Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
Inbox
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 3  Next >

The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell

Avatar

Posted: 7/8/2014 9:56 PM

The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 


I love his weekly segment with Soren P. each week on 810 WHB, here is today's:  

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s= 26&c=373&f=3029443

I wanted to share it because they discuss whether the Royals are a team that should mortgage prospects/the future to try and win now or hold back and use the farm system to keep getting better in the long run.

Stark thinks KC should go for it and pointed out that if KC were to add a legit power threat, then that would make everyone else's job easier in the lineup.  

My question is, what are the realistic chances the Royals go out and get a legit name/power hitter at the deadline?

My guess is it has a 0-15% max chance of happening based on the Royals track record of trade deadline activities, or inactivity in the past.

Stark suggests players like A. Beltre, A. Rios, T. Tulowitzki and possibly even Carlos Gonzalez can be had at this year's deadline.

Thoughts?
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/8/2014 10:01 PM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 


also, I failed to mention the frustration it's going to be to possibly watch the Royals sit idle at another trade deadline while DET goes out and gets a huge name player and pitcher for a bag of balls.

Remember, when the Royals sold away players like Dye, Damon, Beltran and Greinke, the returns were NEVER equal to what they gave away.  And, after the results now of the Shields/W. Myers trade, I am in favor of trading away prospects for proven commodities, because prospects are just that, prospects.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/8/2014 10:06 PM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 


I agree with Jayson stark. Lets just assume for a second that the WC is the only option for KC to get in to the playofs. I wouldnt completely give up on the division yet, but for this argument lets just assume the WC is the way in. The Royals have a much easier schedule than the M's and Blue jays. The M's are going to have a lot of games against Oakland, LA, plus houston is playing better baseball these days. Blue jays have to play all these east teams and none are great, but none are terrible either.

The Roals see a lot of Minn, Cleveland, and Chicago. If they take care of their own business they stand a VERY good chance of winning the WC

In the next 3 weeks I think were going to ind out what kind or organization Glass wants us to be. Does he want a team that pulls out all the stops when they have a shot, or is he happy with just hanging around and keeping things interesting?. We'll find out soon
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/9/2014 6:42 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



---------------------------------------------
--- dksww wrote:

also, I failed to mention the frustration it's going to be to possibly watch the Royals sit idle at another trade deadline while DET goes out and gets a huge name player and pitcher for a bag of balls.

Remember, when the Royals sold away players like Dye, Damon, Beltran and Greinke, the returns were NEVER equal to what they gave away.  And, after the results now of the Shields/W. Myers trade, I am in favor of trading away prospects for proven commodities, because prospects are just that, prospects.

---------------------------------------------

I would trade the prospects too. The problem is that most GM's are scared to death they are trading away the next Miguel Cabrera. That thought haunts their dreams even though they are most likely trading away Clint Hurdle.

I hope DM unloads the minor league system for a superstar. The Cardinals would do it. The Tigers will do it. The big boys aren't afraid. Will DM do it? Ummmm, NO.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 7:13 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 


There is no one in the minors who is untouchable.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/9/2014 7:28 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



ryansublett wrote: I agree with Jayson stark. Lets just assume for a second that the WC is the only option for KC to get in to the playofs. I wouldnt completely give up on the division yet, but for this argument lets just assume the WC is the way in. The Royals have a much easier schedule than the M's and Blue jays. The M's are going to have a lot of games against Oakland, LA, plus houston is playing better baseball these days. Blue jays have to play all these east teams and none are great, but none are terrible either.

