as a hitter. Carter is a substantially better hitter then Crisp, Smith, Young and is better than Reddick. Having Cespedes, Carter along with Reddick/Moss, if they both carry over could give the A's 4 good hitters. I wouldn't be opposed to a Young/Smith Platoon with Cespedes or Reddick in CF, actually i would prefer that the most, but don't think that is realistic for whatever reason.

Vs. RHP
Moss 1b,Smith Rf, Cespedes Cf/LF, Carter DH, Reddick Cf/RF, Norris C, Donaldson 3b, Weeks 2b, Nakajima SS
Vs. LHP
Young CF, Sizemore 2b, Ces LF, Carter DH, Donaldson 3b, Moss 1b, Norris C, Reddick Rf, Nakajima SS.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 3:50 PM

Re: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


While that too make sense, I can't bring myself to bench Carter's Power/OBP skills vs RHP, both could be elite.
I felt like Reddick could handle Cf, and probably Cespedes too, but moving him around isn't smart.
I'd want to see if Moss could play everyday, and just slide Crisp to the 4th OF, or pinch running role.
Young/Smith Platoon, with Carter at DH and Moss at 1b is a better combo offensive than a Young/Crisp platoon, as both Moss and Carter as vastly superior hitters to Crisp, and you aren't taking a hit on defense in the process IMO.
AthertonA wrote: Against RHP:

1B: Moss
LF: Smith
CF: Young
RF: Reddick
DH: Cespedes

I'm torn between Crisp and Young in CF.  Young's probably ~10 runs better with the glove, but Crisp's the better offensive player against RHP.  Ideally, they'd mix it up--as well as alternating Smith/Cespedes at LF/DH.

It makes no sense to DH Crisp or Young.  Smith gets the nod over Carter because he projects to be the superior hitter against RHP.

Against LHP:

1B: Carter
LF: Crisp
CF: Young
RF: Reddick
DH: Cespedes

This one's much easier, as Smith has no business playing against lefties.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 4:47 PM

Re: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


Is it a lock smith makes the team?
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Posted: 01/14/2013 4:51 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 



zitoforpres wrote:
Vs. RHP
Moss 1b,Smith Rf, Cespedes Cf/LF, Carter DH, Reddick Cf/RF, Norris C, Donaldson 3b, Weeks 2b, Nakajima SS
Vs. LHP
Young CF, Sizemore 2b, Ces LF, Carter DH, Donaldson 3b, Moss 1b, Norris C, Reddick Rf, Nakajima SS.
So either Cespedes or Reddick play CF 70% (vs. RHP) of the time and shift to a corner in a against opposite-handed starters?  Has a manager EVER shifted a starter's defensive position based on the handedness of the opposing starting pitcher?  One might agree that you have the optimal batting lineups if one grants that playing Carter vs. RHP is worth the downgrade in defense in CF from Crisp or Young (I'll leave Moss vs. LHP alone).  However, I don't think this kind of splitting time at different positions based on the opposing starter's handedness has *ever* been done.  Melvin will rotate players at the DH before he goes to a strict platooning of defensive positions for a single player, especially when trying such an untested strategy would put one of the team's most popular players, one who also has a lot of perceived value, on the bench.

The management thinks Crisp >> Carter until Crisp loses his skills and Carter establishes reliable consistency.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 4:58 PM

Re: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 



ericwantsbbd wrote: Is it a lock smith makes the team?
Good question.  I know teams inquired about dealing for him during the season, but the A's weren't interested in doing so.  I have no idea whether any offered anything specific or whether it even got that far.  I would say as the season moves on, if there's something available to fill a need, that probably Smith or Crisp could be first to go.  I hope it's not Crisp, but it is baseball, after all and wouldn't be surprised.  I like Smith, too, but he's not too effective vs. lefties, I don't think.  I haven't checked his numbers, but my recall says he's not.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 5:23 PM

Re: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 



ericwantsbbd wrote: Is it a lock smith makes the team?
I don't see why he wouldn't unless he brings something tasty back in a trade.  

The roster is set with 7 OFs and 1B, one of whom will be DHing on any given day, making two bench players out of that group.  Additional reserves will include one UTIF and the backup catcher, which rounds out the position-player slots as the pitching staff always has at least 7 relievers.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 5:30 PM

Re: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


So much can change throughout the season. I picked option B, as I'd like to start out with a 1b platoon, and using the DH spot for all our good hitters occasionally. I'd let Cespedes, Young and Crisp get some time at DH to have their bats/legs in the lineup, and more importantly, try to keep them fresh with their injury history. I'd like to get Carter some time at DH vs RHP, since it's way too early to assume he's just a platoon guy, and I'd like to see him and Moss in the same lineup occasionally.

