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Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros

Posted: 8/12/2014 1:02 AM

Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


Joe Mauer returned to the Twins lineup with a 2-4 performance and an RBI as the Twins nipped Houston 4-2 with 2 late runs. Duensing got the win in relief and Perkins picked up save #29.

To make room for Mauer, Twins made a late day trade sending Josh Willingham to KC for a minor league pitcher, who will be assigned to New Britain.

I am thinking that a revised goal for this years Twins would realistically be finishing no more than 10 games under .500. 76-86 would be an improvement, however slight.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 1:09 AM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


Yep - Joe comes thru for us (going the other way, of course) with the game-winning RBI and with two outs in top of the ninth.

And welcome Tommy Milone - guy is not spectacular, by any means, but made some good pitches when in trouble AND stayed out of the big innings.  His stuff reminds me a bit of an old friend of ours:  Geoff Zahn.

TWINS WIN!
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Posted: 8/12/2014 7:21 AM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


Gasoline on the Fire Dept:
Anyone notice who has the THIRD most hits in the NL to date? Denard Span.

sigh....
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Posted: 8/12/2014 2:04 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


Good for Denard.  You need to trade quality to get quality.  I'm happy to have Alex Meyer for Denard.  I still think it was a fair trade.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 6:40 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 



insagt1 wrote: Gasoline on the Fire Dept:
Anyone notice who has the THIRD most hits in the NL to date? Denard Span.

sigh....
Since June 30th, there hasn't been anyone in either league to have more hits.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 6:43 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 



ETCDelawareTwinsFan wrote: Good for Denard.  You need to trade quality to get quality.  I'm happy to have Alex Meyer for Denard.  I still think it was a fair trade.
You just kind of have to put up with hearing about them around here, at least until they start faltering. See Joe Nathan...
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Posted: 8/12/2014 6:53 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 



HighandTight29 wrote:
You just kind of have to put up with hearing about them around here, at least until they start faltering. See Joe Nathan...
Yeah, makes you want to burn you eyes out, huh? 

Btw, it may be awhile until a guy like Ben Revere gets to his late 30's and a natural downward slide takes place (as we see with virtually every player). 

With regards to Nathan, I openly gave Texas a big 'thumb's up' with their 2 year deal they extended to him coming off TJ surgery and it turned out to be great value for money.  I raised my eyebrows a bit when Detroit gave him that 9 mil a year deal to a 39 yr. old, but thought, 'hey, good for Joe Nathan - he deserves a payday.'  He's been a stud for a long time and yeah, Detroit will need him to come thru if they want a pennant.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 7:09 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


I never had a problem with Revere or Span. I just knew were the organization was at, and that 3 Reveres in the outfield, or 3 Spans for that matter, were not going to win more games with the pitching we had/have. We could have had 3 Mike Trouts in the outfield, and we still would have lost 90 games because our pitchers were garbage.

And IMO, the only way to get a decent pitching staff, is to stock your system with POTENTIAL. Especially when your MLB pitching coach is as horrid as ours. A lot of the guys we have lost have left Via Free agency, which you can't really argue because the Twins' pocketbook isn't endless like some other major cities. (I know some have asked "why not spend more?", but I can't answer why)

I'm just curious as to what you would have done with Span and Revere? Keep 2 more guys that can't hit it past the outfielders, pay them more when they require it, and spend even less on garbage FA pitchers? I just cant fathom how you think the team/system would be in better shape with them now than with what they got for them.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 9:27 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


Thats an easy one IMO. You traded Gomez first...at the time of the trade he wasn't the stud he is now. Then Span got traded...for not a lot. But we still had Revere (and a decent backup in Mastroianni) The Revere trade was unnecessary. And on the heels of that they gave Mastro away for absolutely nothing. The 'potential' pitching has yet to 'arrive'. They might, or not.
Meyer and May 'might' be studs....or maybe not. Its a big leap from AAA to the Show for many. Meyer has certainly shown some flashes. He is a strikeout pitcher...who has been 65% hot and 35% not so hot. He has been on a tight tether...has not pitched more than 6 innings in any of his starts.
May has been good, but not great. His first start with the Twins was awful...but its not fair to judge on one start. Look at Gibson...up down up down...which Gibson is it???? He wonders.
Meanwhile Revere could have been an everyday leadoff hitter. That trade was not a good one...based on what transpired before. Then compounding it by dumping Mastroianni for a player that was released from the low minors within a month. Sheesh.

FA pitchers are a gamble. Prospects are a gamble. Revere was the bird in the hand. They blew it. I won't change that position. The trade that sent Ramos away was also a bust....and I was never a fan of Ramos...still he is a ton better than Capps ever was.

