Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
InboxChat RoomChat Room (0 fans in chatroom)
Post New Topic
< Prev.  Page of 35  Next >

Re: And for those dopes that are................................

Posted: 12/3/2007 5:47 PM

Re: And for those dopes that are................................ 


sound fundamentals... Santana has been excellent as a starter in the playoffs, and there is no way that the Yankees are better in 2008 with Hughes rather than Santana.

Posted: 12/3/2007 6:09 PM

Oh really....................................................... 


"Since Johan Santana became a starter regularly, and actually started in the postseason, his numbers in the playoffs are:

27.2 IP,
26 k, 8 bb
8.45 k/9
ERA 2.93"

I can't point to any one playoff pereformance that would indicate to me that he is worth a commitment of $20 million AND HUGHES and Cabrera and an additional prospect. 

And lets examine this proposed trade as it pertains to 2008:

You are NOT trading minor leaguers, you are trading two very young players who have gained valuable major league experience in Hughes and Cabrera. The now healthy Hughes will pitch in close approximation of Santana THIS YEAR, MARK IT DOWN! He dominates when he has his best stuff and pitches effectively on nights his best stuff isn't their, the definition of a legit. no. 1.

The third player will be a true prospect, the names most often mentioned are Horne and Gonzalez. Both are on the vurge of helping the big club through a call up or reenforcement trade.

Trade all that.......................................................................................................

If Hughes puts up numbers close to Santana, then the Yankees are worse off in 2008, because nearly everyone is underrating the value of Cabrera as a "pitchers best friend" in CF. The Yankees have stated it's back to Damon if Cabrera is gone. Horne may be awfully good, as well, in 2008. May be a great replacement for Joba in the now weakened pen. 

Santana benefitted greatly from having a great defensive centerfielder in Minnesota and can once more if he signs with the Yankees next year.

Posted: 12/3/2007 6:28 PM

And you are one of.............................................. 


the dopes I'm referring to. In october let's check back hear and see who was correct.

My prediction for 2008:

Santana is a (scouting scale 20-80) 74

Hughes is a 70

Cabreara, a defensive gem that continues to improve in all facets of the game, a 64

And Horne, makes a successful major league debut.

Now then, I've left nothing for interpratation.

And lets agree that the one who proves to be correct will have the last laugh at the expence of a extraordinarily simple minded dope.

Posted: 12/3/2007 6:39 PM

Re: And you are one of.......................................... 


Um. You are telling me that Phil Hughes, in 2008 will be better than Johan Santana in 2008.

The bottom line is, that Santana has posted an under 3 ERA as a starter in the postseason... And has been the best in baseball for several years now.

You aren't going to prove anyone wrong.

Posted: 12/3/2007 6:49 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 


Dude you could make an arugment to keep hughes on potential and a low-cost start that majority of the people on this board make and I respect thier opinion and can see thier view. However, to say that yanks are not better with santana next year is simply not true.
Avatar

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:10 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams discussing 


Santana's Agent Denies Report that Santana will not waive his no trade clause and denies report that he wants to play for an East coast team.

According to Tubby

Also, Cashman to speak with reporters soon.  Stay tuned boys and girls.

Last edited 12/3/2007 7:10 PM by jcpflames12

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:18 PM

NO.............................................................. 


"Um. You are telling me that Phil Hughes, in 2008 will be better than Johan Santana in 2008"

No, slick, I said he would be so close in performance to Santana, that the additional subtractions of Cabrera, and a ready for the show prospect such as Horne would make the Yankees worse off in 2008.

And if Santana's 2008 year matches his 2007 preformance, it is a distinct possibility that Hughes will be better in 2008. I actually give Santana the benefit of the doubt.

If I am correct and Hughes is indeed the type of pitcher who can have a first full season on the order of a Verlander, a Carmona, or a Bonderman, then you simply do not make this deal. It will be a net loss starting in 2008.

Time will tell.
Avatar

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:18 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 



ElMaestro wrote:
CHIYANKEE wrote:
Tazmania05 wrote: Buster Onley - Whispers at GM Meetings - Twins may hold on to Santana

http://spo...ngs

There are whispers that the Twins might decide to hold onto Johan Santana. With a healthy Francisco Liriano alongside him in the rotation, Minnesota would have a fearsome 1-2 punch. If the Twins do some big things in '08, they could find a way to re-sign Santana. If not, they could move him in July, as long as he decides to waive his no-trade clause, but that is no guarantee.

Do it and make your fans happy by trying to win in 2008.

Liriano and Johan will have to pitch for 0.90 ERA if they want to have a shot next year at the division.
yeah, they'll have to do some really big things to the tune of 150 million !!! LOL !!!

"If you were sitting out past the 457 marker in left center field in the last row, in the bleachers and he started to walk to the plate,you knew who he was, you didn't need mel allen to tell you !!!"  

