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Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place

Posted: 06/22/2008 11:23 AM

Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


Hello. Some might remember me from Last summer. Just a heads up that the Lakers and Bobcats are in serious trade talks involving Lamar Odom and Gerald Wallace again. Talks got jump started by agent Rob Pelinka a couple of days ago. As some of you know Pelinka is the agent of Kobe, Fisher, Sasha, and Gerald Wallace.
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Posted: 06/22/2008 11:36 AM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


I can buy into this.

On the Bobcats end, I'm sure they are concerned with Wallace's injury history. I noted in another thread that he has experienced a myriad of injuries in just the last 18 months, which includes his 4th concussion in 4 years. With Wallace having 5 years left on his deal, they may feel he is just too risky an investment. Plus the team has 3 SFs ready to take Wallace's place in Carroll, 2007 1st round pick Jared Dudley and then returning from injury, former #3 pick Adam Morrison. Odom would fit nicely into the lineup at PF alongside C Emeka Okafor, giving them a pair of strong rebounders. Plus Odom has an expiring deal, meaning big time cap relief (that could go towards the extension for Okafor). They could go big at #9 (say Brook Lopez) and groom him off the bench for this season, then let Odom leave as a FA next summer and start Okafor and Lopez at PF/C.

On the Lakers end, Wallace is a very very good SF on both ends of the floor. Just 2 years ago he averaged 2 steals and 2 blocks a game. His offense has steadily improved and this past season he was a 19.4ppg 6rpg 3.5apg player. He plays solid D and continues to grow as a player. He fell in love with the 3 pointer this past season (and he is a mediocre 3pt shooter) so his FG% fell from 50%ish to 45%. Probably a result of his injuries preventing him from slashing as much. Also for his nice apg average, he is turnover prone as well. So he has his flaws. Injuries. 3pt shooting. Turnovers. But when you factor in his versatility (he's played SG, SF and PF - and actually spent more time at PF than SF this past season), his youth (26 in July), his improving offense, his stellar defense, it's easy to fall in love with him as a player. Plus the 5 years left on his deal is pretty manageable at about 10 mil per year. It's the same deal the Lakers were discussing for Odom.


So really what this comes down to is that the Lakers are getting a fantastic player.... but are they willing to gamble on his health?


 

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Posted: 06/22/2008 11:42 AM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


I remember this guy from last summer. He was the one that was right on target about the 3 team trade between LA, NJ, and Charlotte that came out of the blue. But if I remember right he was also off on another trade. So who knows. But he seems to know something about Pelinka.

Last edited 06/22/2008 11:45 AM by JBear1

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Posted: 06/22/2008 12:21 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


Yes they are willing to gamble on his health. Right now Wallace is #1 and the only 1 on the Lakers list.
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Posted: 06/22/2008 1:08 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


After Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace would be next on my list. After that I would be weary of trading Odom for most of the other SF's available.



Outside of his injury history I really like Wallace.  He's a mediocre 3pt shooter but he has a mid range jumpshot, he can attack the rim, he's a solid rebounder, he's becoming a solid passer, he's an excellent perimeter defender, and he's a decent post defender. He's also only about to turn 26.

Last edited 06/22/2008 1:16 PM by JBear1

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Posted: 06/22/2008 1:36 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


Just curious.  Does anyone remember how Wallace sustained his injuries?  Or has a theory on why he sustained so many injuries?     Concusions aren't your typical basketball injuries.

To draw a distinction, there's a great difference in risks between players who sustain a self-inflicted injury like Shaun Livingston's knee versus somone falling on your knees.
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Posted: 06/22/2008 2:23 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


Wallace's last concussion wasn't his fault. He was elbowed in the head. And the separated shoulder he suffered in January 2007 was Jeff Foster landing on him after he dove for a ball. So these weren't self-inflicted. That said a good # of his recent injuries are basically strains and sprains, which is often attributed to his reckless style of play. His nickname is "Crash", which I guess should draw comparisons to another injury prone reckless player in Wade, whose nickname is "Flash".

One theory that actually came out before was that a lot of his injuries was due to the fact that he doesn't really stretch. So he said he was going to work on that this summer (Yoga/Pilates) to help prevent these types of muscle injuries.

Guys who play like Wade and Wallace are always going to be injury prone. It's a tough games as it is and playing reckless only adds to the risk. That said, they're amazing players because of their style and I don't see them changing a thing or fans wanting them to.

If Wallace does become a Laker, I'll be very excited..... and hoping that a summer of stretching will help him. Maybe he should consider wearing a helmet during games too. j/k

 

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Posted: 06/22/2008 2:32 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


Helmet, then put on RipHalmilton's mask.  

I'm very surprised to as Charlotte willing to depart with Wallace.    Wonder who else they'd want to send over to match salaries.
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Posted: 06/22/2008 2:45 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


I can see Charlotte packaging Nazr Mohammed with Wallace. The trade works for Odom with a 2 for 1 swap like this.

