4 years/$48 million. Option for a 5th year for another $12 million.

im sorta confused by Cleveland's offseason

That's a lot of money for a 30 year old outfielder with a career 90 OPS+ and only one season over 100 OPS+. I don't find myself particularly worried about this.

sevreal folks on Twitter seem to think this makes Cleveland the 2nd best team in the AL... Im not seeing it myself, but thats why they play the games

great signing by the indians

wilson123 wrote: great signing by the indians

why do you think its great? im curious because all im seeing is 12 million a year for an average player who is getting older

This is terrible news for us. Any move that makes the Indians better in the short term (and they've made several) lowers our playoff chances. Indians are about as good as we are.

I like that the Indians are going for it. The guy had a 6 WAR last year.

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--- ryansublett wrote:

wilson123 wrote: great signing by the indians

why do you think its great? im curious because all im seeing is 12 million a year for an average player who is getting older

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wilson123 wrote: I like that the Indians are going for it. The guy had a 6 WAR last year.

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--- ryansublett wrote:

wilson123 wrote: great signing by the indians

why do you think its great? im curious because all im seeing is 12 million a year for an average player who is getting older

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Ok, but this doesnt mean Cleveland is "going for it". This doesnt really address any of their issues. they had a good OF. who is pitching for them? His WAR is based almost solely on his legs and defense. I just dont see how this really makes them better than they were yesterday

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--- ryansublett wrote:

wilson123 wrote: I like that the Indians are going for it. The guy had a 6 WAR last year.

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--- ryansublett wrote:

wilson123 wrote: great signing by the indians

why do you think its great? im curious because all im seeing is 12 million a year for an average player who is getting older

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Ok, but this doesnt mean Cleveland is "going for it". This doesnt really address any of their issues. they had a good OF. who is pitching for them? His WAR is based almost solely on his legs and defense. I just dont see how this really makes them better than they were yesterday

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You don't see how replacing Drew Stubbs (making him a very good 4th OF) with Michael Bourn makes them a better team? C'mon...

Cleveland could cause trouble if their starting rotation all do as well as they have in the past.....this is why baseball is a great sport......I still would rather have our rotation than theirs......I'd take our bullpen over theirs too. I don't like the signing because it makes our chances just a little less.....but it's an expensive contract for a guy in the wrongs side of 30. I think we would be pissed if the Royals did this.....especially if it hamstrung us later....

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--- ryansublett wrote:

wilson123 wrote: I like that the Indians are going for it. The guy had a 6 WAR last year.

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--- ryansublett wrote:

wilson123 wrote: great signing by the indians

why do you think its great? im curious because all im seeing is 12 million a year for an average player who is getting older

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Ok, but this doesnt mean Cleveland is "going for it". This doesnt really address any of their issues. they had a good OF. who is pitching for them? His WAR is based almost solely on his legs and defense. I just dont see how this really makes them better than they were yesterday

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I think it's good signing by them.  He has shown the ability to put up a .350 OBP and steal 60 bases, not to mention the fact that he will be a defense upgrade over Stubs/Brantley.  They have young pitching coming & they have already said the TV money is giving them this opportunity to spend more.  Remember what happened last year when they dropped back to 2nd/3rd in the division?  Their fans took a Cleveland steamer right on this teams attendance & their front office is smart enough to know they better give the fans a reason to think they will be competitive.  Looking at their everyday players vs ours:

1b: Hosmer = Reynolds: Reynolds floor is higher, but Hosmer's ceiling is higher.  
2b: Gio/Getz < Kipnis: his 15HR pop gives him the nod for me though he strikes out a ton.
SS: Esky > Cabrera: Esky's defense is amazing, but Cabrera's pop keeps this close.
3b: Moose > Chisenhall: Chisenhall has 350 MLB ab's, Moose by a mile hopefully.
DH: Billy > McHuiness: The kid is a rookie & Big Country eats rookies for breakfast.
C: Perez > Santana: Santana is a great catcher, but you can't go against Perez.
LF: Gordon > Brantley/Stubbs: Gordon is in his prime, but great D all around.
CF: Cain < Bourn: Cain can't stay healthy & Bourn can.
RF: Frenchy < Swisher: By far Cleveland's biggest advantage. 
Manager: Yost < Francona: Yost's wife wouldn't even pick Yost over Tito.

I still think our lineup is better, but surely Cleveland will pick up an upgrade at DH somewhere and make our lineups even closer.

rustyz wrote:



You don't see how replacing Drew Stubbs (making him a very good 4th OF) with Michael Bourn makes them a better team? C'mon...

