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Starting pitcher prices crazy
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- LAROYAL
- Kansas City Royal
- 1107 posts this site
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Posted: 12/21/2012 12:19 PM
Starting pitcher prices crazy
When you look at the prices free agent starters are getting its a shock they are so inflated. Liriano gets 7.5 mil per for 2 years or $227,000 per start for a below average pitcher that has a limited following. Edwin Jackson's 13 mil per year for 4 years is a mighty strech. Thats $400,000 per start. Cubs are nuts. Must be the Hendry disease Theo caught. Zach's contract was huge and maybe he commands the following in Hollywood.
What is clear is the Royals will never compete in the free agent market for starting pitching with those prices. Guthrie and Shields and Wade Davis seem reasonable now.
For a decent staff of a starting five a team must commit around 40-50 mil in todays world.
Starting pitching prices are a kingly ransom today. Mediocrity is getting well paid. Aces are almost untouchable.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 12:26 PM
Re: Starting pitcher prices crazy
Shhh
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Posted: 12/21/2012 12:46 PM
Re: Starting pitcher prices crazy
The prices for starting pitching are beyond crazy which only magnifies the inability for the Royals player development to be corrected. For a market and owner like KC has, the Royals can't/won't spend crazy dollars like are being dropped now. I agree Shields, Davis and Guthrie are looking like bargains and not blue light specials. (Sorry I dropped a KMart reference into the Walmart drive Royals post - couldn't help it).
Teams like the A's and Rays seems to have the ability to develop or acquire young starting pitching which allows them to deal guys who are beyond their ability to pay like a Gio Gonzalez or James Shields. KC's long term success depends on their need to fix whatever is wrong in the system whether it's scouting, injury prevention, development, or philosophies. Whatever they are doing in the past hasn't worked. |
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Posted: 12/21/2012 12:53 PM
Re: Starting pitcher prices crazy
Almost makes aquiring two starters for a bunch of "prospects" worthy. Almost. Still think we overpaid.....but it's starting to look like DM paid market prices for starters.....
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Posted: 12/21/2012 12:54 PM
Re: Starting pitcher prices crazy
This is why MLB NEEDS a floor and ceiling salary cap. It's simply unfair for small market teams to be COMPLETELY dependent on developing stars through their system, especially when big market teams can steal those developed prospects, while at the same time developing their own prospects in their system.
This is why teams like the Pirates and Royals have sucked for such a long period of time. There are other attributes such as not being able to develop players and bad trades, but they would have definitely done better if there was a floor and ceiling cap. This also keeps teams like the Marlins from fire selling. If you can't field a competitive team and spend enough, then you shouldn't have ownership of a MLB franchise.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 1:01 PM
Re: Starting pitcher prices crazy
kerg01 wrote: Almost makes aquiring two starters for a bunch of "prospects" worthy. Almost. Still think we overpaid.....but it's starting to look like DM paid market prices for starters..... Atlanta has traded away a bunch of prospects in the last 15 years Very few have gone on to do anything very big Its always the "bird in the hand " thing with them and they bust their tails to develop those prospects |
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Posted: 12/21/2012 1:01 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
Someone's going to figure out how to build a good staff of guys who pitch 3-4 innings on shorter rest in lieu of the traditional "starter."
It won't be the Royals. But someone will figure it out and baseball will be changed forever.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 1:06 PM
Re: Starting pitcher prices crazy
I almost wonder if teams could get away with only 3-4 starters, limiting their IP to an average of 6 per start. You could make a case of that being over training and a greater risk of injury, but there's no data that I'm aware of that shows the optimal rest time between starts.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 1:13 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
The Royals (and most other teams) have a glut of pitchers capable of pitching 3 effective innings but not 7.
Pick the best 6, each pitching 3-4 innings every third day. You skip all the between start work that doesn't count. You use the rest of your pitching slots to build a bullpen for innings 7 thru 9.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 1:13 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
you think this is bad? just wait til next year when the tv money kicks in. Luke will be a FA. 3 years, 54 million...i just feel it.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 1:16 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
TompkinsIndustries wrote: The Royals (and most other teams) have a glut of pitchers capable of pitching 3 effective innings but not 7.