Twins may have caught a break with Santana...originally signed as a shortstop...but pressed into duty in CF because there was no one else.

Twins are incrementally better this year than the previous 3...so far. There is 'potential' all over the landscape...but it has to blossom before any of the supporting cast gets too old to contribute.

And injuries have plagued the prospects in the organization.

Summary: I can justify the Gomez and Span trade (though I doubt we got the better of either trade). I cannot justify trading Revere right after trading Span. Twins were just stupid the way they handled Mastroianni. He was at the very least a great depth player. They thought they were getting a quality closer in Capps for an oft injured, somewhat of a clubhouse disturber Ramos...hasn't turned out well. Capps was crap and Ramos has shown some glimmers.

And until someone proves this to me...the Twins pocketbook isn't that threadbare. Ownership is squeaky tight. It now may be more of the fact that FA's don't want to come here and play for a bottom feeder.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 10:59 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 



insagt1 wrote: Thats an easy one IMO. You traded Gomez first...at the time of the trade he wasn't the stud he is now. Then Span got traded...for not a lot. But we still had Revere (and a decent backup in Mastroianni) The Revere trade was unnecessary. And on the heels of that they gave Mastro away for absolutely nothing. The 'potential' pitching has yet to 'arrive'. They might, or not.
Meyer and May 'might' be studs....or maybe not. Its a big leap from AAA to the Show for many. Meyer has certainly shown some flashes. He is a strikeout pitcher...who has been 65% hot and 35% not so hot. He has been on a tight tether...has not pitched more than 6 innings in any of his starts.
May has been good, but not great. His first start with the Twins was awful...but its not fair to judge on one start. Look at Gibson...up down up down...which Gibson is it???? He wonders.
Meanwhile Revere could have been an everyday leadoff hitter. That trade was not a good one...based on what transpired before. Then compounding it by dumping Mastroianni for a player that was released from the low minors within a month. Sheesh.

FA pitchers are a gamble. Prospects are a gamble. Revere was the bird in the hand. They blew it. I won't change that position. The trade that sent Ramos away was also a bust....and I was never a fan of Ramos...still he is a ton better than Capps ever was.

Twins may have caught a break with Santana...originally signed as a shortstop...but pressed into duty in CF because there was no one else.

Twins are incrementally better this year than the previous 3...so far. There is 'potential' all over the landscape...but it has to blossom before any of the supporting cast gets too old to contribute.

And injuries have plagued the prospects in the organization.

Summary: I can justify the Gomez and Span trade (though I doubt we got the better of either trade). I cannot justify trading Revere right after trading Span. Twins were just stupid the way they handled Mastroianni. He was at the very least a great depth player. They thought they were getting a quality closer in Capps for an oft injured, somewhat of a clubhouse disturber Ramos...hasn't turned out well. Capps was crap and Ramos has shown some glimmers.

And until someone proves this to me...the Twins pocketbook isn't that threadbare. Ownership is squeaky tight. It now may be more of the fact that FA's don't want to come here and play for a bottom feeder.
Absolutely.  That trade was completely frivolous and uncalled for, but shows how desperate TR was/is for starting pitching.  And yes, I'd agree - this is our glaring weakness.

But, here you go from a clear position of strength (CF with Span and Revere), to creating a gaping, open wound and relying on a Aaron Hicks to fill it.  HAD HE GOT A PROVEN MIDDLE ROTATION ARM - someone like Bronson Arroyo or even an UP and coming Homer Bailey, by all means, pull the trigger, BUT also find a Grady Sizemore type as a patch until Hicks/Buxton are near ready.  Have a freakin' backup plan and don't go all in on your double A rookie!

Three words come to mind:  DISGRACEFUL, WASTEFUL AND ARROGANT.

And yeah, to top it off, we're dumping guys like Mastroianni and Alex Presley, when our proposed solution is clearly a not-ready-for-prime-time player (Hicks).  Again, stupid, but I see TR dumpster diving for guys like Schafer (when this would be absolutely unnecessary had he played his cards correctly).
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Posted: 8/13/2014 7:30 AM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


Brian--I know some of the guys are sick and tired of us bringing this up....but those moves were so ridiculous and ill-thought out, they deserve to be brought up....often. Every once in awhile an organization really flubs up (Orioles trading their best and brightest for Glenn Davis comes to mind) and this is one of those times. I have no idea what they were thinking.

But here we are...with a rookie shortstop learning to play center field and a AA highly praised prospect (Hicks) now languishing in the minors, looking every bit like a nobody.