Sure Bourn is an upgrade over Stubbs. If thats what you mean by "better" then your right. My point is though that no one was talking about Cleveland as the 2nd best team in the centreal really, and now all the sudden adding Bourn changes that? sorry but no

There offense should be fine, but once again I ask who is pitching for them? They had a worse team ERA than the Royals, and unless I missed something their only change to the starting staff was Trevor Bauer who has potential, but far from proven. They should score more runs than they did last year, but as we found out last year if you cant pitch doesnt really matter

It's the pitching that will separate KC vs Cle. Cle potential maybe > KC, but odds are KC > Cle. It's a good signing though, it might not be when he's 34 though.....

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--- BurgRoyal wrote:

I think it's good signing by them.  He has shown the ability to put up a .350 OBP and steal 60 bases, not to mention the fact that he will be a defense upgrade over Stubs/Brantley.  They have young pitching coming & they have already said the TV money is giving them this opportunity to spend more.  Remember what happened last year when they dropped back to 2nd/3rd in the division?  Their fans took a Cleveland steamer right on this teams attendance & their front office is smart enough to know they better give the fans a reason to think they will be competitive.  Looking at their everyday players vs ours:

1b: Hosmer = Reynolds: Reynolds floor is higher, but Hosmer's ceiling is higher.  
2b: Gio/Getz SS: Esky > Cabrera: Esky's defense is amazing, but Cabrera's pop keeps this close. 3b: Moose > Chisenhall: Chisenhall has 350 MLB ab's, Moose by a mile hopefully. DH: Billy > McHuiness: The kid is a rookie & Big Country eats rookies for breakfast. C: Perez > Santana: Santana is a great catcher, but you can't go against Perez. LF: Gordon > Brantley/Stubbs: Gordon is in his prime, but great D all around. CF: Cain RF: Frenchy Manager: Yost I still think our lineup is better, but surely Cleveland will pick up an upgrade at DH somewhere and make our lineups even closer. ---------------------------------------------

BurgRoyal wrote: I think it's good signing by them.  He has shown the ability to put up a .350 OBP and steal 60 bases

hes only put up an OBP of .350 or higher twice in his career. his career OBP is about .340 which kinda sucks when thats really your only offensive skill... Bourn is better than Stubbs I do agree there. Does it make Cleveland a contender? no. There pitching has to be significantly better for that to happen. They had a worse team ERA than the Royals last year... think about that

3 of the last 4 years he has put up pretty much a .350 OBP, I would take the odds of him as being at that this year.  I sure hope they are considered a somewhat contender, because we aren't much better than they are.  

ryansublett wrote:

BurgRoyal wrote: I think it's good signing by them.  He has shown the ability to put up a .350 OBP and steal 60 bases

hes only put up an OBP of .350 or higher twice in his career. his career OBP is about .340 which kinda sucks when thats really your only offensive skill... Bourn is better than Stubbs I do agree there. Does it make Cleveland a contender? no. There pitching has to be significantly better for that to happen. They had a worse team ERA than the Royals last year... think about that

BurgRoyal wrote: 
Manager: Yost < Francona: Yost's wife wouldn't even pick Yost over Tito.

Doubt it.  Francona may be the better manager, but I heard Yost is hung like a mule.

BurgRoyal wrote: 3 of the last 4 years he has put up pretty much a .350 OBP, I would take the odds of him as being at that this year.  I sure hope they are considered a somewhat contender, because we aren't much better than they are.  

 

see I disagree. We were 4 games better than they were last year, and our pitching should be much better than last year. Our offense should improve as well

Cleveland's offense is probably slightly better than last year. Pitching is probably about the same. Maybe im wrong time will tell, but I see the Royals as significantly better this year than Cleveland... If they had spent some money on pitching then it would be a different story

How many games do you think kc finishes ahead of cleveland, ryan? I think theyre even. I love all of their pickups in the short term.

Well they added Brett Myers too, but your point still stands: our pitching appears to be superior to theirs.
The problem is they are definitely a better team now than they were before Bourn. And even though Myers isn't that special, he again made them a better team. Swish, Bauer, etc. too.
They don't need to be better than us - just better, period - to lower our (already tenous) playoff chances.

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--- ryansublett wrote:

rustyz wrote:



You don't see how replacing Drew Stubbs (making him a very good 4th OF) with Michael Bourn makes them a better team? C'mon...

Sure Bourn is an upgrade over Stubbs. If thats what you mean by "better" then your right. My point is though that no one was talking about Cleveland as the 2nd best team in the centreal really, and now all the sudden adding Bourn changes that? sorry but no

There offense should be fine, but once again I ask who is pitching for them? They had a worse team ERA than the Royals, and unless I missed something their only change to the starting staff was Trevor Bauer who has potential, but far from proven. They should score more runs than they did last year, but as we found out last year if you cant pitch doesnt really matter

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