  • NYYFAN
  • Member
  • 1 posts this site

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:33 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 


AFTER READING ALL THE POSTS HERE I WAS GETTING CONVINCED THAT IF WE TRADE HUGHES ,MELKY +  THAT WE ARE GIVING UP TO MUCH, AND THEN I WENT TO THE MINNESOTA BOARD AND WHAT A SHOCKER THEY THINK THAT THEY ARE NOT GETTING ENOUGH THE CONSENSUS THERE  IS THEY SHOULDN'T DO THE DEAL WELL I THINK THAT WHEN YOUR MAKING A TRADE AND NOBODY IS HAPPY THEN ITS A GOOD TRADE!!
Avatar

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:41 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 



mrG777 wrote:
ElMaestro wrote:
CHIYANKEE wrote:
Tazmania05 wrote: Buster Onley - Whispers at GM Meetings - Twins may hold on to Santana

http://spo...ngs

There are whispers that the Twins might decide to hold onto Johan Santana. With a healthy Francisco Liriano alongside him in the rotation, Minnesota would have a fearsome 1-2 punch. If the Twins do some big things in '08, they could find a way to re-sign Santana. If not, they could move him in July, as long as he decides to waive his no-trade clause, but that is no guarantee.

Do it and make your fans happy by trying to win in 2008.

Liriano and Johan will have to pitch for 0.90 ERA if they want to have a shot next year at the division.
yeah, they'll have to do some really big things to the tune of 150 million !!! LOL !!!

You Guys are willing to Give Roger "Rocket" Clemens 28 Million for 1/2 a season last year. At the same time are seemingly propostrously opposed to giving Santana 20-23,24 Million a year for as long as you want him.

It's only fair for the Twins to get Phill Lughes, Melky Cabrera, and Horne/Tabata/Jackson in return

For the Best pitcher in baseball

What? What?

A-Rod's 275+ million sells tickets, helps you get to postseason
Johan's 140+ million wins championships
as I'm sure most of you know by now


in any respect good luck to ya!



Top 11 Prospects?

1.Sano 2.Arcia 3.Rosario 4.Hicks 5.Hendriks 6.Benson 7.Salcedo 8.Michael 9.Kepler 10.Wimmers 11.Gibson/Dozier
----------------------------------------

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:42 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 



JoeBee wrote: You want to really get out of it with  possible chance to have somw dignity but keep the lines open, put out word that after tonight hughes is off the table and offer Kennedy, Cabrera, Gonzalez, and Marquez if they want later in the week.

That is a great idea!  Phil should and will be pulled tonight.  Let the twins laugh all they want they are getting screwed as they will only get draft picks now.

 

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:47 PM

Re: And for those dopes that are................................ 



nick2slick wrote: sound fundamentals... Santana has been excellent as a starter in the playoffs, and there is no way that the Yankees are better in 2008 with Hughes rather than Santana.

It's no just Hughes but also melky and Horne.  I think when you take into account all 3 players the yanks may very well be better off not making the trade.

 

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:47 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 


Hank is a blowhard; his words and his deadlines mean nothing. Additionally, it appears to me that the Yankees are BEGGING the Twins to take Phil off their hands. Tom Verduccin was on WEEI in Boston today and said he thinks (I read this on another board) that the Yankees believe Hughes is at best a #2. I think the Yankees are morons, but I guess that's besides the point. If the Yankees really included Phil in trade talks only reluctantly then why didn't they pull him off the table once Andy told them he was returning? No, the Yankees don't love Phil and they will deal him for a bag of balls at the earliest opportunity......Hank needs to pipe down.
KennyH123 wrote:
Tazmania05 wrote: John Perotto of BP adds to the same story - Santana may stay put

http://www.baseballprospe...cleid=6967

There is a growing sense around the various lobbies and atriums of the Opryland Hotel and Resort that Johan Santana may not be going to either the New York Yankees or the Boston Redsox.

The two superpowers are trying to trade for the Twins' ace left-hander, and the Yankees want an answer by the end of the day. If the Twins and Yankees don't reach a deal, there is an increasing chance that the Red Sox will pull their various offers off the table and keep Jacoby Ellsbury and Jon Lester.

If that is the case, Minnesota would be forced to trade Santana somewhere else for what would likely be a lesser package, or just hang on to him for the 2008 season, take a run at one more American League Central title, and then lose him as a free agent next winter, and settling for the two draft picks they'd get as compensation. Santana has said he will not waive his no-trade clause during the season, which rules out a deadline deal in late July.

Comment:

Mission accomplished for Theo I guess. If Boston really badly wanted Santana, and Minnesotta had their original offer on the table, why would they pull out.

I have posted from Day-1, only Yanks are real contenders.

Nobody in their right mind would give up 3-A prospects and dole out 140-150 million long term deal for a pitcher who will be 29 on opening day.

Hank's big mouth may have saved Hughes for us.

However, right now I can see Billy Beane smoking a Cigar, smiling and rubbing his Thumbs........

