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Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD!

Posted: 8/18/2014 7:10 PM

Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 


Starting Lineup: Kansas City at Minnesota

Kansas City
PosPlayerHRRBIAVG
RF Aoki, Norichika 1 30 .271
2B Infante, Omar 6 53 .254
C Perez, Salvador 15 51 .266
1B Butler, Billy 7 51 .280
LF Gordon, Alex 13 55 .284
DH Willingham, Josh 13 39 .214
3B Moustakas, Mike 14 48 .198
SS Escobar, Alcides 2 42 .280
CF Dyson, Jarrod 1 18 .286
P Vargas, Jason (9-5, 3.27)
Minnesota
PosPlayerHRRBIAVG
CF Santana, Danny 5 28 .316
2B Dozier, Brian 20 53 .235
1B Mauer, Joe 4 31 .275
DH Vargas, Kennys 3 15 .317
RF Arcia, Oswaldo 11 32 .225
3B Plouffe, Trevor 8 55 .244
LF Parmelee, Chris 6 22 .253
C Fryer, Eric 1 3 .245
SS Escobar, Eduardo 3 22 .272
P May, Trevor (0-1, 12.46)
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Posted: 8/18/2014 9:33 PM

Re: Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 


Different day, same story: 

A ton of walks, ton of hits - throws a fastball that is str8 as an arrow and can't throw a curve ball to save his life.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 9:35 PM

Re: Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 


May is clearly not ready for prime time. Way too many walks. Don't know if it can all be attributable to nerves....but if it is, he's not ready to be pitching in Minnesota.
I suspect Pino will return to make a start this weekend against Detroit. And as much as I would love for him to get a couple more starts here...he should replace May. Pino's great start tonite in Rochester I believe has earned him another shot at the rotation. May, OTOH, needs to get sent down.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 10:10 PM

Re: Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 


The guy was "ok" going thru the linup the first time around, but he doesn't make any adjustments whatsover, while the Royals clearly figured him out. 

The other thing that sticks out is this:  He faced 23 batters and struck out one (1).  The guy (imo) does not have the type of fastball to strike out hitters, nor does he possess a curveball or slider to compliment his fastball and changeup. 

He's not good enough... and for folks who are holding their breath on him, I honestly would stop and get a big breath of reality.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:15 AM

Re: Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 


Twins appear to have a stable of AAAA pitchers sadly. All of them are very competent in AAA but can't cut it (yet) in the bigs. May clearly not ready; Pino, like Hendriks before him, lights out in AAA but ineffective in the majors; Kris Johnson and Logan Darnell unimpressive in their cameos but adequate down here (Johnson however, has faltered badly lately)...Meyers--barely making it down here despite the strikeout total, he has yet to complete more than 6 innings and his early inning pitch count is killing him.

This won't do.

And like the broken record (and observing what has happened to Sano and Buxton) you just CANNOT build a winner around ONLY prospects. ITs too big a risk. Without proven players to act as the glue to hold a team together, you go nowhere. I have watched the hated Washington Nationals go from the decimated, league owned Expos to clearly one of the best teams in the NL---they have done it with a nice blend. Note that phe-noms Bryce Harper and S.Strassberg are not having stellar seasons at all...yet the Nats own a 6 game lead.

Whenever you pin your hopes solely on prospects, some who are still 2 or 3 years away, and declare that this is when your team will be competitive....it rarely works out that way. Balance. Balance in all things.

Plouffe's HR only made the score sound reasonable last night. Really it was another routine loss for the Twins against a fast rising KC team on a mission...sort of like the Twins were several years ago when they chased Detroit right out of the division title with that incredible finish.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 7:42 AM

Re: Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 


Out of all of the guys pitching in the minors for the Twins, Meyer, Stewart and Berrios are the only ones I see having legitimate upside.   May clearly has a ton of work to do and may never get there. Pino is simply Liam Hendrick v2.0. And the others?  Who knows?  Somehow I see a bunch of Deduno replicas as the best case scenario.

You do need quality veterans, but with pitchers there is a bit of  a double-edged sword.  On one hand, teams can't compete without quality veteran pitchers, but the only way to get and keep quality veteran pitchers is to grossly overpay for them in terms of dollars and term.

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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:44 AM

Re: Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 



insagt1 wrote: 
And like the broken record (and observing what has happened to Sano and Buxton) you just CANNOT build a winner around ONLY prospects. ITs too big a risk. Without proven players to act as the glue to hold a team together, you go nowhere. I have watched the hated Washington Nationals go from the decimated, league owned Expos to clearly one of the best teams in the NL---they have done it with a nice blend. Note that phe-noms Bryce Harper and S.Strassberg are not having stellar seasons at all...yet the Nats own a 6 game lead.



IMO, this scenario contradicts what you want the Twins to do. I'm going to do my best to show the comparisons...

What the Nationals went through, I feel is exactly what the Twins are going through now. The Nationals lost 102, 103, and 93 games in 2008-2010, while there farm system was filling up. In the meantime, they filled their rosters with stop gap FA's (Guzman, Pudge, Livan Hernandez, Dunn, Marquis, Willingham...etc). How similar do these names sound to Suzuki, Willingham (ironic), Nolasco, Correia, etc?

Through this whole time, they kept 1 big name that was tied to the franchise, Ryan Zimmerman. (Joe Mauer?)

When Strasburg, Desmond, Harper, Zimmerman, etc were starting to come up, they started trading away these stop-gap pieces for Prospects or PTBNL... Like Gio Gonzalez, Tanner Roark, Wilson Ramos. Once all of these guys were starting to prove to be a winners/ contending... they filled in the rest of the spots with proven guys (Span, Werth, Fister). 

