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Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
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Posted: 12/03/2012 10:26 PM
Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
Who do you want at shortstop?
- Poll closed on 12/10/2012
- Drew: 12 votes
- Escobar: 11 votes
- Nakajima: 11 votes
- Cabrera: 4 votes
- Lowrie: 3 votes
- In house option of Rosales-Sogard-Parrino: 2 votes
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Posted: 12/03/2012 10:45 PM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
I voted Nakajima because he'll be the most exciting. We'd really have no idea what we'd be getting. Uncertainty draws me in, but I also think this team needs mostly high risk, high reward plays to go all reward in the same season to put up another banner.
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Posted: 12/03/2012 10:55 PM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
I voted Escobar because he's better than anyone else on that list. Cabrera may be almost as good, but he'll cost a lot more to get.
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Posted: 12/03/2012 11:17 PM
RE: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
I'd be okay with any except the in house option, provided they aren't too expensive, like it sounds Cabrera is. And I'm a little iffy on Nakajima, who could really hurt if he turns out to be a bust.
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Posted: 12/03/2012 11:30 PM
RE: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
Drew likely would cost the most least in terms of the contract that he'll likely get from other teams. Can't see the A's getting into a bidding war if Drew does have one or two teams that are serious in signing him.
Escobar, we all know the story. Million dollar talent, ten cent head. Still 3 out of the past 5 season he's posted a WAR of 4 or above. If he can get his head on straight and just play up to his skills, he's a very good SS. Not likely you'd have to trade much to MIA to land him and could be a bargain even at 2/10 left on his deal. Could be a great SS/#2 in the lineup behind Crisp as he has a career .353 OBP. With Escobar being here for two seasons, could be a perfect guy to transition to Russell maybe in 2014 if Russell is as good as we all hope he showed he was last summer at three levels and flies thru the A's minor league system over the next two seasons.
Nakajima probably wouldn't cost a ton. Does scare me the last highy thought of SS to come out of Japan bombed with MIN the past few seasons. Cabrera would likely cost you more than what you'd want to offer to CLE. They'd probably ask for Parker which is a non starter. Lowrie would be nice if he could ever stay healthy and who knows if HOU would want to trade within the division now?
The in house options I've never been satisfied with. Guess one option I left out is the Cuban SS Diaz.
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Posted: 12/03/2012 11:31 PM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
I want two of Escobar/Drew/Nakajima. Escobar for sure, because he is the best player of the three. I'm only interested in Nakajima for second base. If the A's somehow land both Drew and Escobar, Drew should play second as Escobar is the better defender. But if Drew *has* to play shortstop to get him on board, then Escobar moves to second.
I admit Escobar/Drew is unlikely but Escobar/Nakajima isn't a stretch.
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Posted: 12/03/2012 11:44 PM
RE: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
drew can't hit, cabrera can't field.. escobar.
beane can tap into a new undervalued market. undervalued player due to stereotypical cliches and generalizations.
Last edited 12/03/2012 11:45 PM by zitoforpres
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Posted: 12/04/2012 12:05 AM
RE: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
I voted Drew, but for me, a tossup btw Drew and Cabrera, though Cabrera is out, as Susan indicated, Cleveland wants Jarrod Parker in return. I consider Escobar a homophobic cancer who, on his best day, might decide to give close to 80%, depending on his mood. Also, not a good clubhouse guy ... and I'm being kind. Nakajima sounds somewhat intriguing as well but as someone alluded to, not sure what you're getting
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Posted: 12/04/2012 12:28 AM
RE: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
i'm positive the A's won't be blinded by cruel, unfair, and uncalled for indictments and bring along the vast superior player of the potential group, Yunel Escobar.
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Posted: 12/04/2012 2:46 AM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
I vote Nakajima. If our international scouting staff thinks he's legit, go for it. He'll be the most affordable option, and we wont have to give up any prospects. He'd be the most exciting for me as a fan, for the reasons Beerme mentioned.
I think Cabrera is the best SS on the list, just not sure if he'll be worth the price in prospects. I'd obviously take him over Escobar if the prospects traded were the same, but I could see how Escobar could be the better value if he comes at a lesser price. Cabrera has slowed down a bit it seems, put on a bit of weight, but he is far from a defensive liability. He's average at worst at SS at this point in his career, and I don't see him falling off a cliff over the next 2 seasons.
Never heard much about Escobar being a cancer before the eye black incident, but why would Atlanta and Toronto be so eager to trade him? Either way, with his talent, I'd take him if the price is right, I think he'd be worth a small gamble.
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Posted: 12/04/2012 6:47 AM
RE: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
zitoforpres wrote:
beane can tap into a new undervalued market. undervalued player due to stereotypical cliches and generalizations. There's nothing new about that undervalued market, and Beane has definitely gone that route before. Wasn't too long ago we traded a B grade prospect for a prime aged stud talent who happened to be a headcase...Milton Bradley. It was good at times while it lasted, but painful in the long run. I see Escobar as a high risk high reward type. If he comes in and doesn't give a full effort, or otherwise plays how he did in 2011, it could hurt the team. If he returns to his 4 WAR form and carries himself like a professional, he could be a huge addition. Will be interesting to see what route the A's go. I'd be happy if they got an established SS such as Escobar, along with Aledmys Diaz (if affordable). I'm also hoping with the money off the books from Suzuki/Fuentes/McCarthy etc, they'll have enough money put aside to make a run at Dariel Abreu if he decides to defect.