Why would Charlotte include him? For one, it adds to their potential cap relief. He is owed 13.2 mil after next season and trading him, and Wallace, for Odom's expiring deal washes that off the books. With Odom at PF and Okafor at C and potentially drafting a C like Lopez, there isn't a great need for Nazr, who was actually pretty decent in his time in Charlotte but was in and out of the starting lineup. Add in the return of Sean May plus youngsters like Ryan Hollins and Jermareo Davidson, and they have enough depth where they can move Nazr and just take the cap savings. Moving Nazr and Wallace cuts about 15 mil off their 09-10 payroll and puts the Bobcats in great position for cap space, even with Okafor's extension.

The Lakers could take Nazr. He's a pretty good backup C with a lot of starting experience should injuries derail the team again. This past season he averaged 9.3ppg 6.9rpg 0.9bpg 52fg% in 61 games with the Bobcats. Getting him allows the team to make Mihm the 3rd string C and if they keep Turiaf, allow him to exclusively be a backup PF. Plus the Lakers won't have to use the MLE on a backup C and could use it on a SF like Posey if they still wanted to after acquiring Wallace.

 

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Posted: 06/22/2008 3:36 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


To add to this theory Roy Hibbert is working out for the Bobcats on Tuesday.
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Posted: 06/22/2008 3:41 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


Eddie's right, Charlotte has depth at SF and a lack of depth at PF. It would create future cap space and clear room for others to play. Also, Wallace has a reputation as being a bit difficult. Not Ron Artest difficult, but a bit difficult none the less.




My opinion would be:


1. Trade Odom for Smith if possible.


2. Trade Odom for Wallace if possible.


3. Don't trade Odom.

Last edited 06/22/2008 3:44 PM by JBear1

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Posted: 06/22/2008 3:51 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


Very interesting. I was listening to sportingnews satellite radio and they said there's a rumor going around that the Bobcats contacted the Lakers about Wallace for Odom. They didn't say what the Lakers response was, but this might have legs,

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Posted: 06/22/2008 4:09 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 



JBear1 wrote: Very interesting. I was listening to sportingnews satellite radio and they said there's a rumor going around that the Bobcats contacted the Lakers about Wallace for Odom. They didn't say what the Lakers response was, but this might have legs,

wow i wasnt even going to comment this thread bc i wasnt buying any of it...but let the rumor fly..id take Wallace..but again like ive said..we will be hurtin on rebounds bad
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Posted: 06/22/2008 5:14 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 



DOAKLEY8 wrote:
JBear1 wrote: Very interesting. I was listening to sportingnews satellite radio and they said there's a rumor going around that the Bobcats contacted the Lakers about Wallace for Odom. They didn't say what the Lakers response was, but this might have legs,

wow i wasnt even going to comment this thread bc i wasnt buying any of it...but let the rumor fly..id take Wallace..but again like ive said..we will be hurtin on rebounds bad
With Bynum and Gasol in the paint? I don't think so, even Turiaf does alright in relief

eagle.gif

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Posted: 06/22/2008 5:34 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 



DOAKLEY8 wrote:

wow i wasnt even going to comment this thread bc i wasnt buying any of it...but let the rumor fly..id take Wallace..but again like ive said..we will be hurtin on rebounds bad


The Lakers were the 4th best rebounding team this season. That was with Bynum out for a lot of the season due to injury, Gasol out of place at C and mediocre rebounders like Radmanovic and Walton covering SF.

Put Bynum back in the lineup (sure fire double digits), Gasol at his proper position of PF (averaged 9.1rpg starting at PF versus 7.8 at C) and Wallace at SF (who the last 3 seasons averaged 6, 7.2 and 7.5rpg) and they'll be fine on the boards. Most likely better than they were this season.

 

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Posted: 06/22/2008 5:53 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


Bynum average double digit rebounds in under 30 minutes of play last year, that is a very very good rebounding rate and our rebounding will probably improve since Bynum can get more of the tough rebounds that Pau and Odom struggled to get at times.
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Posted: 06/22/2008 6:35 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


I agree with Bynum helping on the boards..but Odom is a greta defensive rebounder..and if traded it would be missed..and I i think with the mid-level a rebounder would have to be addressed. and like Phil said we need a head banger to come in to help. If we did do a Odom for Wallace or Odom for Jefferson or Odom for Artest..then I'm all for givin alot of the mid-level for ...yea i know..Kwame..he can help rebound and defend with the 2nd unit..which is all we need.
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Posted: 06/22/2008 6:39 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


I'm not gonna get my hopes up on this one, I love Wallace he is one of those guys that plays hard for 48 minutes no matter what, but I don't think there is a chance in hell of this trade happening, Jordan loves the attitude, fire, and skills Wallace brings to the team, Odom could equal the skills, but not the attidude and fire.  I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Gerald Wallace coming to the Lakers.

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Posted: 06/22/2008 6:39 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 



JBear1 wrote: Very interesting. I was listening to sportingnews satellite radio and they said there's a rumor going around that the Bobcats contacted the Lakers about Wallace for Odom. They didn't say what the Lakers response was, but this might have legs,


Are we sure we want a player who is possibly one concussion away from career ending?  I love what you are all saying about Wallace but damn I wouldn't us to bring in Wallace just to have him go down like a ticking time bomb.  Btw, if we do agree to a trade I want Mitch and company to do a cat scan on his brain to see that this trade won't backfire in our face?

