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ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN

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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:10 PM

ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


Pineda got Bryce Harper on a strikeout in the 3rd inning. He's gone 3 IP, 2 H 1 ER 0 BB 3 K so far.


Old friend Chien-Ming Wang was pitching for the Nationals. Unfortunately, a somewhat familiar scene to Yankee fans, as he looked to injure himself during a non-pitching maneuver. Left hamgstring strain word is for CMW. Hope he's okay.

Last edited 3/15/2012 2:21 PM by maizeyanks

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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:26 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



maizeyanks wrote:


Old friend Chien-Ming Wang was pitching for the Nationals. Unfortunately, a somewhat familiar scene to Yankee fans, as he looked to injure himself during a non-pitching maneuver. Left hamgstring strain word is for CMW. Hope he's okay.
Poor Wang, the only luck he seems to have is bad luck.  pirate
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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:27 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


3.2 IP 4 H 1 BB 2 ER and 4 K for Pineda. Looked sharp mostly.

Last edited 3/15/2012 2:28 PM by maizeyanks

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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:33 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



maizeyanks wrote: 3.2 IP 4 H 1 BB 2 ER and 4 K for Pineda. Looked sharp mostly.
The press will all over him for not being able to finish the 4th inning.
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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:36 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



maizeyanks wrote: Old friend Chien-Ming Wang was pitching for the Nationals. Unfortunately, a somewhat familiar scene to Yankee fans, as he looked to injure himself during a non-pitching maneuver. Left hamgstring strain word is for CMW. Hope he's okay.
Chien-Ming Wang stumbled while covering first base. He did an awkward roll over the bag and was removed from the game.


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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:37 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


UPDATE, 1:55 p.m.: Two out walk and stolen base by Jones, now an infield single for Dickerson. Runners at the corners for Bill Hall.


UPDATE, 1:56 p.m.:
Two-run double off the right-field wall for Hall. It’s a 2-0 Yankees lead in the top of the third.


UPDATE, 2:04 p.m.:
Double into the corner with a runner at first base … It was the flip play all over again, and Pena was in position, but he didn’t have to cut off the throw. The runner scored anyway and it’s a 2-1 Yankees lead. Back-to-back hits off Pineda this inning.


UPDATE, 2:10 p.m.:
Pineda strands a runner in the third and it’s still 2-1 Yankees heading into the fourth. Pineda should have one more inning. No radar here at the stadium. If you’re watching on MLB Network you might know more about Pineda’s velocity than anyone here in the press box.


UPDATE, 2:17 p.m
.: Ramiro Pena being helped off the field after sliding into second base on a stolen base attempt. He seemed to hit the bag awkwardly. Looked like he might have twisted his ankle, but it just happened and I don’t have replay. I’ll obviously update later. Have to think Pena would be in the mix for a roster spot if
Eduardo Nunez’s bruised hand is worse than expected.

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/


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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:41 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



AcuraMan wrote:



UPDATE, 2:04 p.m.:
Double into the corner with a runner at first base … It was the flip play all over again, and Pena was in position, but he didn’t have to cut off the throw. The runner scored anyway and it’s a 2-1 Yankees lead. Back-to-back hits off Pineda this inning.


Bobby Valentine says they never practice this!
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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:50 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


MicroJoe breaking out the IBB in the second week of ST.  He is in mid-season micro-form.
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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:56 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


Pineda topped out at 92MPH and averaged 90MPH. For a guy who averaged 94 MPH last year, where did the other miles go. Do we have to deal with phantom velo drops every year? I wouldn't be frustated but I lost Jesus Montero for this guy.

Last edited 3/15/2012 3:11 PM by rpillai

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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:14 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


What is CC throwing this year? He never tops out until the weather warms up. Why the big concern with Pineda's velocity is beyond me, especially if he's working on a perfecting a new pitch..ludicrous

Also, I blame Cashman for Wang landing on the bag incorrectly.


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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:26 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


UPDATE, 3:16 p.m.: Sac fly has the Nationals in the lead 3-2 heading into the seventh. Still no word on Ramiro Pena. Jayson Nix just led off the inning with a single.

UPDATE, 3:20 p.m.: Jose Gil is really having a great camp. He just singled in the tying run, took second on the throw home and now Doug Bernier is up with no outs and a chance to put the Yankees in the lead. Gil really has almost no prospect status, but he’s hit really well these past few weeks.


