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Less than 24 hours...
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:00 PM
Less than 24 hours...
until we find out who won the BBWAA American League Manager of the Year award. I will say that the campaign here (pro-Melvin) and on the Orioles site (pro Showalter) has been pretty relentless by their fans. I have heard all the arguments in favor, and all I am going to say is that regardless of who wins it, they earned it.
I originally thought Showalter would have a slight advantage because of his time on the East Coast and with ESPN (east coast bias, if you will), but when Billy Beane won GM of the Year and Dan Duquette did not receive a single vote, I started to rethink that position.
Then I thought about the possibility that the voters by recognizing Beane might be saying that the guy responsible for the turnaround was Beane, not Melvin, and then I thought how often Manager of the Year and Exec of the Year went to the same team.
(Plus there is something to be said about over analysis)
I think MLB Network reveals the winner at 11:00 AM Pacific Time tomorrow. Whoever wins, hats off to them, the better to give a nod to the runner-up. Regardless of who that might be, they were also pretty deserving.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:16 PM
RE: Less than 24 hours...
I'm guessing that Showalter wins because not only did people not expect the Orioles to do well this year, they did it with a negative run differential for most of the year. And I think that will make people vote for Showalter over Melvin.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:55 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
I'm of the mindset Showalter wins as well.
I still think Bob Melvin deserves it. Not like Wieters and Adam Jones were unknown commodities that came out of no where.
Or that Showalter had an all rookie rotation come back and win the division.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:55 PM
RE: Less than 24 hours...
whobob wrote: I'm guessing that Showalter wins because not only did people not expect the Orioles to do well this year, they did it with a negative run differential for most of the year. And I think that will make people vote for Showalter over Melvin. Well, I'm betting that over all, the A's were expected to do worse than the O's. That said, re the voting on espn for all the winners, the fans across the country (obviously more easterners voted) overwhelmingly voted for Showalter; think Melvin got like 5%. In the end, the fans' votes don't count though. |
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- jbear
 - Arizona Rookie A's
- 47 posts this site
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:14 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
The East Coast bias will give it to Showalter. Unfortunately
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:26 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
winning 2nd wildcard vs winning AL West
AL West vs AL Eest- tougher division
the orioles had a negative run differential, but led mlb in 1 run/extra inning wins + having a lights out bullpen in later innings was a huge advantage
A's came into the yr with even lower expectations and had to deal with what experts considered the 2 best teams in mlb the rangers and angels preseason
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Posted: 11/12/2012 4:27 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
arly2380 wrote: winning 2nd wildcard vs winning AL West
AL West vs AL Eest- tougher division
the orioles had a negative run differential, but led mlb in 1 run/extra inning wins + having a lights out bullpen in later innings was a huge advantage
A's came into the yr with even lower expectations and had to deal with what experts considered the 2 best teams in mlb the rangers and angels preseason Thats true, but I'm betting the writers will look at the run differential and think that Showalter must have had a hand in it.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 10:42 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
whobob wrote:
arly2380 wrote: winning 2nd wildcard vs winning AL West
AL West vs AL Eest- tougher division
the orioles had a negative run differential, but led mlb in 1 run/extra inning wins + having a lights out bullpen in later innings was a huge advantage
A's came into the yr with even lower expectations and had to deal with what experts considered the 2 best teams in mlb the rangers and angels preseason Thats true, but I'm betting the writers will look at the run differential and think that Showalter must have had a hand in it. Well I hope the writers looked at more than run differential. Like, did any team have more platooning ballplayers than the A's? Unquestionably, Melvin did a stupendous job in handling his platooners. Not to mention the # of rookies coming and going ... 18 in all. And by the final month, they had an entire rookie starting staff excepting a handful of games at the start of the month and two superb rookie late inning relievers. They can vote Showalter in, but partial or not, I say Melvin was clearly this year's MOY. They can talk about the extra innings wins by the O's, but I'll take the A's 15 (14?) walkoffs over that any day. Beane, Melvin, A's players, IMO, had their most exciting season and most lovable team this year, since their Oakland arrival. And in the end, A's eked out more wins than O's and won their division in what turned out to be the toughest division in baseball, this year.
