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Jeff Francoeur in right field
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Posted: 12/13/2012 6:36 AM
Jeff Francoeur in right field
Royals general manager Dayton Moore said that Jeff Francoeur is slated to be the team's starting right fielder again in 2013.
They don't have many good options after trading Wil Myers to the Rays. Francoeur was a surprisingly good fantasy producer in 2011 when he batted .285 while notching a 20/20 campaign. He fell off the cliff in 2012, hitting just .235 with a .287 OBP and 16 homers, but the Royals are confident he can bounce back. We're not so sure. Dec 12 - 7:21 PM
Last edited 12/13/2012 6:40 AM by WheelingEagle
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:24 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
--------------------------------------------- --- WheelingEagle wrote: Royals general manager Dayton Moore said that Jeff Francoeur is slated to be the team's starting right fielder again in 2013.
They don't have many good options after trading Wil Myers to the Rays. Francoeur was a surprisingly good fantasy producer in 2011 when he batted .285 while notching a 20/20 campaign. He fell off the cliff in 2012, hitting just .235 with a .287 OBP and 16 homers, but the Royals are confident he can bounce back. We're not so sure. Dec 12 - 7:21 PM --------------------------------------------- Francouer is a good candidate for a bounce back year. It is his contract year and most people improve significantly during a contract year. Frenchy is only 28 years old. There is no reason he can't be an average or better RF. |
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:28 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
CooterBailey wrote:
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--- WheelingEagle wrote:
Royals general manager Dayton Moore said that Jeff Francoeur is slated to be the team's starting right fielder again in 2013.
They don't have many good options after trading Wil Myers to the Rays. Francoeur was a surprisingly good fantasy producer in 2011 when he batted .285 while notching a 20/20 campaign. He fell off the cliff in 2012, hitting just .235 with a .287 OBP and 16 homers, but the Royals are confident he can bounce back. We're not so sure. Dec 12 - 7:21 PM
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Francouer is a good candidate for a bounce back year. It is his contract year and most people improve significantly during a contract year. Frenchy is only 28 years old. There is no reason he can't be an average or better RF. I was led to believe that his bad year was due to slow, fat, baserunner(s) in front of him. We should get rid of the slow, fat, baserunner(s) in front of him and he'll get his RBIs. |
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:40 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
CooterBailey wrote:
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--- WheelingEagle wrote:
Royals general manager Dayton Moore said that Jeff Francoeur is slated to be the team's starting right fielder again in 2013.
They don't have many good options after trading Wil Myers to the Rays. Francoeur was a surprisingly good fantasy producer in 2011 when he batted .285 while notching a 20/20 campaign. He fell off the cliff in 2012, hitting just .235 with a .287 OBP and 16 homers, but the Royals are confident he can bounce back. We're not so sure. Dec 12 - 7:21 PM
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Francouer is a good candidate for a bounce back year. It is his contract year and most people improve significantly during a contract year. Frenchy is only 28 years old. There is no reason he can't be an average or better RF. Congratulations on making crap up!!!!
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:52 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
CooterBailey wrote:
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--- WheelingEagle wrote:
Royals general manager Dayton Moore said that Jeff Francoeur is slated to be the team's starting right fielder again in 2013.
They don't have many good options after trading Wil Myers to the Rays. Francoeur was a surprisingly good fantasy producer in 2011 when he batted .285 while notching a 20/20 campaign. He fell off the cliff in 2012, hitting just .235 with a .287 OBP and 16 homers, but the Royals are confident he can bounce back. We're not so sure. Dec 12 - 7:21 PM
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Francouer is a good candidate for a bounce back year. It is his contract year and most people improve significantly during a contract year. Frenchy is only 28 years old. There is no reason he can't be an average or better RF. No. |
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:57 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
CooterBailey wrote:
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--- WheelingEagle wrote:
Royals general manager Dayton Moore said that Jeff Francoeur is slated to be the team's starting right fielder again in 2013.