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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:47 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



AcuraMan wrote: UPDATE, 3:16 p.m.: Sac fly has the Nationals in the lead 3-2 heading into the seventh. Still no word on Ramiro Pena. Jayson Nix just led off the inning with a single.

UPDATE, 3:20 p.m.: Jose Gil is really having a great camp. He just singled in the tying run, took second on the throw home and now Doug Bernier is up with no outs and a chance to put the Yankees in the lead. Gil really has almost no prospect status, but he’s hit really well these past few weeks.
Does anyone know how good is Gil as a catcher?
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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:52 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


Pineda's Velo down, results OK

The initial seven batters Michael Pineda faced all were sent back to the dugout. In the first, Pineda struck out two of his first three batters. He showed a nasty slider and some solid changes.

So there were some nice signs from his 3 2/3 innings of two-run, four-hit ball against the National in Viera. He struck out four and walked one. He threw 65 pitches, 41 of which were strikes.

But there was also this: Scouts behind home plate had Pineda's velocity at mostly 90-92.

When Pineda dominated in the first half of last year, he threw his fastball in the mid-90s.Last spring, at this time, Pineda was throwing 95-98 and his change-up was at 88.

And there was the fact that after giving up a bomb of an RBI double to Adam LaRoche into right center in the fourth, he walked Jayson Werth. This resulted in Joe Girardi pulling Pineda before he finished his fourth inning.

It is the second consecutive start that Pineda has not completed his allotted amount of innings. (He was at 65 pitches and the plan for him to be around 60.)

Before LaRoche's long shot, there was the run he gave up in the third when No. 9 batter, Jhonatan Solano, nailed an RBI double into right.

Girardi is stating to judge his starters now and Pineda is going to have to outpitch Phil Hughes and Freddy Garcia to have a spot in the rotation to begin the season. If not, he very well could be at Triple-A, which could allow him to lower expectations so he can deal with New York


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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:58 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


It's a big deal because he was throwing mid 90's last year at this time and he slowed in the 2nd half of last year.  Same thing as Hughes 2 years ago.  Slowed down in the 2nd half, velocity was down 2-3 MPH and a little out of shape.  It is always a concern for a young pitcher. 
AcuraMan wrote: What is CC throwing this year? He never tops out until the weather warms up. Why the big concern with Pineda's velocity is beyond me, especially if he's working on a perfecting a new pitch..ludicrous

Also, I blame Cashman for Wang landing on the bag incorrectly.
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Posted: 3/15/2012 4:31 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



Bob420 wrote: It's a big deal because he was throwing mid 90's last year at this time and he slowed in the 2nd half of last year.  Same thing as Hughes 2 years ago.  Slowed down in the 2nd half, velocity was down 2-3 MPH and a little out of shape.  It is always a concern for a young pitcher. 
AcuraMan wrote: What is CC throwing this year? He never tops out until the weather warms up. Why the big concern with Pineda's velocity is beyond me, especially if he's working on a perfecting a new pitch..ludicrous

Also, I blame Cashman for Wang landing on the bag incorrectly.
Its normal growing pains of young pitching.

He Amy Ha
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Posted: 3/15/2012 4:33 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


I hope so, I want him closer to 2011 than Jamie Moyer working on a good changeup lol. I still love the trade but it's frustrating to see his velocity down this much. He's effective with low velocity so that's a good sign.
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Posted: 3/15/2012 4:43 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



AcuraMan wrote:

Pineda's Velo down, results OK

The initial seven batters Michael Pineda faced all were sent back to the dugout. In the first, Pineda struck out two of his first three batters. He showed a nasty slider and some solid changes.

So there were some nice signs from his 3 2/3 innings of two-run, four-hit ball against the National in Viera. He struck out four and walked one. He threw 65 pitches, 41 of which were strikes.

But there was also this: Scouts behind home plate had Pineda's velocity at mostly 90-92.

When Pineda dominated in the first half of last year, he threw his fastball in the mid-90s.Last spring, at this time, Pineda was throwing 95-98 and his change-up was at 88.

And there was the fact that after giving up a bomb of an RBI double to Adam LaRoche into right center in the fourth, he walked Jayson Werth. This resulted in Joe Girardi pulling Pineda before he finished his fourth inning.

It is the second consecutive start that Pineda has not completed his allotted amount of innings. (He was at 65 pitches and the plan for him to be around 60.)