Pick the best 6, each pitching 3-4 innings every third day. You skip all the between start work that doesn't count. You use the rest of your pitching slots to build a bullpen for innings 7 thru 9. It would be interesting to take a sample size of 70 starting pitchers and compare their ERA in innings 1-3 vs. 4-6 or 7 to compare. I suppose you would also have to keep in mind that if they knew they were only going three, they wouldn't have to "save as much," although I'm not sure how big of a difference that would really make. |
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Posted: 12/21/2012 2:10 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
Back to the topic, Tom Gorzelanny just signed a 2/5.7 year deal less than 2 months after he was non-tendered. He was expected to earn 2.8MM in arbitration. That would almost be like the Royals non-tendering Hoch to avoid a ~4.4MM arbitration cost and then some team signing Hoch to a 2/9 year deal. Completely insane. Any team could have thrown the Nationals a filler prospect and gotten him for less guaranteed money just a couple months ago. Speaking of the Nationals, they completely misread the market with Jackson (not to mention Gorzelanny). Just threw away a comp pick by not giving a qualifying offer. There is no way he was going to take it. Somebody in that front office should be looking for a new job based on that cluster****.
Last edited 12/21/2012 2:44 PM by ElChupanibre
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- LAROYAL
- Kansas City Royal
- 1107 posts this site
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Posted: 12/21/2012 6:10 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
Soriano is hoping he is a starter now. He turns down 13 million and is hamstrung by a draft pick compensation that is suddenly worth more than ever. How as a reliever do you turn down 13 million? With 40 saves that's about $325,000 a save or 108,000 an out or how about $4000 a pitch (avg). He's good but he's not Mariano. Baseball is helping drive inflation. TV deals or whatever, commercials are driving sales and the frenzied selling of products is what this marvelous land is becoming all about. We as consumers inevitably pay in the end- right in the end.
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- LAROYAL
- Kansas City Royal
- 1107 posts this site
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Posted: 12/21/2012 6:14 PM
Re: Starting pitcher prices crazy
I am a big proponent of the 3-4 inning starting pitcher tandem team. Pair guys up, go lefty- righty, craft and power. LaRussa would have a field day with that. Only thing is you would need to expand the roster 4-5 more slots to accomodate all the arms needed to implement. One day someone will commit to it but roster expansion would be a must.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 7:32 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
TompkinsIndustries wrote: The Royals (and most other teams) have a glut of pitchers capable of pitching 3 effective innings but not 7.
Pick the best 6, each pitching 3-4 innings every third day. You skip all the between start work that doesn't count. You use the rest of your pitching slots to build a bullpen for innings 7 thru 9. its not a terrible idea if you struggle with pitching, but if you have guys like Griekie, Verlander, Fielx, even sheilds, etc who go 7-9 innings consistently seems like a waste to only use them 3-4 innings per time out. Plus youd need to carry more pitchers... Everyone seems so caught up in finding the next "new" thing that I think were over thinking things |
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Posted: 12/21/2012 9:34 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
TompkinsIndustries wrote: The Royals (and most other teams) have a glut of pitchers capable of pitching 3 effective innings but not 7.
Pick the best 6, each pitching 3-4 innings every third day. You skip all the between start work that doesn't count. You use the rest of your pitching slots to build a bullpen for innings 7 thru 9. The Rockies tried something similiar this year going to a 4 man with a 75 pitch limit. It did not go that swimmingly for them, albit there are some mitigating circumstances there. |
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Posted: 12/21/2012 10:49 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
Based on the excellent comments in this thread on pitchers' salaries, if Wade Davis ends up being a quality starter, then we really got a deal money-wise and control wise.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 11:00 PM
RE: Starting pitcher prices crazy
This is IMO but I think the best *value deals* this year (so far) are the dbacks getting Brandon McCarty two years at 15.5 mil (yes I know he's injury prone) and the cubbies deal with Carlos Villaneuva two years 10 million.
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- LAROYAL
- Kansas City Royal
- 1107 posts this site
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Posted: 12/22/2012 12:07 AM
Re: Starting pitcher prices crazy
I look at it this way. Would you pay Edwin Jackson $400,000 if he was a rock star giving a concert? Thats what that celebrity is getting to start one game. Bob Hope in his prime worked for less. Wow! Jackson 400,000 cannolies for an appearance and they don't even do that many facial closeups. And Raphael Soriano wants 300,000 for a 3 out save. That's what movie stars get for 20 minutes of work. Something is a little haywire moneywise here. I live in Los Angleles but baseball is more Hollywood than Hollywood these days!
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Posted: 12/22/2012 7:22 AM
Re: Starting pitcher prices crazy
At some point you guys are going to have to realize no one is "overpaying" and these prices aren't "crazy". This is the market price for pitching. Revenues are up. It's not anyone else in baseballs fault that our tv contract sucks so bad. If one or two pitchers were getting "crazy" contracts and everyone else's were normal maybe I'd agree, but when it's nearly every pitcher that means this is the normal, going rate. Get used to it.
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