They don't have many good options after trading Wil Myers to the Rays. Francoeur was a surprisingly good fantasy producer in 2011 when he batted .285 while notching a 20/20 campaign. He fell off the cliff in 2012, hitting just .235 with a .287 OBP and 16 homers, but the Royals are confident he can bounce back. We're not so sure. Dec 12 - 7:21 PM
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Francouer is a good candidate for a bounce back year. It is his contract year and most people improve significantly during a contract year. Frenchy is only 28 years old. There is no reason he can't be an average or better RF. I think offensively we will see an improvement from Frenchy because his BABIP was low last year. But, defensively I don't think his range improves unless he was hurt last year and never mentioned it. I'm hoping that he at least improves and gets into positive WAR territory.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:18 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
ouweatherman wrote:
CooterBailey wrote:
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--- WheelingEagle wrote:
Royals general manager Dayton Moore said that Jeff Francoeur is slated to be the team's starting right fielder again in 2013.
They don't have many good options after trading Wil Myers to the Rays. Francoeur was a surprisingly good fantasy producer in 2011 when he batted .285 while notching a 20/20 campaign. He fell off the cliff in 2012, hitting just .235 with a .287 OBP and 16 homers, but the Royals are confident he can bounce back. We're not so sure. Dec 12 - 7:21 PM
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Francouer is a good candidate for a bounce back year. It is his contract year and most people improve significantly during a contract year. Frenchy is only 28 years old. There is no reason he can't be an average or better RF. I think offensively we will see an improvement from Frenchy because his BABIP was low last year. But, defensively I don't think his range improves unless he was hurt last year and never mentioned it. I'm hoping that he at least improves and gets into positive WAR territory. His BABIP was low because he didn't hit the ball hard. Sometimes, a low BABIP doesn't mean you're unlucky, just bad. His LD% was over 21, which would make you think he was unlucky, but take a look at the groundball percentage and then factor in the fact that he played most of the season with a piano actually glued to his back and you can see why the BABIP was low. Slow guys who don't hit the ball hard have a low BABIP.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:43 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
JockItch34 wrote:
His BABIP was low because he didn't hit the ball hard. Sometimes, a low BABIP doesn't mean you're unlucky, just bad. His LD% was over 21, which would make you think he was unlucky, but take a look at the groundball percentage and then factor in the fact that he played most of the season with a piano actually glued to his back and you can see why the BABIP was low. Slow guys who don't hit the ball hard have a low BABIP. The bolded is true, but it's hard to make a stats-based argument that Frenchy wasn't at least a little unlucky last year. His LD% was the highest of his career, and the FB% was the lowest of his career (by a lot), which should result in a higher BABIP, even with a GB% of 45. Instead, it was .272, lower than his career average by almost 30 points. His infield hit % did take a huge drop from 7.1 in 2011 to 1 in 2012, which goes back to the point of his concrete boots he wore to the diamond every day. EDIT: I should point out, however, that while I'm expecting a slightly better season from Frenchy (tough to do worse), I still think he's going to be a terrible baseball player. I just think he'll be slightly less terrible than he was in 2012.
Last edited 12/13/2012 9:45 AM by RockChalkOmaHawk
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:44 AM
RE: Jeff Francoeur in right field
I've resigned myself to the fact that we're going to have to watch Frenchy continue to play like Jose Guillen for another season. The thing that truly and utterly terrifies me is that Francoeur will indeed have a "bounceback" year where he puts up a line similar to his career averages - something like .265/.310/.425 where he hits 20 HR, throws out a few runners on the bases, and slaps a lot of butts. Which of course will lead Dayton to believe that Jeff is back so he signs Francoeur for 3 more years. I honestly have nightmares about this exact scenario.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:33 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
RockChalkOmaHawk wrote:
JockItch34 wrote:
His BABIP was low because he didn't hit the ball hard. Sometimes, a low BABIP doesn't mean you're unlucky, just bad. His LD% was over 21, which would make you think he was unlucky, but take a look at the groundball percentage and then factor in the fact that he played most of the season with a piano actually glued to his back and you can see why the BABIP was low. Slow guys who don't hit the ball hard have a low BABIP. The bolded is true, but it's hard to make a stats-based argument that Frenchy wasn't at least a little unlucky last year. His LD% was the highest of his career, and the FB% was the lowest of his career (by a lot), which should result in a higher BABIP, even with a GB% of 45. Instead, it was .272, lower than his career average by almost 30 points. His infield hit % did take a huge drop from 7.1 in 2011 to 1 in 2012, which goes back to the point of his concrete boots he wore to the diamond every day.
