with incentives up to 4 million

Damn.

Should have traded Myers when we had the chance.

So if he pitches well, he gets Luke Hochevar money.  If Luke Hochevar pitches like $hit, he gets, well, Luke Hochevar money.

Or you can put up a 5.07 ERA last year and have the Royals trade for you and pay you 13 million, only in KC

Crisis averted.

But....but...Luke says he's watched video of last season and has it figured out!

I'm going to get run out of here....but I'm optimistic about Luke.  I've always thought he was going to turn into something good.  Clearly now that he's 29 and has performed like one of the worst starters (who actually gets innings) in the game, I'm not as sure.  It has to be better than last year, right?  Right?

nick05 wrote: But....but...Luke says he's watched video of last season and has it figured out!

I hope so.  His problem is simple.....he's a pitch tipper.  No other explanation I can come up with when I watch him.  Great stuff, location, etc. 

- the DUKE

mas5588 wrote: I'm going to get run out of here....but I'm optimistic about Luke.  I've always thought he was going to turn into something good.  Clearly now that he's 29 and has performed like one of the worst starters (who actually gets innings) in the game, I'm not as sure.  It has to be better than last year, right?  Right?

To be fair, I find it unlikely that Hochevar would be as bad as he was last year ERA-wise.  I doubt his overall pitching changes: he will continue to throw the occasional gem, a few quality starts, and a few starts where he is lit up for 5 runs in the 3rd inning, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him return to 2010-2011 form with an ERA in the mid to upper 4s... meh.  I'm just sick of seeing that empty space between his abundant ears wasting his talent and those cringe worthy meltdowns.  Would rather just see Mendoza or Chen.

DukePoplar wrote:

nick05 wrote: But....but...Luke says he's watched video of last season and has it figured out!

I hope so.  His problem is simple.....he's a pitch tipper.  No other explanation I can come up with when I watch him.  Great stuff, location, etc. 

- the DUKE

You and I have been through this before, and I don't want to re-open the old debate (which you won, Hochevar has sucked after I said he would be good). 

But I thought you didn't like his combination of pitches.  Something about the sinker/slider being a bad combo?

ElChupanibre wrote:

mas5588 wrote: I'm going to get run out of here....but I'm optimistic about Luke.  I've always thought he was going to turn into something good.  Clearly now that he's 29 and has performed like one of the worst starters (who actually gets innings) in the game, I'm not as sure.  It has to be better than last year, right?  Right?

To be fair, I find it unlikely that Hochevar would be as bad as he was last year ERA-wise.  I doubt his overall pitching changes: he will continue to throw the occasional gem, a few quality starts, and a few starts where he is lit up for 5 runs in the 3rd inning, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him return to 2010-2011 form with an ERA in the mid to upper 4s... meh.  I'm just sick of seeing that empty space between his abundant ears wasting his talent and those cringe worthy meltdowns.  Would rather just see Mendoza or Chen.

I doubt he'll be as bad as last year either either.  The best Hochevar has done is an ERA in the mid to upper 4s as you mention (i.e., a #4 starter at best).  So, if we consider that the best case scenario, then the Royals are likely throwing money down the drain as they have several guys who could do the same for less money.  Luke is a guy who always underperforms based on his perpherials.  But, even if he starts to pitch like his perpherials indicate, he's an average pitcher at best.  The worst case scenario with Hochevar is pretty bad, and he can give you a month or two of unwinnable games every 5 days.

im not a Hoch fan, and think he should of been non tendered. However, we dont need Hoch to be the #1 guy this year. If he can just be decent and give the team a chance to win more often than he doesn't he'll have some value to the club... Despite my extreme dislike for Hoch I think he can at least do that

the differance this year is that hoch will not have to eat innings. you can pull him as soon as he gets in trouble, instead of leaving him out there to figure it out or to rest the bullpen that pitched 10 innings the previous 2 days.