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Posted: 12/04/2012 7:44 AM
RE: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
Why not Hiroyuki Nakajima --- the A's won last year with guys hitting .200 there.....
Losers whine about their best...... Winners go home and %##%# the prom queen.
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Posted: 12/04/2012 7:55 AM
RE: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
Amen brother. Fun to have so many unusual ethnic backgrounds on the team too. JMUplayermike wrote: Why not Hiroyuki Nakajima --- the A's won last year with guys hitting .200 there..... |
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Posted: 12/04/2012 8:39 AM
RE: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
Voted Nakajima since he's probably the most cost effective option. The money saved on him compared to Drew should be helpful to getting McCarthy back, signing Diaz, buying out Parker's arb years, etc.
It doesn't make any sense to trade for Escobar or Cabrera while Drew and Nakajima are still available, especially Cabrera given Cleveland's asking price.
Nakajima is #1, but Drew is #1a. He's the perfect combination of ability, age, and expected contract length to hold down the fort till Russell gets to the bigs.
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Posted: 12/04/2012 8:39 AM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
Because Nakajima may not be good. For someone making the jump, his offensive numbers were mediocre the last two years and there are even more questions about his defense.
It's fun to fetishize the unknown because you can dream on uncertainty. Those familiar with prospecting know it as shiny new toy syndrome.
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Posted: 12/04/2012 8:52 AM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
lenscrafters wrote: Because Nakajima may not be good. For someone making the jump, his offensive numbers were mediocre the last two years and there are even more questions about his defense.
It's fun to fetishize the unknown because you can dream on uncertainty. Those familiar with prospecting know it as shiny new toy syndrome. Japan went to a more dead ball 2 years ago and all offensive numbers dropped a lot. Even though his numbers went down 2 year agao, Nakajima was 8th in OPS in 2012 and 15th in 2011 (both leagues combined). Defense worries me though. Still haven't been able to find some youtube footage of him at SS. But even his wiki page describes him as being known to be "somewhat sloppy at times". They also compare his style to a young Kaz Matsui, who's defense was barely up to par at 2B. Overall Japanese middle infielders don't have much of a reputation. |
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Posted: 12/04/2012 8:52 AM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
He had the 4th highest OPS in the league last season, that's excellent for a middle infielder. His last two seasons aren't as good as his younger years but offense is down overall in Japan recently. So he's putting up better than mediocre offensive numbers. Defense is still a huge unknown though.
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--- lenscrafters wrote:
Because Nakajima may not be good. For someone making the jump, his offensive numbers were mediocre the last two years and there are even more questions about his defense.
It's fun to fetishize the unknown because you can dream on uncertainty. Those familiar with prospecting know it as shiny new toy syndrome.
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Posted: 12/04/2012 9:11 AM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
beermeplease wrote: He had the 4th highest OPS in the league last season, that's excellent for a middle infielder. His last two seasons aren't as good as his younger years but offense is down overall in Japan recently. So he's putting up better than mediocre offensive numbers. Defense is still a huge unknown though.
This tells us nothing without context. First, I'd expect a Japan player making the leap to MLB to be at the top of the league in performance if he were to be a successful MLB player. Tsuyoshi Nishioka for example, was 5th in the league in OPS his last year in Japan. Second, "in the league" is misleading. He had the 4th highest OPS in the Japan League, not the entire Nippon Professional Baseball. The Japan League is a division of NPB comprised of just 6 teams. So I guess it'd be kinda like having the 4th highest OPS in the NL Central. In any case, performing well is still a positive sign for him. But a simple slash line is far from the only thing we should look at when judging his abilities. What are his skills like? What parts of his offensive tools would translate well to MLB? What was his hitting environment? Some failed prospect named Josh Whitehall lead the Japan League with a .890 OPS last year. But you wouldn't argue that Josh Whitehall should be immediately employable in MLB. Edit: Nakajima's posting fee last year should also be somewhat indicative of his value, the same way that signing bonuses are indicative of the quality of draftees. The highest bid for him was only 2.5 million. By comparison, Nishioka's posting fee was twice that, at 5.3 million.
Last edited 12/04/2012 9:28 AM by lenscrafters
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Posted: 12/04/2012 9:41 AM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
Speaking of context, Nishioka's last season in Japan was far better than any of his previous efforts and was aided by a .400 BABIP. And Josh Whitesell is a 1B who's hitting about as well in Japan as he did in AAA. It's not discounting of Japanese stats that's holding him back, as that same level of performance in AAA wasn't enough to land him a major league job. But, yeah, he's probably north of replacement level. The best place to start in evaluating a Japanese player is to look at his major league translations. These are crude, but they're better than just eyeballing the raw stats. Then there are the scouting reports on Nakajima's defense, which (from what limited I've seen) aren't very positive--they seem to suggest that he doesn't have the arm for SS but would be fine at 2B. |
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Posted: 12/04/2012 10:39 AM
Re: Who you want to play shortstop for the A's in 2013?
I suppose that based on the scouting reports, Nakajima might not be worse than Scutaro at SS. His MLE is more than respectable for a middle infielder. Given that 2B isn't exactly locked down, he could still end up being a solid player for the A's even if he can't handle SS defensively.
It appears the A's are going to have discussions with his agent today.
I think Drew is unlikely given the number of interested teams. Cleveland's asking price for Cabrera is too high. So, it's probably a choice between Nakajima and Escobar.
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