Good article about how mozeliak uses advanced stats. I hate when the team I hate is so much better than the one I love...

espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/pos...se-sabermetrics

Why do so many Royals fans hate the Cardinals? They play in the other league and the last time we played a meaningful game against them, we won.

It is not really the Cardinals franchise, but more their stereotypical fan, that many cannot stand. I know I went to college with a ton of them and many do fit the stereotype. There are franchises that win, but don't have to rub your face in it. Cardinal fans have this insane desire to get you to admit that they are the greatest.

I had a buddy tell me after the 2006 World Series....
"Even you, you HAVE TO ADMIT that the Cardinals are the greatest franchise in baseball...you just have to!"
Me: "I don't HAVE to admit anything bud."
Friend: "Yes, you HAVE to admit it...no one is better!"
Me: "Get over yourself..."
Friend: "But....but...dude what's your problem?"
Me: {hanging up the phone}

Another buddy said this gem one time.
"I think we are not only the greatest fans, but we have the greatest stadium, our players are great, with great tradition. We have the best of everything!"
Me: "How do you know if you're the best? You ever seen a game in any other stadium? Know any other teams' roster? Who is the closer for the Texas Rangers?"
Friend: "Yeah I have been to one or two stadiums...who cares...why do I need to know who is on another team?"
Me: "You just told me your the best! How do you know if you are the best if you don't have anything to measure it against?"
Friend: "I DON'T CARE! Even if we didn't have the the best ballpark hot dogs, I'd say we did! That is just how we are."
Me: {Shaking my head} "I can't debate with a person devoid of all logic. Knock yourself out..."

Sometimes I wonder why I went to school in mid-Missouri...it was downright torture to a Royals fan.

GeorgeBrettsPineTar wrote: It is not really the Cardinals franchise, but more their stereotypical fan, that many cannot stand. I know I went to college with a ton of them and many do fit the stereotype. There are franchises that win, but don't have to rub your face in it. Cardinal fans have this insane desire to get you to admit that they are the greatest.

I had a buddy tell me after the 2006 World Series....
"Even you, you HAVE TO ADMIT that the Cardinals are the greatest franchise in baseball...you just have to!"
Me: "I don't HAVE to admit anything bud."
Friend: "Yes, you HAVE to admit it...no one is better!"
Me: "Get over yourself..."
Friend: "But....but...dude what's your problem?"
Me: {hanging up the phone}

Another buddy said this gem one time.
"I think we are not only the greatest fans, but we have the greatest stadium, our players are great, with great tradition. We have the best of everything!"
Me: "How do you know if you're the best? You ever seen a game in any other stadium? Know any other teams' roster? Who is the closer for the Texas Rangers?"
Friend: "Yeah I have been to one or two stadiums...who cares...why do I need to know who is on another team?"
Me: "You just told me your the best! How do you know if you are the best if you don't have anything to measure it against?"
Friend: "I DON'T CARE! Even if we didn't have the the best ballpark hot dogs, I'd say we did! That is just how we are."
Me: {Shaking my head} "I can't debate with a person devoid of all logic. Knock yourself out..."

Sometimes I wonder why I went to school in mid-Missouri...it was downright torture to a Royals fan.

Every team has fans like that...at least teams who are good. Royals fans just think Cardinals fans are d*cks because they know more of them, just like how Missouri fans think KU fans are d*cks and vice versa. Each fan base has their good apples and bad apples.

Cardinals are a damn good franchise you have to admit. They have a way of finding a happy medium of being able to develop enough players while at the same time spending enough to fill missing slots or resign their stars. They also have a way of turning starting pitchers who should suck into pretty damn good ones, but I think that probably has much more to do with other factors such as their defense rather than them just being "lucky."

I hate St. Louis. I hate everything about it. I hate the people from there. I want the Cardinals to lose 162 games every year so that many of the St. Louis residents go into a deep depression and question everything about their lives.

Everything that is wrong with the state of Missouri could be solved if we gave St. Louis to Illinois. Then, Illinois could have the two biggest standing sh!t holes in the country not named Detroit.

But yes, they are a very well run organization. Which pisses me off to no end.

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--- SpringtownRoyal wrote:

I hate St. Louis. I hate everything about it. I hate the people from there. I want the Cardinals to lose 162 games every year so that many of the St. Louis residents go into a deep depression and question everything about their lives.

Everything that is wrong with the state of Missouri could be solved if we gave St. Louis to Illinois. Then, Illinois could have the two biggest standing sh!t holes in the country not named Detroit.