Someone in the Twins braintrust miscalculated on so many different levels.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 3:59 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


I'm pretty sure Santana has outplayed both Revere and Span combined.  Let me qualify that, in the short amount of time he's been given the opportunity from AA no less.  He's a raw talent that will get even more refined with age.  Call it luck, nevertheless, centerfield isn't really a problem right now.  With Escobar doing nearly everything right neither is SS.  There is finally depth in the middle infield positions in the minors as well.  Our weaknesses are soon becoming strengths.  Pitching continues to languish but there are options in the minors for once that can throw it over 90 mph.  As expected this year hasn't been great but the games are being played better and the talent pool is deeper.  We're not relying on the Hendrick's, Deduno's or DeVries to develop miraculously into major leaguers.  Our guys like Meyer, Mays, Stewart, Berrios are legit major league prospects with mid to upper rotation ceilings.  Picking up Millone was a depth play that was simply genius.  Other young guys are starting to figure things out.  Parmalee has hit lefties and has strong AB's.  Arcia is still raw and needs to settle his aggressiveness at the plate but his power is undeniable.  Plouffe continues to improve his stock and is an excellent placeholder for Sano.  Dozier is getting better but his power numbers are ridiculous.  The depth throughout the lineup is pretty good, we are just missing a legit #3 and #4 hitter.  Maybe that's Buxton and Sano, maybe Mauer returns to form and maybe Parmalee or Arcia develops.  If you asked me what I'd go and get if given lots of money, maybe I'd say Miguel Cabrera but those pieces aren't affordable in reality.  However, we have potential within the organization.

I'm pretty sure this point is one of those agree to disagree issues.  At this point, I think it's moot.  Our organization is better for both moves particularly since Centerfield isn't an issue nor is SS and pitching is better.  If it was dumb luck, so what, you also have to acknowledge that no decision is made in a vacuum.  All parts of the organization and the strong draft classes created a great deal of depth in the minor leagues.

Also, going out and signing free agents for a team that wasn't likely to win now was a pretty gutsy move.  They filled 4 of 5 rotation spots with veteran free agent signings last year and the year before (Correia).  So only one really panned out, but that was the gamble they took.  They spent money to try to win games now.  They didn't dismantle the depth of the organization by signing free agents.

I still think TR has the organization going in the right direction.  I do believe Gardy and Anderson need to go but it seems that is already in the works in some manner with a re-tooling of the coaching staff at the beginning of this year.  Steinbach or Molitor could be the manager come winter.  It will be done the right way too as I suspect Gardenhire will likely "step down" and Anderson might be moved to another role.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 9:00 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 



ETCDelawareTwinsFan wrote: I'm pretty sure Santana has outplayed both Revere and Span combined. 


I'm pretty sure you'd be wrong, if your thinking this.  If you're looking at batting average alone, you might think Santana is outplaying a Denard Span.  Look at Wins Above Replacement, and you'd notice Span is nearly 1 full game above Danny Santana.

We plugged an infielder (Santana) in at CF out of sheer desperation and necessity.  He's performed well, but he's not our future out there.

Speaking of that, say a prayer for Byron Buxton tonight.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 9:56 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


Yes--way too early to annoint Santana in CF over Span or Revere. Certainly the kid is off to a very surprising start and I love it. But I agree, the Twins got lucky on this one.

Meanwhile...Buxton I have to believe is cursed. What a miserable year. And the serious injuries defy logic. Sure hope he's OK.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:55 AM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 



insagt1 wrote:

Meanwhile...Buxton I have to believe is cursed. What a miserable year. And the serious injuries defy logic. Sure hope he's OK.
I'm beginning to think the organization in general is cursed.  Morneau, Mauer and now Buxton have all been sidelined by concussions.  That's not an issue with poor training, that's just plain bad luck.

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Posted: 8/14/2014 12:34 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 


..and his very first game at AA too. Geeeez. Sounds like he is 'OK' but concussions could mean he's done for the season. they are so unpredictable.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 7:42 PM

Re: Welcome Back Joe M! Twins Beat Astros 



insagt1 wrote: ..and his very first game at AA too. Geeeez. Sounds like he is 'OK' but concussions could mean he's done for the season. they are so unpredictable.
It's funny (not 'haha funny', but odd) given this organization's recent history with concussions that TR said that Buxton was fortunate to have sustained a concussion.  But, given the fact that he was knocked out for 10 minutes and lay completely motionless after a horrific collision, I guess he's lucky he didn't break his neck.

Not a good situation (and could have been darn near tragic) but I believe the centerfielder in that situation has: 

A)  First opportunity  to catch the ball and "right of way" and;
B)  To communicate clearly 'Mine!' - meaning all other fielders - get the hell out of the way!
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