The Roals see a lot of Minn, Cleveland, and Chicago. If they take care of their own business they stand a VERY good chance of winning the WC

In the next 3 weeks I think were going to ind out what kind or organization Glass wants us to be. Does he want a team that pulls out all the stops when they have a shot, or is he happy with just hanging around and keeping things interesting?. We'll find out soon
IF they take care of business against those teams.  Thats a big if.  They should win against those teams, but I don't have a ton of confidence that they actually will.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/9/2014 7:31 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 


There are some big names listed. What is missing is how many years and how much $$$ is left on their contracts, if there are club or player options, etc.  I'm late for my work, but if somebody can get that info on Cargo or Beltre, it would sure lead to a better discussion.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/9/2014 8:33 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



oltrex wrote: There are some big names listed. What is missing is how many years and how much $$$ is left on their contracts, if there are club or player options, etc.  I'm late for my work, but if somebody can get that info on Cargo or Beltre, it would sure lead to a better discussion.

CarGo
2015 29 Colorado Rockies $16,000,000
2016 30 Colorado Rockies $17,000,000
2017 31 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000


Note CarGo has a career road OPS of .760 and a career OPS of 1.024 in Colorado.


Beltre

2015 36 Texas Rangers $18,000,000
2016 37 Texas Rangers *$16,000,000 

2016 is a $16M Vesting Option The Rangers can void 2016 season if Beltre fails to have either 1,200 plate appearances in 2014-15 combined or 600 in 2015.

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 8:34 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



oltrex wrote: There are some big names listed. What is missing is how many years and how much $$$ is left on their contracts, if there are club or player options, etc.  I'm late for my work, but if somebody can get that info on Cargo or Beltre, it would sure lead to a better discussion.
Cargo has a few years left but Tulo only has one.  I think Beltre is coming near the end of a deal maybe this year and next or 2 more full years at the most.  But, the players that have less time on their deals don't require as much in a trade because of that.  I.E. the trades the Royals made last minute on those players were sort of rent-a-player deals and the Royals didn't cash in as much had they just bitten the bullet and traded them a year earlier.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/9/2014 8:42 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



StatCat wrote:
oltrex wrote: There are some big names listed. What is missing is how many years and how much $$$ is left on their contracts, if there are club or player options, etc.  I'm late for my work, but if somebody can get that info on Cargo or Beltre, it would sure lead to a better discussion.

CarGo
2015 29 Colorado Rockies $16,000,000
2016 30 Colorado Rockies $17,000,000
2017 31 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000


Note CarGo has a career road OPS of .760 and a career OPS of 1.024 in Colorado.


Beltre

2015 36 Texas Rangers $18,000,000
2016 37 Texas Rangers *$16,000,000 

2016 is a $16M Vesting Option The Rangers can void 2016 season if Beltre fails to have either 1,200 plate appearances in 2014-15 combined or 600 in 2015.

Not sure why the Rangers would trade Beltre.  They're having a down year but I don't see why they won't gear up and go back at it next year.  Beltre certainly factors into that.  They've been crushed by injuries.

And, as noted, is CarGo really something we'd want to unload a huge package for and trade for that contract, knowing his production outside of Coors?  I wouldn't. 

Short of Stanton (who they won't trade), I'd rather they give up little for small upgrades.  Hell, a Gordon, Dyson, Cain OF might give you 15 WAR this year, if you just put them in there.  And you know they won't remove Moose or Hos, so it's not really worth arguing about.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 8:54 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 


I would think Gonzales would OPS around .800 for
the royals. Unfortunately, he would battle for the team lead.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 9:06 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 


It's going to be pretty painful to watch, but I just don't see this organization stepping up to become buyers. Even though it's obvious that all we really need to be one of the best teams in the AL is a legit power hitter, we won't acquire one. We will do what we always do, make some small, meaningless transactions that the organization will try to sell as impactful. Then we will all watch as our pitching carries us to a .500 record while the offense struggles to scrap runs together. At this point in the season, this team is what it is, a .500 squad.

As others have said, I think it's time to sell our prospects. Who really cares if those guys have potential to be really good in 2017? There is also a chance that they get injured, or end up being very average players. We all know position players are essentially a dime a dozen. I would have a harder time selling our top pitching prospects, but even then it's worth it to acquire proven major league talent.

Anyway, has anyone heard actual comments from the Royals' organization regarding acquiring a power-bat or is it all media/fan-driven speculation?

Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/9/2014 9:32 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



dksww wrote:
oltrex wrote: There are some big names listed. What is missing is how many years and how much $$$ is left on their contracts, if there are club or player options, etc.  I'm late for my work, but if somebody can get that info on Cargo or Beltre, it would sure lead to a better discussion.
Cargo has a few years left but Tulo only has one.  I think Beltre is coming near the end of a deal maybe this year and next or 2 more full years at the most.  But, the players that have less time on their deals don't require as much in a trade because of that.  I.E. the trades the Royals made last minute on those players were sort of rent-a-player deals and the Royals didn't cash in as much had they just bitten the bullet and traded them a year earlier.
Tulo has way more than 1 year left.

2014 29 Colorado Rockies $16,000,000
2015 30 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2016 31 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2017 32 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2018 33 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2019 34 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2020 35 Colorado Rockies $14,000,000
2021 36 Colorado Rockies *$15,000,000 $15M Team Option, $4M Buyout



Probably too much salary commitment for poor Mr Glass to take on even if it is for easily one of the top 5 position players in the game.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 9:45 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



StatCat wrote:
dksww wrote:
oltrex wrote: There are some big names listed. What is missing is how many years and how much $$$ is left on their contracts, if there are club or player options, etc.  I'm late for my work, but if somebody can get that info on Cargo or Beltre, it would sure lead to a better discussion.
Cargo has a few years left but Tulo only has one.  I think Beltre is coming near the end of a deal maybe this year and next or 2 more full years at the most.  But, the players that have less time on their deals don't require as much in a trade because of that.  I.E. the trades the Royals made last minute on those players were sort of rent-a-player deals and the Royals didn't cash in as much had they just bitten the bullet and traded them a year earlier.
Tulo has way more than 1 year left.

2014 29 Colorado Rockies $16,000,000
2015 30 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2016 31 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2017 32 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2018 33 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2019 34 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2020 35 Colorado Rockies $14,000,000
2021 36 Colorado Rockies *$15,000,000 $15M Team Option, $4M Buyout



Probably too much salary commitment for poor Mr Glass to take on even if it is for easily one of the top 5 position players in the game.

Huge salary commitment...but...with that much length on the deal, if you KEEP him...he becomes the face of the franchise and our modern version of a George Brett.

With Shields and Butler coming off the books next year...we could pull a DH by committee and go cheaper on pitching (with some in-house guys like Duffy/Ventura, plus we still have Vargas, Guthrie).

I'd pretty much tell Colorado to pick any prospects they want.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 10:13 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



StatCat wrote:
dksww wrote:
oltrex wrote: There are some big names listed. What is missing is how many years and how much $$$ is left on their contracts, if there are club or player options, etc.  I'm late for my work, but if somebody can get that info on Cargo or Beltre, it would sure lead to a better discussion.
Cargo has a few years left but Tulo only has one.  I think Beltre is coming near the end of a deal maybe this year and next or 2 more full years at the most.  But, the players that have less time on their deals don't require as much in a trade because of that.  I.E. the trades the Royals made last minute on those players were sort of rent-a-player deals and the Royals didn't cash in as much had they just bitten the bullet and traded them a year earlier.
Tulo has way more than 1 year left.

2014 29 Colorado Rockies $16,000,000
2015 30 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2016 31 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2017 32 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2018 33 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2019 34 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000
2020 35 Colorado Rockies $14,000,000
2021 36 Colorado Rockies *$15,000,000 $15M Team Option, $4M Buyout



Probably too much salary commitment for poor Mr Glass to take on even if it is for easily one of the top 5 position players in the game.

You're acting like there's a huge difference between 1 year left and 7 years left with a team option.