Before LaRoche's long shot, there was the run he gave up in the third when No. 9 batter, Jhonatan Solano, nailed an RBI double into right.

Girardi is stating to judge his starters now and Pineda is going to have to outpitch Phil Hughes and Freddy Garcia to have a spot in the rotation to begin the season. If not, he very well could be at Triple-A, which could allow him to lower expectations so he can deal with New York
Andrew Marchand cannot make me care about this.
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Posted: 3/15/2012 6:16 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



Pineda said he’s surprised at how much he’s been asked about his fastball velocity. Girardi called it good training for the media experience in New York.

“He was up to 92 today,” Girardi said. “I know that’s going to be talked about a lot. It’s his third start. We still have time to get his fastball where we need it to be. Because of what we went through with Hughes, I think everybody is much more concerned about velocity this year than we were in the past. Power pitchers, over the years, have taken a while to get going. I hope it continues to improve, but that’s just something we have to wait and see and evaluate.”

Said Pineda: “I know I haven’t thrown my fastball (like) last year, but my fastball is coming. More throwing in the game, my fastball is coming.”
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/




If i remember correctly, Pineda talked last week also about being more diligent and pacing himself in spring in order to stay strong and fresh.

EDIT: He talked about it here after his previous start: http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201...ks-up-slightly/



So that could be part of why his velo is not 95-98 mph this spring at this stage. Basically its pretty silly if you ask me. If he's averaging 88-92 mph come June and July, i think there's some merit but this seems to be one of those mid-spring training stories that these journalists need to hang on to in order to get page views and fill paper space.


Welcome to NY kid, this is what its gonna be like after every start.

Last edited 3/15/2012 6:24 PM by maizeyanks

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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:25 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


I read an article... I forget where, suggesting that early in games, Pineda sits in the lower 90s and dials it up more in the later innings... trying to save his stuff.  Maybe he's trying to save some velocity so that he pitches like he did last year in the first half of the season, all season.  

Found it, it was linked from an article on the LoHud blog...

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs...duced-velocity/

A quote from the article if you don't feel like reading it.. to get this gist...

As the 2011 season wore on, Pineda decided that it wasn’t in his best interests to come out firing at full velocity from the first pitch. He wanted to be more efficient early in games, so rather than coming out and throwing 97 and striking everyone out, he decided to ease off the fastball in the first inning or two and try to get some quick outs on the ground.

For instance, here are the first 10 pitches from his Pitch F/x log during his August 21st start against Tampa Bay from last year.

Fastball: 89.2
Fastball: 90.2
Fastball: 90.3
Fastball: 91.0
Change-Up: 85.5
Fastball: 93.9
Fastball: 91.8
Slider: 83.8
Slider: 83.6
Fastball: 93.7

He didn’t crack 94, and the average velocity was just over 91. The results were still fine, as he retired the side in order in the first inning, including getting two strikeouts, but the velocity wasn’t what he had shown earlier in the year. Later in the game, however, he was sitting 94-95 with regularity, and he finished the day with six innings pitched, allowing just six hits, no walks, and five strikeouts. It took him 94 pitches to throw those six innings.



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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:41 PM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


Oh... these people at ESPN are concerned with Halladays velocity too..

espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/sto...laday-says-fine


Just what they write about this time of year I guess..
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Posted: 3/15/2012 8:16 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



GreatFatness wrote:
AcuraMan wrote:

Pineda's Velo down, results OK

The initial seven batters Michael Pineda faced all were sent back to the dugout. In the first, Pineda struck out two of his first three batters. He showed a nasty slider and some solid changes.

So there were some nice signs from his 3 2/3 innings of two-run, four-hit ball against the National in Viera. He struck out four and walked one. He threw 65 pitches, 41 of which were strikes.

But there was also this: Scouts behind home plate had Pineda's velocity at mostly 90-92.

When Pineda dominated in the first half of last year, he threw his fastball in the mid-90s.Last spring, at this time, Pineda was throwing 95-98 and his change-up was at 88.

And there was the fact that after giving up a bomb of an RBI double to Adam LaRoche into right center in the fourth, he walked Jayson Werth. This resulted in Joe Girardi pulling Pineda before he finished his fourth inning.

It is the second consecutive start that Pineda has not completed his allotted amount of innings. (He was at 65 pitches and the plan for him to be around 60.)