But yes, they are a very well run organization. Which pisses me off to no end.

---------------------------------------------

Lies! I have personally witnessed this gentleman attend a Springfield Cardinals game! Granted, it was against the NWA Naturals, but I choose to ignore that

SpringtownRoyal wrote: I hate St. Louis. I hate everything about it. I hate the people from there. I want the Cardinals to lose 162 games every year so that many of the St. Louis residents go into a deep depression and question everything about their lives.

What if they have Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota, and the Chicago White Sox on their schedule?

The Cardinals, a traditional scouting organization, have a GM speaking intelligently about defensive metrics and the future of Field F/X. Dayton, on the other hand, admittedly has said in the recent past that he doesn't understand defensive metrics. Oh, and the Royals finished 28th in turning balls in play into outs last year. A big reason for this is Yuni and Frenchy, who Dayton has touted as good defensive players while everyone else on the planet knows they both have terrible range.

Idk why I felt the need to criticize Dayton in this thread, must be that time of the month. But reading any sabermetric article about other organizations drives me insane.

gilmeche55 wrote: Oh, and the Royals finished 28th in turning balls in play into outs last year. A big reason for this is Yuni and Frenchy, who Dayton has touted as good defensive players while everyone else on the planet knows they both have terrible range.

Yep. And if Francoeur is just as bad with the bat this year as he was last (and he needs to be WAY better), then they'd be much better just putting a defensive specialist out there whoever that may be. Dyson has solid speed, but speed and range don't always seem to equal each other. He had quite a few screw ups last year in center if I recall correctly. He could easily match Francoeur's sub .700 OPS vs LHP and RHP though.

gilmeche55 wrote: The Cardinals, a traditional scouting organization, have a GM speaking intelligently about defensive metrics and the future of Field F/X. Dayton, on the other hand, admittedly has said in the recent past that he doesn't understand defensive metrics. Oh, and the Royals finished 28th in turning balls in play into outs last year. A big reason for this is Yuni and Frenchy, who Dayton has touted as good defensive players while everyone else on the planet knows they both have terrible range.

One of the real frustrating parts of the article was where it talked about how the Cardinals implemented this strategy starting in 2004, and it has taken years to get to this point. Meanwhile, the article also talks about how it won't be long before the stats side no longer has an edge, as everyone catches up.

I could be wrong on the exact date but it seems like the Royals started down this path in earnest in 2011, 7 years after the Cardinals. Just think, by the time we have finally built a real department, with real data, the edge of having it will no longer exist.

This lack of foresight and "out of the box" thinking is what has plagued this organization more than anything else over the past 7 years. We will never have the dollars to go toe to toe with the big boys, so we better damn well look for an edge somewhere else.

GeorgeBrettsPineTar wrote: It is not really the Cardinals franchise, but more their stereotypical fan, that many cannot stand. I know I went to college with a ton of them and many do fit the stereotype. 

Yup, I had nothing against St. Louis until I went to college and began interacting with a bunch of folks from there. I noticed a few things. First, for whatever reason, it was VERY important where they went to high school. I suppose that was largely because far more of them went to private schools, but the cliquish nature of their behavior seemed absurd. 

And second, their behavior about the Cardinals was almost universally obnoxious -- and this was almost a decade before they finally won a title in 2006. I can't even imagine what it must be like for KC undergrads nowadays who get their first exposure to folks from St. Louis in college. Must be completely unbearable.

RoyalsCorner wrote:

GeorgeBrettsPineTar wrote: It is not really the Cardinals franchise, but more their stereotypical fan, that many cannot stand. I know I went to college with a ton of them and many do fit the stereotype. 

Yup, I had nothing against St. Louis until I went to college and began interacting with a bunch of folks from there. I noticed a few things. First, for whatever reason, it was VERY important where they went to high school. I suppose that was largely because far more of them went to private schools, but the cliquish nature of their behavior seemed absurd. 

And second, their behavior about the Cardinals was almost universally obnoxious -- and this was almost a decade before they finally won a title in 2006. I can't even imagine what it must be like for KC undergrads nowadays who get their first exposure to folks from St. Louis in college. Must be completely unbearable.

Yup.  I had pleasure of being in school at Missouri State in 2006. 

October sucked.

St Louiserville Cardinals...2006 was tainted with ROID boy Pujols

That stadium feels cheap and has no soul.

This mirrors my experiences pretty well, RC.  When I arrived at Mizzou in the late-80s, STL was just the place where Bud was brewed.