I know that I don't want to see Young used in a platoon, he should be in CF most every day. I don't want to see Cespedes relegated to DH, as he's got nice defensive tools and needs to be further evaluated out there. I don't want to see Crisp become a bench player, he should get regular playing time. I don't want to see Carter in a strict platoon, as he's got too much promise to be relegated to a platoon.

Here's the guys I consider "everyday players" with this roster, meaning only occasional days off; Cespedes (LF/DH), Young (CF/DH), Reddick (RF), Crisp (CF, LF, DH), Donaldson (3b), Nakajima (SS).

Here's the guys I would start in more "platoon" type roles, who could earn more time as things shape out, but will get pretty steady AB's early on; Carter (1b, DH), Moss (1b), Weeks/Sizemore (2b), Norris/Kottaras (C).

The only guys I see who should have a hard time cracking lineups on this roster right now are Parrino (utility) and Smith (5th OF)). I do think Smith has more value than a typical 5th outfielder, and would be worried about his morale if left in this role, which is why I wouldn't mind seeing him traded. That being said, he could be great insurance if some of the everyday/platoon options get injured or regress.

If I was in charge of this team, I'd probably explain the situation to Smith, and ask him if he'd rather take his chances at being able to work his way into this lineup, or be traded. If he had a good attitude about starting the season as a 5th OF, I'd hold onto him, get him spot starts to relieve Reddick/Cespedes/Crisp/Carter against RHP, and go from there.

Pretty confusing situation, but it's certainly nice to have so much talent on this team.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 5:48 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


Smith has a good claim to being the 3rd-best hitter vs. RHP on the team. You could even make a case for 2nd with the uncertainty about Moss' performance going forward. He should be in the lineup against RHP almost all of the time, no questions asked. He's also been a part-time player before, so you can count on him to produce in that role where Crisp and/or Young may react badly to not playing every day.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 7:00 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


One thing that should also be kept in mind is that Crisp is the A's only batter that fits the classic profile of a leadoff hitter other than the good version of Weeks. If Weeks isn't playing at near or above his 2011 level, Melvin will be hard-pressed to take Crisp out of the lineup.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 7:01 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


They should recognize that the rule is stupid and let the pitcher hit.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 8:00 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


Pick your Poison for the DH....
Heck if Choice has a "really-realy-really good" spring it'll force the A's to make a decision they're not ready to IMO. They'll have to trade someone sooner than they'd like or just option Choice back down and see how things go in beginning of season and maybe bring him back up later?? Anything can happen at this point.. Like last year I think Melvin will let each players' play dictate how the DH will evolve this year as well.

Infielders/DH

1.) Daric Barton
2.) Chris Carter
3.) Brandon Moss
______________________________________________


Outfielders/DH

1.) Yoenis Cespedes
2.) Coco CRisp
3.) Josh Reddick
4.) Seth Smith
5.) Chris Young

& other OF from 40 man roster and invitees

6.) Michael Taylor
7.) Michael Choice
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Posted: 01/14/2013 8:08 PM

Re: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


I think DH is a very fluid position, since we don't have a clear cut leader in the clubhouse, so to speak. My inclination is to go with whichever of Carter and Moss isn't starting that day. But if one of those guys is scuffling, or banged up, or needs a day off - then you choose from the OF who aren't starting. And as the trump card in all that figuring, you have to consider what Melvin did last year to near perfection: balance between the matchups and the hot hand, and - dare I say it - his gut.

Also to be considered: Say Smith, Young and Carter are your DH choices on a particular day, and they're all performing at about the same level. Should Melvin also be taking into account which of those guys is more valuable coming off the bench? Is Young - with his plus glove - a better guy to keep in reserve in the event of an OF switch? Is Smith - with more of a history of pinch-hitting - better suited to take a critical AB in the 8th or 9th inning?

It's more than just a linear set of numbers which does into making these decisions.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 8:12 PM

Re: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


I'd like to add that whatever Melvin does with this team and the lineup won't get any argument from me. Melvin proved naysayers on this board wrong on a daily basis last season. He's in tune with his players and knows how to get the best out of them. He's got a great feel for the game and knows how to recognize match-ups. So many advantages over somebody like myself who is left with just stats, and what I see on TV.

I'd rather be right than wrong, but all I really care about is winning.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 8:30 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


bottom line is, until they prove otherwise, Carter and Moss need to be in the line up every single day. Crisp and Young have proven to be either platoon guys( Young) or just not comparable to Carter and Moss(crisp). I hope that playing favorites or worrying about guys who will whine about playing time (crisp) doesn't take playing time away from guys who are better hitters( Carter, ?Moss?).