Before LaRoche's long shot, there was the run he gave up in the third when No. 9 batter, Jhonatan Solano, nailed an RBI double into right.

Girardi is stating to judge his starters now and Pineda is going to have to outpitch Phil Hughes and Freddy Garcia to have a spot in the rotation to begin the season. If not, he very well could be at Triple-A, which could allow him to lower expectations so he can deal with New York
Andrew Marchand cannot make me care about this.
More importantly, or so I think, Pineda has imprived the pitch the Yankees wanted him to improve.  From Chad Jennings' blog, here is Pineda and Martin on Pineda's pitching today:

“Awesome,” he said. “My changeup today, ooph, it was great.”

 

That’s right. Ooph. Pineda needed some sort of sound for emphasis, and he went with ooph. The changeup is the pitch the Yankees have asked Pineda to improve, and it’s looking more like a legitimate weapon. Both Pineda and Joe Girardi estimated that he threw at least 10 of them today.

 

“It was really good,” Russell Martin said. “He got a bunch of strikes on it, a bunch of swings and misses, got a punchout and a first-pitch ground ball to second base. A lot of positive things coming out of that pitch today. … When you work on something and you see results quickly, it’s encouraging. I think he’s happy with that.”

 

There’s no denying that Pineda is happy. His fastball was once again in the low 90s, but he seems perfectly unconcerned about that. His slider is beginning to look as good as advertised, but that’s to be expected.

 

“That’s my baby,” Pineda said. “I threw a very good slider today, but I’m very excited because my changeup was great. I threw a lot of changeups today and felt comfortable. … Last year, I didn’t throw a lot of changeups, so this year, I’m focused a little more on my changeup and making a good pitch all the time. I’m not worried about my fastball. I don’t know how my fastball is right now, but it feels good.”

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Posted: 3/15/2012 9:05 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



jwildfogel wrote:
GreatFatness wrote:
AcuraMan wrote:

Pineda's Velo down, results OK

The initial seven batters Michael Pineda faced all were sent back to the dugout. In the first, Pineda struck out two of his first three batters. He showed a nasty slider and some solid changes.

So there were some nice signs from his 3 2/3 innings of two-run, four-hit ball against the National in Viera. He struck out four and walked one. He threw 65 pitches, 41 of which were strikes.

But there was also this: Scouts behind home plate had Pineda's velocity at mostly 90-92.

When Pineda dominated in the first half of last year, he threw his fastball in the mid-90s.Last spring, at this time, Pineda was throwing 95-98 and his change-up was at 88.

And there was the fact that after giving up a bomb of an RBI double to Adam LaRoche into right center in the fourth, he walked Jayson Werth. This resulted in Joe Girardi pulling Pineda before he finished his fourth inning.

It is the second consecutive start that Pineda has not completed his allotted amount of innings. (He was at 65 pitches and the plan for him to be around 60.)

Before LaRoche's long shot, there was the run he gave up in the third when No. 9 batter, Jhonatan Solano, nailed an RBI double into right.

Girardi is stating to judge his starters now and Pineda is going to have to outpitch Phil Hughes and Freddy Garcia to have a spot in the rotation to begin the season. If not, he very well could be at Triple-A, which could allow him to lower expectations so he can deal with New York
Andrew Marchand cannot make me care about this.
More importantly, or so I think, Pineda has imprived the pitch the Yankees wanted him to improve.  From Chad Jennings' blog, here is Pineda and Martin on Pineda's pitching today:

“Awesome,” he said. “My changeup today, ooph, it was great.”

 

That’s right. Ooph. Pineda needed some sort of sound for emphasis, and he went with ooph. The changeup is the pitch the Yankees have asked Pineda to improve, and it’s looking more like a legitimate weapon. Both Pineda and Joe Girardi estimated that he threw at least 10 of them today.

 

“It was really good,” Russell Martin said. “He got a bunch of strikes on it, a bunch of swings and misses, got a punchout and a first-pitch ground ball to second base. A lot of positive things coming out of that pitch today. … When you work on something and you see results quickly, it’s encouraging. I think he’s happy with that.”

 

There’s no denying that Pineda is happy. His fastball was once again in the low 90s, but he seems perfectly unconcerned about that. His slider is beginning to look as good as advertised, but that’s to be expected.