I guess my point is that the 2 scenarios seem to mirror each other, and after the dreaded 100 loss seasons, the Nationals seemed to fill their roster with the prospects that "made it" first, and then filled out with FA's after... not the other way around. 

Side note... The Capps for Ramos trade that had everyone up in arms here (me included for the record). Capps had a 2.75 ERA with the Nationals before he came over, but Perkins has a 2.60 ERA right now, and people would have a complete fit if we traded him for a prospect like Ramos... just seems to be a tad bit of a double standard to me.

Last edited 8/19/2014 11:02 AM by HighandTight29

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Posted: 8/19/2014 4:26 PM

Re: Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 


Not contradicting at all.
my complaint is being too anxious to trade away any roster player solely in order to get prospects...thinking that this is the way you will be good....someday...which might never come for a number of reasons. I don't like the concept that all prospects will suddenly make you a winner. Thats all. If the Nats did it correctly, I hope the Twins follow suit. But they did not leave their roster bereft of major league talent under the guise of 'rebuilding' or waiting for single A or high school phenoms to suddenly emerge as superstars...even when they were terrible, I agree with prospects and FA's to complement, but never just offloading current players to get picks for later if it means destroying the core team completely.

I like balance. I like prospects....in their proper place. Twins are finding out that some of their most prized ones are either not panning out (Hicks) or are seriously injured at the worst possible times in their development...which slows down the process. It may still work out for them...but I still don't think all prospects at the expense of the 25 man roster is the way to go. Hopefully the Twins feel that way too.

Last edited 8/20/2014 12:02 AM by insagt1

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Posted: 8/19/2014 4:30 PM

Re: Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 


Know what I abhor the most? The concept of 'trying' to get the 'best' draft pick by sucking. There is something fundamentally wrong with the whole system that 'rewards' the worst team with the 'best' prospect...thereby making losing a decent option. You should NEVER EVER have an incentive to not win....EVER EVER EVER. I hate this with a passion. Truly, the best draft pick should go to the best team. They earned it. THAT should be the incentive....be the best and you'll get the best.
The idea (that will never be admitted) of tanking to get a higher pick is just plain wrong on so many levels it sickens me.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:19 PM

Re: Royals @ Twins - Aug. 18th, 2014 - GAME THREAD! 



HighandTight29 wrote:
insagt1 wrote: 
And like the broken record (and observing what has happened to Sano and Buxton) you just CANNOT build a winner around ONLY prospects. ITs too big a risk. Without proven players to act as the glue to hold a team together, you go nowhere. I have watched the hated Washington Nationals go from the decimated, league owned Expos to clearly one of the best teams in the NL---they have done it with a nice blend. Note that phe-noms Bryce Harper and S.Strassberg are not having stellar seasons at all...yet the Nats own a 6 game lead.



IMO, this scenario contradicts what you want the Twins to do. I'm going to do my best to show the comparisons...

What the Nationals went through, I feel is exactly what the Twins are going through now. The Nationals lost 102, 103, and 93 games in 2008-2010, while there farm system was filling up. In the meantime, they filled their rosters with stop gap FA's (Guzman, Pudge, Livan Hernandez, Dunn, Marquis, Willingham...etc). How similar do these names sound to Suzuki, Willingham (ironic), Nolasco, Correia, etc?

Through this whole time, they kept 1 big name that was tied to the franchise, Ryan Zimmerman. (Joe Mauer?)

When Strasburg, Desmond, Harper, Zimmerman, etc were starting to come up, they started trading away these stop-gap pieces for Prospects or PTBNL... Like Gio Gonzalez, Tanner Roark, Wilson Ramos. Once all of these guys were starting to prove to be a winners/ contending... they filled in the rest of the spots with proven guys (Span, Werth, Fister). 

I guess my point is that the 2 scenarios seem to mirror each other, and after the dreaded 100 loss seasons, the Nationals seemed to fill their roster with the prospects that "made it" first, and then filled out with FA's after... not the other way around. 

Side note... The Capps for Ramos trade that had everyone up in arms here (me included for the record). Capps had a 2.75 ERA with the Nationals before he came over, but Perkins has a 2.60 ERA right now, and people would have a complete fit if we traded him for a prospect like Ramos... just seems to be a tad bit of a double standard to me.
I like the way you think.  I wish you'd post more often.  The rationale is sound.  I believe Perkins is more accomplished than Capps however as he's strung quite a few quality seasons as closer.  I personally believe a closer on a mediocre team is an unnecessary luxury.  The 7th and 8th inning guys are the most valuable.  I still contend that a lights out 8th inning guy is more important.  The way lineups turnover throughout a game, more often than not it's the 8th inning where the meat of the order usually steps up to the plate.  I'd love to see the stats on that.  For me, it's just from watching tons of games.

For the record, I'd favor trading Perkins if we could get real talent back.  You need to trade quality to get quality.  Contenders frequently blow the farm for that "one missing piece".  Look at Cespedes for Lester.  Incredible.  We're not contending right now and we need to really evaluate the talent that other teams might actually want like Dozier, Perkins, and Hughes.  The formula you described in developing prospects then supplementing them with free agents is exactly what happened with the two Twins world series.

Gaetti, Puckett, Brunansky,  Hrbek, and Gagne.  Getting players like Morris, Reardon, Smalley, Baylor,  Gladden, Pagliarulo, and Chili Davis.  Critical pieces and homegrown talent.
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