Last thing we need is to have another Chris Mihm type injury player who gets hit on the head and then sits out the whole season due to side affects and dizziness.

Dictatorship has overtaken the Lakernation.  Major cause for concern.  Led by David "ala Vladimir Putin" Stern.  Beware!!!
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Posted: 06/22/2008 7:22 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 



DOAKLEY8 wrote: I agree with Bynum helping on the boards..but Odom is a greta defensive rebounder..and if traded it would be missed..and I i think with the mid-level a rebounder would have to be addressed. and like Phil said we need a head banger to come in to help. If we did do a Odom for Wallace or Odom for Jefferson or Odom for Artest..then I'm all for givin alot of the mid-level for ...yea i know..Kwame..he can help rebound and defend with the 2nd unit..which is all we need.


You need to keep in mind Odom has been doing what he is doing on the boards at PF. Move him to SF and he isn't likely to grab as many rebounds. He was primarily a SF in his time with the Clippers and he never topped 8rpg. It wasn't until he became a PF with Miami and then LA that he started becoming a 10rpg player.

You can't just look at this as Odom vs Wallace or whomever in terms of rebounding but it isn't particularly fair or accurate. Technically the Lakers lose in rebounding but the loss is likely to be minimal in terms of overall effect.

 

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Posted: 06/22/2008 8:55 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


You can't really predict if Wallace is going to get hurt by a scan, it's not like his injuries on coming on plays that regular happen. His last concussion came on an inadvertant elbow straight to his head, here is the video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyJoPMK20Bo
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Posted: 06/22/2008 11:04 PM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 



brickshooter wrote: Helmet, then put on RipHalmilton's mask.  

I'm very surprised to as Charlotte willing to depart with Wallace.    Wonder who else they'd want to send over to match salaries.

We can take Felton off thier hands.
"North Carolina has established itself as the gold standard of college basketball .."  -- Seth Davis
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Posted: 06/22/2008 11:25 PM

RE: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


The only problem I have with this trade is wallace injury history, the concussion most importantly, because even one more concussion and he is out of basketball, and his contract is pretty sizeable, he has 5 years left for about 46 million, that is the only problem I have with this trade, everything else would be great for our team, he is a young player, very solid defender, good rebounder, becoming more consistent with his jumper and is a good scorer
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Posted: 06/22/2008 11:31 PM

RE: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 




----lakerstime wrote: ---------------

The only problem I have with this trade is wallace injury history, the concussion most importantly, because even one more concussion and he is out of basketball, and his contract is pretty sizeable, he has 5 years left for about 46 million, that is the only problem I have with this trade, everything else would be great for our team, he is a young player, very solid defender, good rebounder, becoming more consistent with his jumper and is a good scorer

---------------------------------------------


If he had a career ending injury would the NBA allow him to be completely off our cap, similar to whatever the situation with the Blazers and Darius Miles was?
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Posted: 06/23/2008 7:50 AM

RE: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


If the injury was proven to be career ending (by an independent doctor appointed by the NBA and Players Association), his remaining contract would not count against the salary cap. This is a provision in the CBA. There used to be a 1 year waiting period but that's been removed.

 

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Posted: 06/23/2008 8:09 AM

RE: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


There seems to be controversy regarding the result of multiple concussions.  Some reports say that you're 3x as likely to suffer another concussion if you've suffered 3 or more in the last 7 years.  

Other reports refute this.  And some say that the result of the damage won't be felt until 20 years later. Which explains why concussions don't stop football players from finishing out successful careers.

So there is some real risk of GWallace's career being cut short. This sounds like another Trevor Ariza situation.   We may or may not be getting damaged goods albeit very talented ones.
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Posted: 06/23/2008 8:22 AM

RE: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


His athleticism would definitely help the Lakers but his shot selection, shooting skills and injury history all are big question marks. I'm not quite sure why the Bobcats are looking to deal him, if they truly are, given their young core, but I would have to think the Lakers would be interested if someone else w/an expiring contract doesn't jump in and beat them to the punch.
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Posted: 06/23/2008 10:48 AM

Re: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


From what I understand the deal is more likely to happen than it is not happening.
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Posted: 06/23/2008 11:20 AM

RE: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


i hope your understanding is more accurate (in the end) than last time. we ALL know how much i would LOVE gerald wallace on THIS TEAM. dont' you all think he's MUCH MUCH closer to scottie pippen in function than lamar? i mean, aside form lamar's ballhandling and initiation the offense...
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Posted: 06/23/2008 11:24 AM

RE: Serious discussions with the Bobcats taking place 


Wallace is more Pippen-esque in terms of perimeter defense and able to be a #2 scorer

Odom is more Pippen-eseque in terms of ball handling and being a triangle facilitator

Frankly I wish I could just combine the two and form Gerar Wadom. A 6'10 19ppg 10rpg 5apg SG/SF/PF who is an excellent perimeter defender.

 

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