 

“That’s my baby,” Pineda said. “I threw a very good slider today, but I’m very excited because my changeup was great. I threw a lot of changeups today and felt comfortable. … Last year, I didn’t throw a lot of changeups, so this year, I’m focused a little more on my changeup and making a good pitch all the time. I’m not worried about my fastball. I don’t know how my fastball is right now, but it feels good.”

I like his attitude so far, he seems very level headed. He's only young, everyone just has to let him do his thing and develop at his own pace.
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Posted: 3/15/2012 10:56 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



AcuraMan wrote:
maizeyanks wrote: Old friend Chien-Ming Wang was pitching for the Nationals. Unfortunately, a somewhat familiar scene to Yankee fans, as he looked to injure himself during a non-pitching maneuver. Left hamgstring strain word is for CMW. Hope he's okay.
Chien-Ming Wang stumbled while covering first base. He did an awkward roll over the bag and was removed from the game.


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Posted: 3/16/2012 1:05 AM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



rpillai wrote: Pineda topped out at 92MPH and averaged 90MPH. For a guy who averaged 94 MPH last year, where did the other miles go. Do we have to deal with phantom velo drops every year? I wouldn't be frustated but I lost Jesus Montero for this guy.
Its still early.
If velo were everything, Kyle Farnsworth would be on his way to the Hall of Fame and Gregg Maddux wouldn't be.
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Posted: 3/16/2012 1:08 AM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


Anybody have visions of Pineda being the next Joba Chamberlain? Flame thrower with excellent slider who flames out? On the flip side, is there any hope we can see Jobas stuff return and a return of him to the rotation... if not with the Yanks, for someone else? I like Joba a lot and hope if he doesn't get the opportunity to succeed in NY, he gets it else where. I think the kid has major talent and the Yankees ____ed him up
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Posted: 3/16/2012 2:05 AM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



sierchio wrote: Anybody have visions of Pineda being the next Joba Chamberlain? Flame thrower with excellent slider who flames out?
Nope, I'm ready to enjoy watching him in the season, he's already shown he can strike guys out and keep them off the base paths at good rates in his rookie season. I've got just as much confidence in him that I did with Joba if he would of been given additional time as a starter, that they  become top notch starting pitchers. It comes with the nature of developing younger players. It's not always easy sailing and we should all have an understanding that yeah, Pineda is ridiculously talented, but there is also still space there that needs to be polished and like it or not, some bumps are coming along the way.

Also here's his split numbers from last year, I think people will find that his first half and second half weren't as drastic from one another as lazy journalists and haters would like to suggest.

http://www.fangraphs.com/stats...amp;season=2011

Last edited 3/16/2012 2:13 AM by maizeyanks

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Posted: 3/16/2012 7:43 AM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



jwildfogel wrote:

That’s right. Ooph. Pineda needed some sort of sound for emphasis, and he went with ooph.

Andrew Marchand reports that Pineda's "ooph" still needs a little work and so he may start the season in AAA, standing in the clubhouse talking to a scarecrow with a tape recorder in its hand, saying "ooph" repeatedly.  This, by the way, is the most useful thing Andrew Marchand has ever "reported".
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Posted: 3/16/2012 7:54 AM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



sierchio wrote: Anybody have visions of Pineda being the next Joba Chamberlain? Flame thrower with excellent slider who flames out? On the flip side, is there any hope we can see Jobas stuff return and a return of him to the rotation... if not with the Yanks, for someone else? I like Joba a lot and hope if he doesn't get the opportunity to succeed in NY, he gets it else where. I think the kid has major talent and the Yankees ____ed him up
The rehab from this injury would have been the chance to convert Chamberlain back to a starter and, for whatever reason, they didn't do it.  At this point, I have to presume there's a reason for this which isn't obvious because he certainly was good enough as a starter and certainly would be more valuable in that role.  So, putting that aside, I am just looking forward to seeing him pitch again.  I wasn't betting on him putting in the work necessary to rehab from an injury like that but it looks like he's done that and more.
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Posted: 3/16/2012 9:20 AM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


So is getting injured and missing time.  That doens't mean it isn't something to watch or be concerned about.  If he develops a good change, he doesn't need to throw 95-97 MPH.  However, he needs to be in the 92-94 range consistently.  If he isn't, then there is probably something wrong with his shoulder or arm.  He doesn't need to be there right now but he needs to be when the season starts.
michcusejoe5 wrote:
Bob420 wrote: It's a big deal because he was throwing mid 90's last year at this time and he slowed in the 2nd half of last year.  Same thing as Hughes 2 years ago.  Slowed down in the 2nd half, velocity was down 2-3 MPH and a little out of shape.  It is always a concern for a young pitcher. 
AcuraMan wrote: What is CC throwing this year? He never tops out until the weather warms up. Why the big concern with Pineda's velocity is beyond me, especially if he's working on a perfecting a new pitch..ludicrous