I don't believe the A's will make the correct decision at this point( Stephen Drew leading off in the playoffs, Carter getting zero ABs in the playoffs), though.

I stick fairly comfortable to platooning Smith and Young, and letting Crisp be a 4th of/pinch runner, he's that inferior offensely, and his defense isn't great anymore, and his arm is a huge liability.
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Posted: 01/14/2013 8:32 PM

Re: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


lol
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Posted: 01/14/2013 8:33 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


Crisp is a classic 8th or 9th hitter. I don't care how good at stealing bases you are, if you are going to OBP at a .320 clip, you don't need the most ABs on the team.
Moss would be a significantly better lead off hitter. Teams like the Jays( Lawrie) and Indians (Choo) put very good OBP guys leading off, I hope that's a trend the A's decide is very smart and should emulate.. which it is. Moss and Young would be a great " lead off platoon", as Young is very good vs. LHP, though downright awful vs. RHP. Moss could pick him up vs. RHP and both could get on base for the A's best hitters. Sizemore and Young could be a very good 1-2 punch at the top of the line up vs. LHP.
Qwerty75 wrote: One thing that should also be kept in mind is that Crisp is the A's only batter that fits the classic profile of a leadoff hitter other than the good version of Weeks. If Weeks isn't playing at near or above his 2011 level, Melvin will be hard-pressed to take Crisp out of the lineup.

Last edited 01/14/2013 8:37 PM by zitoforpres

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Posted: 01/14/2013 9:14 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 


The Jays and the Indians $ucked last year. I don't want the A's to emulate them.

---------------------------------------------
--- zitoforpres wrote:

Crisp is a classic 8th or 9th hitter. I don't care how good at stealing bases you are, if you are going to OBP at a .320 clip, you don't need the most ABs on the team.
Moss would be a significantly better lead off hitter. Teams like the Jays( Lawrie) and Indians (Choo) put very good OBP guys leading off, I hope that's a trend the A's decide is very smart and should emulate.. which it is. Moss and Young would be a great " lead off platoon", as Young is very good vs. LHP, though downright awful vs. RHP. Moss could pick him up vs. RHP and both could get on base for the A's best hitters. Sizemore and Young could be a very good 1-2 punch at the top of the line up vs. LHP.
Qwerty75 wrote: One thing that should also be kept in mind is that Crisp is the A's only batter that fits the classic profile of a leadoff hitter other than the good version of Weeks. If Weeks isn't playing at near or above his 2011 level, Melvin will be hard-pressed to take Crisp out of the lineup.


---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 01/14/2013 9:48 PM

RE: How Should the A's handle the DH this year? 



DaaronB wrote: The Jays and the Indians $ucked last year. I don't want the A's to emulate them.

---------------------------------------------
--- zitoforpres wrote:

Crisp is a classic 8th or 9th hitter. I don't care how good at stealing bases you are, if you are going to OBP at a .320 clip, you don't need the most ABs on the team.
Moss would be a significantly better lead off hitter. Teams like the Jays( Lawrie) and Indians (Choo) put very good OBP guys leading off, I hope that's a trend the A's decide is very smart and should emulate.. which it is. Moss and Young would be a great " lead off platoon", as Young is very good vs. LHP, though downright awful vs. RHP. Moss could pick him up vs. RHP and both could get on base for the A's best hitters. Sizemore and Young could be a very good 1-2 punch at the top of the line up vs. LHP.
Qwerty75 wrote: One thing that should also be kept in mind is that Crisp is the A's only batter that fits the classic profile of a leadoff hitter other than the good version of Weeks. If Weeks isn't playing at near or above his 2011 level, Melvin will be hard-pressed to take Crisp out of the lineup.


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+1... I was thinking the same thing. (Indians, Jays ETC..)
 If your looking at just stats, it doesn't tell the whole story. You have to watch what each player brings, whether its on the bases, taking pitches, working pitch count, defense + batting, base running, make pitchers throw over to 1st 4 or 5 times each time on base, drawing walks for the next batter, going deep into counts so pitcher shows tendecies for other hitters up next, etc etc etc...

 I could go on all day. Maybe one day I will, now that I mentioned it...Hmmmmm??
Anyways, there are sooooooo many other variables that go into play when it comes to batting order, line-up etc.. But one thing is for sure a balanced line-up is better than one with all power hitters or one with all single hitters. 

 Melvin did a hell of a job last year balancing the line-up, day in and day out. I don't expect anything less. The results may not be the same (Walk off and Pie) every other game, but I do think the A's have more of a fighting chance than most teams. IMO
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