Last edited 11/12/2012 10:44 PM by oaklady
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Posted: 11/13/2012 6:05 AM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
I really don't understand the reasoning that it's the manager's doing when a team wins in spite of bad run differential- wouldn't that mean the team has actually been playing poorly and has been lucky? Doesn't seem like good managing to have your team play like crap and hope for the best. I think winning with unknown rookies making near the minimum but putting up a good run differential is a lot more suggestive of good managing, but that's just me.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 6:46 AM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
Neither team was expected to contend, and both made it to game 5 of the ALDS. That, in a nutshell, is why we are talking about them and their managers.
Both teams could have thrown in the towel at different times - the A's on June 1 when they had struggled through May, and the Orioles after blowing most of a 27-14 start - but neither did. Both teams had key players injured and key players who didn't produce as expected, yet they fought through it.
I don't envy the writers. They'll be splitting hairs to decide this one.
Too bad there aren't ties in baseball!
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Posted: 11/13/2012 9:03 AM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
asfanfirst wrote: I really don't understand the reasoning that it's the manager's doing when a team wins in spite of bad run differential- wouldn't that mean the team has actually been playing poorly and has been lucky? Doesn't seem like good managing to have your team play like crap and hope for the best. I think winning with unknown rookies making near the minimum but putting up a good run differential is a lot more suggestive of good managing, but that's just me. +1 |
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Posted: 11/13/2012 9:09 AM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
Jasoninittoirwinit wrote:
asfanfirst wrote: I really don't understand the reasoning that it's the manager's doing when a team wins in spite of bad run differential- wouldn't that mean the team has actually been playing poorly and has been lucky? Doesn't seem like good managing to have your team play like crap and hope for the best. I think winning with unknown rookies making near the minimum but putting up a good run differential is a lot more suggestive of good managing, but that's just me. +1 Ditto. To me it's a no brainer and yes, of course I'm partial, but the facts/stats don't lie. Not to mention Melvin has shown his genius with player respect and how well they play under his management skills. Also, however, kudos to Showalter because history shows he has had a myriad of problems with personnel, managing other teams. It is apparent he has worked hard to turn that around and succeeded.
Last edited 11/13/2012 9:15 AM by oaklady
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Posted: 11/13/2012 10:25 AM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
I take you back to 1979. Keith Hernandez and Willie Stargell shared the National League MVP award. So... there are ties in baseball!  oltrex wrote: Too bad there aren't ties in baseball! |
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Posted: 11/13/2012 1:32 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
My prediction is that the perception that Balt. made the playoffs in a division with NYY Bos and TBR outweighing all will be just too strong and BS will get it.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 1:38 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
AsAsAs wrote: My prediction is that the perception that Balt. made the playoffs in a division with NYY Bos and TBR outweighing all will be just too strong and BS will get it. Unfortunately, you're probably right, except that is a mis-perception. The facts and figures are before their eyes ... the AL West was the toughest and best division in not just the AL, but all of baseball, this year. Still, for some ... especially if biased ... the blinders never come off.  |
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Posted: 11/13/2012 1:45 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
Melissa is straight killing it on Twitter right now (https://twitter.com/oakclubhouse), in referencing that the A's winning percentage in 1 run games was .581, that they had a better bullpen era, and led the league in walk off wins. I also particularly love her comment that if we're going to decide this on arbitrary measures, the A's did take the season series from the Orioles, 5-4.
In watching commentary from Jayson Stark, he mentions how Showalter changed the culture of losing in the Orioles clubhouse and how they haven't had a winning record in 15 years, I'd argue that Melvin did much of the same. |
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Posted: 11/13/2012 1:50 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
sbathletic wrote:Melissa is straight killing it on Twitter right now (https://twitter.com/oakclubhouse), in referencing that the A's winning percentage in 1 run games was .581, that they had a better bullpen era, and led the league in walk off wins. I also particularly love her comment that if we're going to decide this on arbitrary measures, the A's did take the season series from the Orioles, 5-4.
In watching commentary from Jayson Stark, he mentions how Showalter changed the culture of losing in the Orioles clubhouse and how they haven't had a winning record in 15 years, I'd argue that Melvin did much of the same. The argument of Stark's has got to be the weakest I've ever heard when it comes to selecting MOY. And these guys think they're experts? That's a nother reason I watch MLBN over espn. Not to mention MLBN doesn't have Kruk or Sutcliffe. I assume Sutcliffe is still with them. |
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Posted: 11/13/2012 2:32 PM
Re: Less than 24 hours...
Last edited 11/13/2012 2:33 PM by Jasoninittoirwinit
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