Also, I blame Cashman for Wang landing on the bag incorrectly.
Its normal growing pains of young pitching.
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Posted: 3/16/2012 10:31 AM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


Using this graph and approximating here is what Pineda's game by game fastball averages looked like.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch...=P&pitch=FA

1. 94 MPH
2. 96 MPH
3. 94 MPH
4. 95 MPH
5. 95 MPH
6. 97 MPH
7. 95 MPH
8. 94 MPH
9. 94 MPH
10. 95 MPH
11. 94 MPH
12. 95 MPH
13. 95 MPH
14. 94 MPH

15. 93 MPH
16. 94 MPH
17. 94 MPH
18. 94 MPH
19. 96 MPH
20. 94 MPH
21. 95 MPH
22. 93 MPH
23. 94 MPH
24. 92 MPH
25. 93 MPH
26. 93 MPH
27. 94 MPH
28. 91 MPH

So in the first half (his first 14 starts), Pineda's avg. MPH was approximately 94.8 MPH. In the second half (his last 14 starts), Pineda's avg. MPH was approximately 93.6 MPH. These are very rough numbers but I expect that they should be close. Approx. 1 MPH difference for a 22 year old starter who has never pitched more than 25 games in a season or 139 innings (Note: harder/more stressful innings too coming against MLB quality hitting rather than AA/AAA bats). So those who are justifying the concern over his ST velocity by noting his "hitting a wall" in the 2nd half, did not do their full research. Probably saw some dopey article pointing out his last start, a lone start, where his velocity was down and wrapped that into some wild premature concern over velocity on March 16th. Was his performance impressive in the 2nd half? No not particularly but to say it was because his velocity took some sort of significant nosedive is just flat out wrong.

Others may note his velocity last spring and early on in 2011. I think it should be noted that he was not a lock to make Seattle's rotation. He only had 12 AAA starts under his belt in 2010 and could have easily started the year in AAA to get more work in before becoming a full blown MLB starter for a team that was highly unlikely to contend last year. For a kid who is trying to make the team is may be in his best interest to really gas it up in ST and early in the year in order to prove/show something to the decision makers. This Spring is a completely different ballgame for Pineda. He is established as a Major League starter, and a successful one at that, with a rotation spot 95% locked up. To not use this spring to work on improving other aspects of his game (what would overdoing it out of the gate and gassing it in the first half of March even prove?) would be foolish on both his and the Yankees part.


He Amy Ha

Last edited 3/16/2012 10:33 AM by michcusejoe5

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Posted: 3/16/2012 11:22 AM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


Most of what you are saying is what would concern me.   Young pitcher, pitching more innings than he is used to and doing it at the major league level, shows a little fatigue down the stretch and then has less velocity to start the year the following season. 

The velocity on his fastball in his last 5 starts was down over 2 MPH.  He didn't have a 5 game stretch that low all season.    I am not saying there is something wrong with his arm but there is some cause for concern.  We will see how it progresses.  If we start to see some 95-97 numbers pop up, then there is less worry but to dismiss the low readings at this point is silly.  He might be fine but this pattern has certainly played out before. 
michcusejoe5 wrote:

Using this graph and approximating here is what Pineda's game by game fastball averages looked like.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch...=P&pitch=FA

1. 94 MPH
2. 96 MPH
3. 94 MPH
4. 95 MPH
5. 95 MPH
6. 97 MPH
7. 95 MPH
8. 94 MPH
9. 94 MPH
10. 95 MPH
11. 94 MPH
12. 95 MPH
13. 95 MPH
14. 94 MPH

15. 93 MPH
16. 94 MPH
17. 94 MPH
18. 94 MPH
19. 96 MPH
20. 94 MPH
21. 95 MPH
22. 93 MPH
23. 94 MPH
24. 92 MPH
25. 93 MPH
26. 93 MPH
27. 94 MPH
28. 91 MPH

