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Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki

Posted: 7/21/2014 11:32 PM

Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


Of course, we'll take whatever we can get for Willingham and some folks have mention Perkins as our main chip (I disagree), but the name not often mentioned in guys that we may move is that of our other All-Star, Kurt Suzuki. 

IF we get the feeling we can't sign him to a contract extension, why not move him while he brings the maximum value here?  To me, this is obviously a career year for the "young" man and I don't think we could expect him to duplicate this next year and beyond, so why overpay him?  Also, if we expect he will sample the free agent market anyway, why not get something in return for him now?  Surely, we could survive the rest of the way with Chris Herrmann, Eric Fryer and Josmil Pinto the rest of the way,  yes? 

Here's a link with more info:  http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/21/kurt- suzukis-contract-extension-talks-with-the-twins-di dnt-get-very-far/
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:57 AM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


I feel bad that it might have to go this way. You finally get a player who is a major contributor and immediately you have to worry about not being able to keep him. I know there might be a fear that he is another Willingham...one great season and thats it....but he has been SO good for us, I'd really hate to lose him....and as we know, you don't get value when you are a seller at the deadline. We'll end up pretty much giving him away anyhow. Kinda a no win here if it comes to that.
I don't expect to get anything for Willingham, but I sure don't want to get fleeced with arguably our best player in 2014.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:55 AM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


As good as Suzuki has been, the Twins would be making a mistake if they didn't at least listen to what other teams are willing to offer.  He is having the best year of his career, but my worry is that it is a blip on the radar screen and that the Twins would regret giving him an extension rather quickly.  I'm not in favor of giving him away for nothing, but if they can land something somewhat decent for him, I think the Twins would have to consider it.

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Posted: 7/22/2014 9:19 AM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


I actually agree with this. I almost brought it up in the Glen Perkins debacle, but didn't want to get stones thrown at twice. 

The way he is hitting right now, he could be a major asset to a contending team the rest of the way, and why not try to maximize the payback for us? The numbers geek in me is always looking at Expected Value, and Suzuki's Expected Value to someone else for the rest of this year is way higher than for us next year (or even 2016 if we want to be realistic about our contentions). I can, and have, made the same argument for Perkins. 

The same goes for Morales, Correia, Willingham, and even Hughes. Sure, they will probably net us squat in return, but what is their Expected Value for us in 2016? 0, except for Hughes, but I can argue we would get more for him now than what he would do for us in the next 2 years. 

Maybe this is just the losing that is getting to me, but I just want to start from scratch, Astro's style.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:14 AM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


I know people will argue that we wouldn't get enough in return for players like Morales, Willingham or Correia, but you just never know what a return will yield.  Case in point:  the "player to be named later" that the Twins acquired in return for mediocre, free-agent-to be, Dave Hollins, turned out to be none other than David Ortiz.  With that in mind, I'd rather see the Twins get something in return for players they know are not part of the plans in 2015 than to keep them with the hope that they "might" push them past the .500 mark.  That is ultimately the analysis they need to deploy when deciding whether to keep Suzuki. If they don't realistically see him coming back next year, it might be best to trade him when his value is somewhat high.

Hughes is an interesting case.  He is a competent starter who has performed well for the Twins this year which, coupled with his reasonable multi-year deal, makes him a very marketable commodity.  The question, however, is whether they have enough arms in the system who will be ready to take his spot within the next 2 seasons.  May, Meyer and Berrios are clearly not ready this year and may not be ready next season either.  With that in mind, as bad as the Twins have been lately, I never want to see them go back to filling their rotation with the same types of career minor leaguers and AAAA pitchers that they used in the two seasons prior to this one.  Nobody is untouchable, however, so Ryan should at least listen to any offers for Hughes and if someone makes him an offer that is too good to turn down, he should consider it.

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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:37 AM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


I hear you all...my main concern would be:
Is Suzuki in or out of the Twins plans going forward. Again, I never understand why the team cries poverty. If OTOH, Suzuki is committed to testing the FA market, then you have to try and get something for him, no question....because the chances of him picking the Twins is less than zero.

However, what bothers me most is that the Ortiz thing is clearly an exception to the general rule of moving players at the deadline. (and of course when we got him, he wasn't a 'star' yet) Sellers RARELY get much in return...thats why they are sellers. I just can't see giving away our best players in hopes that a total rebuild will yield positive results anytime soon.