Remember blabbering Hank just said last night that SANTANA is the only player in baseball he'd trade Hughes or Cabrera for. No one else.

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:50 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 



Tazmania05 wrote: John Perotto of BP adds to the same story - Santana may stay put

http://www.baseballprospe...cleid=6967

There is a growing sense around the various lobbies and atriums of the Opryland Hotel and Resort that Johan Santana may not be going to either the New York Yankees or the Boston Redsox.

The two superpowers are trying to trade for the Twins' ace left-hander, and the Yankees want an answer by the end of the day. If the Twins and Yankees don't reach a deal, there is an increasing chance that the Red Sox will pull their various offers off the table and keep Jacoby Ellsbury and Jon Lester.

If that is the case, Minnesota would be forced to trade Santana somewhere else for what would likely be a lesser package, or just hang on to him for the 2008 season, take a run at one more American League Central title, and then lose him as a free agent next winter, and settling for the two draft picks they'd get as compensation. Santana has said he will not waive his no-trade clause during the season, which rules out a deadline deal in late July.

Comment:

Mission accomplished for Theo I guess. If Boston really badly wanted Santana, and Minnesotta had their original offer on the table, why would they pull out.

I have posted from Day-1, only Yanks are real contenders.

Nobody in their right mind would give up 3-A prospects and dole out 140-150 million long term deal for a pitcher who will be 29 on opening day.

Hank's big mouth may have saved Hughes for us.

However, right now I can see Billy Beane smoking a Cigar, smiling and rubbing his Thumbs........
This would be the best posibility for the yanks and bad for sox and twins, I love it.  Johan a yank in 09 for money and draft picks and we keep the youngsters.

 

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:31 PM

Re: And all these dopes......................................... 



nick2slick wrote: Since Johan Santana became a starter regularly, and actually started in the postseason, his numbers in the playoffs are:

27.2 IP,
26 k, 8 bb
8.45 k/9
ERA 2.93

That doesn't look like "struggle" to me.

He started v Yanks in 2003 in 2 games and wasn't very good in 2 outing he pitched a total of 7.7 innings with a 7.07 era which include giving up 6 runs in 3.2 innings

The fact is overall he has pitched up and down in the post season but was good in 04 v Yanks and 06 v A's
 His overall record is 1-4 in the post season and his only win was 1.2 innings pitched in relief
However he has pitched good enough to win just was a victim of lousy support in 04 and 06.
.........................................................................................................................................
I still hope we keep Hughes and don't get Santana , I'd rather be sorry we didn't get Santana than sorry we let a very promising 21 year old get away without ever finding out his potential.
Playing for the Yanks is getting very silly 21 year pitchers are expected to be lights out Santana at 21 wasn't,  Bedard and Haren weren't even in the majors until they were 23 and still weren't lights out.
God forbid Joba goes 8-10 i guess he will be a bum . the only people more impatient than Hank S are NYY fans I hate to see any of the kids go Please teacher give the kids a chance ....
Avatar

Posted: 12/3/2007 8:37 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 



Betsypaige wrote:  Tom Verduccin was on WEEI in Boston today and said he thinks (I read this on another board) that the Yankees believe Hughes is at best a #2.

AA LEVELS
Player Year Lg Age Level ERA IP BB9 K9 WHIP
Hughes 2006 East 20 AA 2.25 116 2.48 10.71 0.91
Prior 2002 Sou 21 AA 2.6 34.2 2.6 14.28 1.04
Liriano 2004 East 20 AA 3.18 39.2 3.86 11.12 1.56
Liriano 2005 East 21 AA 3.64 76.2 3.05 10.8 1.25
Kazmir 2004 East 20 AA 1.73 26 3.12 10.04 0.96
Kazmir 2004 Sou 20 AA 1.44 25 3.96 8.64 1
Martinez 1991 Tex 19 AA 1.76 76.2 3.64 8.69 1.15

Posted: 12/3/2007 9:36 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 


hmmmm, alls quiet on the santana front...interesting, wondering what that might mean
http://www.yankeesource.com/images/mrgsig.png
Avatar

Posted: 12/3/2007 9:38 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 



ggilpereault wrote: hmmmm, alls quiet on the santana front...interesting, wondering what that might mean
quiet before the storm i presume lol.




Avatar

Posted: 12/3/2007 9:38 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 


hopefully means hes still a Twin or a Toledo Mud Hen.
ggilpereault wrote: hmmmm, alls quiet on the santana front...interesting, wondering what that might mean
Avatar

Posted: 12/3/2007 9:39 PM

Re: Yanks considered frontrunner for santana... Teams 



ggilpereault wrote: hmmmm, alls quiet on the santana front...interesting, wondering what that might mean
It does make people curious when trade talks like this have been quiet for a while. According to a Twins beatwriter, the Twins were going to sit down in person with Brian Cashman at some point tonight, but I haven't heard anything past that.

They were also going to try and sit down with the Red Sox as well.
Post New Topic
< Prev.  Page of 35  Next >