So in the first half (his first 14 starts), Pineda's avg. MPH was approximately 94.8 MPH. In the second half (his last 14 starts), Pineda's avg. MPH was approximately 93.6 MPH. These are very rough numbers but I expect that they should be close. Approx. 1 MPH difference for a 22 year old starter who has never pitched more than 25 games in a season or 139 innings (Note: harder/more stressful innings too coming against MLB quality hitting rather than AA/AAA bats). So those who are justifying the concern over his ST velocity by noting his "hitting a wall" in the 2nd half, did not do their full research. Probably saw some dopey article pointing out his last start, a lone start, where his velocity was down and wrapped that into some wild premature concern over velocity on March 16th. Was his performance impressive in the 2nd half? No not particularly but to say it was because his velocity took some sort of significant nosedive is just flat out wrong.

Others may note his velocity last spring and early on in 2011. I think it should be noted that he was not a lock to make Seattle's rotation. He only had 12 AAA starts under his belt in 2010 and could have easily started the year in AAA to get more work in before becoming a full blown MLB starter for a team that was highly unlikely to contend last year. For a kid who is trying to make the team is may be in his best interest to really gas it up in ST and early in the year in order to prove/show something to the decision makers. This Spring is a completely different ballgame for Pineda. He is established as a Major League starter, and a successful one at that, with a rotation spot 95% locked up. To not use this spring to work on improving other aspects of his game (what would overdoing it out of the gate and gassing it in the first half of March even prove?) would be foolish on both his and the Yankees part.

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Posted: 3/16/2012 11:32 AM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


Bob,

Those final 5 games are also the 5 games which saw him eclipse his previous high in innings pitch. It was uncharted territory for him and can be somewhat expected. It is also possible that he is growing and learning as a pitcher how not to burn himself out and how to build himself up rather than just come out slinging day one. Things like this need to be noted as well as the negatives/concerns. He has gone from 88-90 up to 90-92 over a couple of weeks...if thats where he peaks and is still sitting there a month from now then ya we can start talking but right now it just seems so premature and the product of there being nothing else to really complain about.

And also just let me say...the concerns as somewhat valid ones, but just feel a bit premature.

He Amy Ha

Last edited 3/16/2012 11:33 AM by michcusejoe5

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Posted: 3/16/2012 11:38 AM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


Weren't you going on about the verducci effect?  I would think you would be really worried in this case as Pineda was 22 and had his innings increase by 32 and went from minors to majors.
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Posted: 3/16/2012 11:46 AM

RE: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


In my Allen Iverson voice - we talking about Spring Training, not the Season but Spring Training.


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Posted: 3/16/2012 11:57 AM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



Bob420 wrote: Weren't you going on about the verducci effect?  I would think you would be really worried in this case as Pineda was 22 and had his innings increase by 32 and went from minors to majors.

I am concerned in that regard but not overly concerned. He barely surpassed the threshold (by a single inning) and was managed pretty well late in the year last. The Mariners shut him down early and  also pitched him on extended rest many times the final month or so. Pitcher makeup and build are aspects to take into account too and that works in favor of Pineda big time being a big 6'7. I made note at the end there that the concerns are good ones to have...I just don't think it is necessarily relevant yet.

Pineda's case of a 31 inning increase with light work the last month of the season is different from the case of Hughes who came into 2011 with a 46 inning increase from his previous high(which didnt even come in 2010)  plus a 70 inning increase from 2010 to 2011. Very different cases. The guys I am less concerned with V.E-wise are the big boys like Pineda who are on the bottom of that list (barely surpass the threshold established by Verducci)

He Amy Ha
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Posted: 3/16/2012 12:02 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 


I don't really believe in the Verducci Effect but he did pick 30 for a reason.  It gets really fuzzy when we start to pick and choose which ones it applies to.  Pineda is probably fine but being a young arm that is the future of the Yankees,  it needs to be monitored.  It is never too early.  In fact, it is usually too late.
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Posted: 3/16/2012 12:26 PM

Re: ST Game- Yankees (Pineda) at Nationals (CMW) on MLBN 



Bob420 wrote: I don't really believe in the Verducci Effect but he did pick 30 for a reason.  It gets really fuzzy when we start to pick and choose which ones it applies to.  Pineda is probably fine but being a young arm that is the future of the Yankees,  it needs to be monitored.  It is never too early.  In fact, it is usually too late.

Fair enough...I'd just like to see how things progress before jumping to any conclusions or start panicing right out of the gate.

He Amy Ha
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