We could get ourselves into an Orioles situation...where they promised rebuild for 14 years...thats not satisfactory. Or the Cubs...that never make it at all. Sometimes when you actually have decent players, you need to retain a few of them.

OTOH, playing Devils advocate again....suzuki could be another Willingham...one great season and boom. So I guess I really can't have strong feelings either way....and just HOPE that the Twins braintrust does the right thing....for a change.

All the losing does finally get on ones nerves.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:57 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 



insagt1 wrote: 

We could get ourselves into an Orioles situation...where they promised rebuild for 14 years...thats not satisfactory. Or the Cubs...that never make it at all. Sometimes when you actually have decent players, you need to retain a few of them.


This is the line where I think people might waver a little bit... I would be all for retaining decent players, but who on this team is a "decent player"? Career avg. .239 Dozier?  How about .241 Plouffe? .238 Arcia? The light hitting 25 million dollar man? It just is not a winning team right now. The closest pieces we have to a winning team are currently in Rochester, New Britain, or in someone else's farm if you get lucky in a July fire sale. 

If you continue to rotate 2-3 new guys onto a 100 loss team every year, you aren't going far. (Ask the Cubs & Orioles) The only thing worse than a 100 loss team is thinking you're a 60 loss team through the entire stretch. 

Could the "decent players" on the team now possibly push the team to 90 wins in 2015? 2016? Perhaps... But they will be smaller pieces to a bigger picture (Buxton, Sano, May, Meyer, Rosario, etc..) 

Its also hard to say the Twins haven't spent money (Nolasco, Pelfrey, Correia, Morales, Suzuki), they just happen to almost never pan out... which is why I think questioning a trade for a prospect seems foolish. Quality free agent signings for the Twins have been just as hard to come by.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 3:00 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


talk about the proverbial rock and hard place! thats why I am really at a loss as to what they should do.
Parmelee, Arcia and Colabello are totally untested, yet right now they are considered some of the foundation of the team. Plouffe is hot and cold, but overall not bad, with a decent surrounding cast. I like Dozier. He has been leading the league in runs (on a very bad team, no mean feat); he has surprising power and a great OBP..so I can overlook the BA. We're stuck with Mauer. Lets hope he returns to form. Sano and Buxton primarily have to stay healthy. Hicks may be a lost cause. Florimon may be a lost cause. Pinto should probably find a new position...he is a terrible catcher and not really improving. Nunez is aging and Escobar while decent may not the long haul solution at SS. I think Santana might be.

But we have been rearranging these Titanic deck chairs for awhile now. don't know if we have the core to be a winner again or not. I guess I wonder how long the diminishing crowds in Minneapolis will put up with this sort of team? We fell from perennial playoff participants to bottom feeders in one swell poop.

I have more questions than answers. I thought this years Red Wing team would shine brightly and it hasn't. It has glaring weaknesses I never counted on. (bad 'd' stands out the most)

Again, since I'm really emotionally not tied in to any of them, I will leave it in their hands
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Posted: 7/25/2014 9:31 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


It sounds like the Cardinals are on the verge of signing AJ Pierzynski.  If that happens, that will be one less potential suitor for Suzuki.

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Posted: 7/26/2014 6:01 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 



TwinsFaninVT wrote: It sounds like the Cardinals are on the verge of signing AJ Pierzynski.  If that happens, that will be one less potential suitor for Suzuki.
Done deal - we all knew a guy like Pierzynski wouldn't be without a job long (didn't we?).

With regards to Suzuki, I think he's gone.  Reportedly, he's asking for a 150% (+)raise and over 3 years - I just think we're WAY too far apart and the only way we get long-term value on this player is to trade him now. 

Enjoyed having you here for a half-seaon, Kurt.   Thank you for your contribution to our team and best of luck with your new team.
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Posted: 7/26/2014 8:21 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


have to begrudgingly agree. He's our best player pretty much...but the issue is why would he as a FA ever want to come back here unless an offer totally blew his drawers off. Which will never happen. We have zero chance to keep him so the only thing left is to try and salvage something of value. Sucks really. I hate free agency....sorry Mr Flood...but it added a dimension to the game that really hasn't made it better....all it did was make marginal ballplayers filthy beyond reason rich. And it also cut out a lot of teams bidding for their services.
The pendulum swung way too far the other way IMO.