4yrs later, and after living with 3 dudes from STL for 2 of those years, I f*cking hate everything associated with that sh!thole town, the arrogant, stuck-up douchebags that are from there, and their ridiculous belief that they're equivalent to Chicago or Boston.

One night, one of my roommates & I were discussing (not arguing, discussing) the '85 series...I mentioned something about how those lousy Redbirds couldn't hit KC pitching the whole series, and that maybe they weren't as good as he thought...I may have dropped a few curse words in the mix.  He tackled me and ended up sitting on my chest choking me until another roommate (from Texas) literally hit him in the head with a frying pan.  "Don't EVER talk sh!t about my Cardinals, I'll f*cking KILL YOU!"  was echoing through the house for a while after that.  This is a guy I lived with for 3yrs, got drunk with a thousand times, had dinner at his parents house, exchanged Xmas gifts, etc.

Yeah, best fans ever.  And after all their obvious success and luck, they STILL cannot get over 1985.

RoyalsCorner wrote:

GeorgeBrettsPineTar wrote: It is not really the Cardinals franchise, but more their stereotypical fan, that many cannot stand. I know I went to college with a ton of them and many do fit the stereotype. 

Yup, I had nothing against St. Louis until I went to college and began interacting with a bunch of folks from there. I noticed a few things. First, for whatever reason, it was VERY important where they went to high school. I suppose that was largely because far more of them went to private schools, but the cliquish nature of their behavior seemed absurd. 

And second, their behavior about the Cardinals was almost universally obnoxious -- and this was almost a decade before they finally won a title in 2006. I can't even imagine what it must be like for KC undergrads nowadays who get their first exposure to folks from St. Louis in college. Must be completely unbearable.

I never had a problem with Cards fans while I went to school in Missouri. Most of them we're so used to winning they didn't care that much, like they wouldn't really watch games until the playoffs, and even then there wasn't much discussion until the World Series.

That's pretty WT.

MrMorden wrote: This mirrors my experiences pretty well, RC.  When I arrived at Mizzou in the late-80s, STL was just the place where Bud was brewed.

4yrs later, and after living with 3 dudes from STL for 2 of those years, I f*cking hate everything associated with that sh!thole town, the arrogant, stuck-up douchebags that are from there, and their ridiculous belief that they're equivalent to Chicago or Boston.

One night, one of my roommates & I were discussing (not arguing, discussing) the '85 series...I mentioned something about how those lousy Redbirds couldn't hit KC pitching the whole series, and that maybe they weren't as good as he thought...I may have dropped a few curse words in the mix.  He tackled me and ended up sitting on my chest choking me until another roommate (from Texas) literally hit him in the head with a frying pan.  "Don't EVER talk sh!t about my Cardinals, I'll f*cking KILL YOU!"  was echoing through the house for a while after that.  This is a guy I lived with for 3yrs, got drunk with a thousand times, had dinner at his parents house, exchanged Xmas gifts, etc.

Yeah, best fans ever.  And after all their obvious success and luck, they STILL cannot get over 1985.

RoyalsCorner wrote:

GeorgeBrettsPineTar wrote: It is not really the Cardinals franchise, but more their stereotypical fan, that many cannot stand. I know I went to college with a ton of them and many do fit the stereotype. 

Yup, I had nothing against St. Louis until I went to college and began interacting with a bunch of folks from there. I noticed a few things. First, for whatever reason, it was VERY important where they went to high school. I suppose that was largely because far more of them went to private schools, but the cliquish nature of their behavior seemed absurd. 

And second, their behavior about the Cardinals was almost universally obnoxious -- and this was almost a decade before they finally won a title in 2006. I can't even imagine what it must be like for KC undergrads nowadays who get their first exposure to folks from St. Louis in college. Must be completely unbearable.

Cards announced today Chris Carpenter probably wont pitch this year.

They have a ton of production to replace this year

Kyle Loshe
Wont have carpenter
Lance Berkman

and then youll be counting on some older players like Furcal and Beltran to do what they did last year... I kknow they have some good prospects, but you never know what you might get from a rookie(see hos last year)... Im sure theyll pull a guy or two out of their ass they always have, but still

ryansublett wrote: Cards announced today Chris Carpenter probably wont pitch this year.

They have a ton of production to replace this year

Kyle Loshe
Wont have carpenter
Lance Berkman

and then youll be counting on some older players like Furcal and Beltran to do what they did last year... I kknow they have some good prospects, but you never know what you might get from a rookie(see hos last year)... Im sure theyll pull a guy or two out of their ass they always have, but still

If Mitch Maier was on their postseason roster I guarantee he'd win NLCS MVP or some sh*t.