Way to pick nits, man.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 10:29 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 


Adrian Beltre is really the only guy that at least makes some sense for the Royals given only 2 more years of commitment and would provide a definite impact bat at a big position of need, 3B

I'm not sure what the Rangers would want, but it would probably be one top 50 prospect, maybe one top 100 prospect and something else
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/9/2014 10:35 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



wilson123 wrote: Adrian Beltre is really the only guy that at least makes some sense for the Royals given only 2 more years of commitment and would provide a definite impact bat at a big position of need, 3B

I'm not sure what the Rangers would want, but it would probably be one top 50 prospect, maybe one top 100 prospect and something else
The Royals would have to give up a lot more than you think to get Beltre because Glass would require the Rangers pick up a significant portion of his salary.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 10:36 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



wilson123 wrote: Adrian Beltre is really the only guy that at least makes some sense for the Royals given only 2 more years of commitment and would provide a definite impact bat at a big position of need, 3B

I'm not sure what the Rangers would want, but it would probably be one top 50 prospect, maybe one top 100 prospect and something else

If that's all it takes...no reason not to have this done yesterday.  The salary is huge, but will be offset by some guys walking next year and Texas might even eat a little of it.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 10:41 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 



jeffbo88 wrote:
StatCat wrote:
oltrex wrote: There are some big names listed. What is missing is how many years and how much $$$ is left on their contracts, if there are club or player options, etc.  I'm late for my work, but if somebody can get that info on Cargo or Beltre, it would sure lead to a better discussion.

CarGo
2015 29 Colorado Rockies $16,000,000
2016 30 Colorado Rockies $17,000,000
2017 31 Colorado Rockies $20,000,000


Note CarGo has a career road OPS of .760 and a career OPS of 1.024 in Colorado.


Beltre

2015 36 Texas Rangers $18,000,000
2016 37 Texas Rangers *$16,000,000 

2016 is a $16M Vesting Option The Rangers can void 2016 season if Beltre fails to have either 1,200 plate appearances in 2014-15 combined or 600 in 2015.

Not sure why the Rangers would trade Beltre.  They're having a down year but I don't see why they won't gear up and go back at it next year.  Beltre certainly factors into that.  They've been crushed by injuries.

And, as noted, is CarGo really something we'd want to unload a huge package for and trade for that contract, knowing his production outside of Coors?  I wouldn't. 

Short of Stanton (who they won't trade), I'd rather they give up little for small upgrades.  Hell, a Gordon, Dyson, Cain OF might give you 15 WAR this year, if you just put them in there.  And you know they won't remove Moose or Hos, so it's not really worth arguing about.
He's 35 and soon to be on the decline. Why not trade him at the height of his value (well, as high as it can be for a 35 y/o) while having a .900+ OPS season?  Having Gallo tearing it up in the minors doesn't hurt their case either, especially if you turn your head the other way on his K rate. 

Get rid of Beltre's salary if KC is able to take on most of it and get a couple of pretty solid prospects in return? Hell yeah I'm taking that. They have a huge need for starting pitching, so ridding that $16 mil will give them some more cushion to go out and get one of the FA starters hitting the market to pair with Darvish for 2015.

"The one thing I’ve learned about Ned and Dayton both is they are as obsessed with winning as I am. All three of us have a real problem when we lose. Anyone who knows me knows that I’m not just committed to winning, I’m obsessed with winning." -David Glass

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/9/2014 10:41 AM

Re: The Program: Jayson Stark 7/8/14--Teams that will sell 


Moose is hardly our biggest problem, currently. Long term...yes. But we're probably not talking about long-term upgrades right now. We're talking about pieces that can get us over the hump. Plus, Moose is one of only three guys that have provided SOME power in our offense. Further, he's actually been decent - maybe our most patient bat right now - since the return from the minors.

Is there really a bigger hole than our DH and RF when we are against a LHP? We don't need a guy at DH that can only be a singles hitter with no defense. And while our defense suffers a bit, we can't bat Dyson against LH pitching. For as good as he's been against RH pitching, some of his swings at LH's have been painful to watch.

The most sense is someone that can hold down RF on Dyson's off days, hits for power and can DH when he's not playing RF. I have no idea what you do with Aoki, but I think he's probably not going to be key to anything at this point.
Reply | Quote
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 3  Next >