Last edited 7/26/2014 8:22 PM by insagt1

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Posted: 7/26/2014 10:35 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


He's got value in his defensive ability and his ability to call a good game and handle pitchers also frames pitches very well.  I believe they should try to sign him since we really don't have a lot of options to replace him.  Of course he's going to ask a lot in relative terms to his current deal but he probably deserves it.  The young pitchers coming up will need a veteran catcher.  He's a good one.  It's a good investment in my mind unless Mauer decides to go ahead and start catching again.  I don't see that happening though with respect to the team, that's really the only place he is an asset for the team.  As a first baseman, he's mediocre.  As a catcher, he's a hall of famer.  Get him a big padded mask and helmet.  Of course, he's not going to move back behind the plate since he doesn't want to look or sound like Muhammed Ali 10 years from now.  Therefore, if they want a catcher for 2016, they should sign Suzuki.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:10 AM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 



ETCDelawareTwinsFan wrote: He's got value in his defensive ability and his ability to call a good game and handle pitchers also frames pitches very well. 
From MLB Trade Rumors:

"Defensively speaking, Suzuki has been a mixedbag. He’s thrown out a solid 24 percent of opposing base-stealers and rates as one of the best in the league at blocking potential passed balls and wild pitches, per Baseball Prospectus. However, he ranks at the bottom of the league in terms of pitch framing, per BP and Matthew Carruth at StatCorner.com."
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:54 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 



brian450 wrote:
Done deal - we all knew a guy like Pierzynski wouldn't be without a job long (didn't we?).

With regards to Suzuki, I think he's gone.  Reportedly, he's asking for a 150% (+)raise and over 3 years - I just think we're WAY too far apart and the only way we get long-term value on this player is to trade him now. 

Enjoyed having you here for a half-seaon, Kurt.   Thank you for your contribution to our team and best of luck with your new team.
I knew he would get picked up, but I honestly thought it would be an AL team that picked him up so he could fill in as a DH from time to time.  He would have made a lot of sense for the Orioles.

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Posted: 7/27/2014 7:00 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


Well, he sure makes a lot of sense for the Cardinals, given that Molina is out for another two months + and his left-handed bat AND the experience he brings.

Hey, cool, also to see him back in the midwest, where he's had a ton of success with us, the White Sox and now, most assuredly, will be fine with the Cards.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 8:32 AM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


Doesn't it really come down to the numbers.... if he's willing to take 4-5 million a year and likes Minnesota then it's a worthwhile investment
Losers whine about their best...... Winners go home and        %##%# the prom queen.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:56 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 



JMUplayermike wrote: Doesn't it really come down to the numbers.... if he's willing to take 4-5 million a year and likes Minnesota then it's a worthwhile investment
I don't know about that.  $4-5 million for several years is a lot to spend on a guy on the wrong side of 30 who is having a career year at the plate.  My guess is that he wants a long term contract (at least 3 years) and that the Twins would probably regret that deal after year two, or possibly even the first year.

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Posted: 7/28/2014 10:11 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 


But really, what are our options?  Pinto isn't ready and might never be ready defensively.  Offensively, aside from a sprint out of the gates, he struggled before being sent down.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 10:56 PM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 



ETCDelawareTwinsFan wrote: But really, what are our options? 
Pinto, Herrmann and Fryer.  

I don't think we're hurting in this department and given our status, it may be ok to let Pinto figure things out on the job and let us assess whether he'll be part of our future.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 4:13 AM

Re: Twins May Actually Shop Kurt Suzuki 



ETCDelawareTwinsFan wrote: But really, what are our options?  Pinto isn't ready and might never be ready defensively.  Offensively, aside from a sprint out of the gates, he struggled before being sent down.
I'd rather give one of the younger guys the chance to sink or swim than give a contract I'm sure we would ultimately regret to a guy having a career year.  It sounds like Suzuki is not looking for a hometown discount and would like to break the bank on his last contract (and who can blame him?).  Again, I could live with a 1-2  year deal at $4-5 million a season but anything longer than that is a real gamble.

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