i am going way out on a small stick here. LUKE WILL BE FINE THIS YEAR.

jerdrew22 wrote: the differance this year is that hoch will not have to eat innings. you can pull him as soon as he gets in trouble, instead of leaving him out there to figure it out or to rest the bullpen that pitched 10 innings the previous 2 days.

i am going way out on a small stick here. LUKE WILL BE FINE THIS YEAR.

thats a key point. With the addition of Shields thats going to save the pen a ton. It will allow Yost to have a shorter leash with Hoch, Chen and anyone else in the last two spots. As much as you might disagree with Yost he couldnt really manage last year with his starters going 4 innings consistently

Gbwoy wrote:

DukePoplar wrote:

nick05 wrote: But....but...Luke says he's watched video of last season and has it figured out!

I hope so.  His problem is simple.....he's a pitch tipper.  No other explanation I can come up with when I watch him.  Great stuff, location, etc. 

- the DUKE

You and I have been through this before, and I don't want to re-open the old debate (which you won, Hochevar has sucked after I said he would be good). 

But I thought you didn't like his combination of pitches.  Something about the sinker/slider being a bad combo?

I never liked his sinker/slider combo as his primary repertoire.  He has a really nice 4-seam fastball that touches 97mph that he rarely used after college.  Heck,the Royals drafted the pitcher who threw the 4-seamer, but ended up with a sinkerballer when he showed up to camp.  That was always my beef.....well.....until he started using the 4-seamer more last season.  Some success was had, but it certainly didn't fix him.  So in a way we were both wrong.  

-the DUKE

jerdrew22 wrote: the differance this year is that hoch will not have to eat innings. you can pull him as soon as he gets in trouble, instead of leaving him out there to figure it out or to rest the bullpen that pitched 10 innings the previous 2 days.

i am going way out on a small stick here. LUKE WILL BE FINE THIS YEAR.

That is one of my hopes for a mental change in Hochevar.  Maybe with more talent in the rotation this season, he won't feel like he has to try and be an ace, which he clearly isn't.  He is still 29 and hasn't shown much in the way of improvement.  I just don't think he's a late bloomer who the Royals think he is. Luke's lack of consistency is a problem that he has never figured out.  Think change of scenery would help him and help the Royals move forward.  Would rather see Chen or Mendoza in 5th spot.  Move Hochevar and let him have a another shot in NL.  Some team will be looking for pitching late in spring when injuries crop up.

I think if there is a 15% chance (generous?) he figures it out and becomes a legit number two is worth the risk of a few starts. If he burns, you pull that very short leash and put the next guy in......
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--- Revisroyalsfan wrote:

jerdrew22 wrote: the differance this year is that hoch will not have to eat innings. you can pull him as soon as he gets in trouble, instead of leaving him out there to figure it out or to rest the bullpen that pitched 10 innings the previous 2 days.

i am going way out on a small stick here. LUKE WILL BE FINE THIS YEAR.

That is one of my hopes for a mental change in Hochevar.  Maybe with more talent in the rotation this season, he won't feel like he has to try and be an ace, which he clearly isn't.  He is still 29 and hasn't shown much in the way of improvement.  I just don't think he's a late bloomer who the Royals think he is. Luke's lack of consistency is a problem that he has never figured out.  Think change of scenery would help him and help the Royals move forward.  Would rather see Chen or Mendoza in 5th spot.  Move Hochevar and let him have a another shot in NL.  Some team will be looking for pitching late in spring when injuries crop up.

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I would think that a full year of Sal should help Hoch significantly, if pitch combination is really at fault.

Anyone willing to put the time in and take out hoch's worst 2 or 3 starts and see what his stats are? I seem to remember 2 or 3 nine runs allowed games. How did he do in his other 28 or so starts?

I will BOLDLY go on record and predict Hoch will be one of the top #5 starters in MLB this year.  I can't predict what team he will be pitching for though.