EDIT: I should point out, however, that while I'm expecting a slightly better season from Frenchy (tough to do worse), I still think he's going to be a terrible baseball player. I just think he'll be slightly less terrible than he was in 2012. LD% is a great tool, but when a player hits a little humpback liner to the second baseman, that's classified as a line drive, too, so you have to take the numbers with at least a little grain of salt. Having watched nearly every game last season, I can say with great certainty that his percentage is greatly inflated.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:35 AM
RE: Jeff Francoeur in right field
Francouer posted a 2.7 WAR in 2011.....was anyone UNHAPPY with THAT result?
IF he had produced that same WAR level in 2012, he would have ranked sixth on the team, behind:
Gordon = 6.2
Escobar = 3.2
Butler = 2.9
Moose = 2.9
Perez = 2.8
Could we all live with that level of production again in 2013?
Last season was BY FAR his worst season from the WAR standpoint. I don't understand why it's so inconceivable to think that he could get back to AT LEAST, a league average player next season at age 29....
Supposedly he played with some sort of foot injury through much of last season. Whether that's accurate or not I don't know. I also don't know how much this injury affected his range
I know his salary is an albatross and I know every time we're going to look in RF next season and see him there, it's going to be a reminder of "what if" with Myers, but, it's not out of the question to see him rebound to his 2011 production level IMO.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:35 AM
RE: Jeff Francoeur in right field
Watching Francouer in 2011 and then 2012 leads me to believe he had a groin, foot, or leg problem of some sort. He never had excellent range, but it was way, way better in 2011. Now, that being said, there was no excuse for his slow bat speed and horrible plate approach last year. At least his arm is still intact.
- the DUKE |
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:39 AM
RE: Jeff Francoeur in right field
Royals1969 wrote: Francouer posted a 2.7 WAR in 2011.....was anyone UNHAPPY with THAT result?
IF he had produced that same WAR level in 2012, he would have ranked sixth on the team, behind:
Gordon = 6.2
Escobar = 3.2
Butler = 2.9
Moose = 2.9
Perez = 2.8
Could we all live with that level of production again in 2013?
Last season was BY FAR his worst season from the WAR standpoint. I don't understand why it's so inconceivable to think that he could get back to AT LEAST, a league average player next season at age 29....
Supposedly he played with some sort of foot injury through much of last season. Whether that's accurate or not I don't know. I also don't know how much this injury affected his range
I know his salary is an albatross and I know every time we're going to look in RF next season and see him there, it's going to be a reminder of "what if" with Myers, but, it's not out of the question to see him rebound to his 2011 production level IMO. You continue to hope that he'll regain the magic from his best season since 2007 and I'll look at things logically rather than as a blind optimist. I hate to spoil the ending, but I'll be right.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:41 AM
RE: Jeff Francoeur in right field
For what it's worth, John Perrotto from BP had this to say on the matter in his article about the Shields trade: "Some would disagree with the assessment that the Royals did not damage their hitting attack by trading Myers and opting to play Jeff Francoeur again in right field in 2013. However, the Royals are looking for an upgrade in right field, and they did not regard Myers as highly internally as many teams outside the organization." http://www.baseballprospectus....articleid=19158Wonder how true this really is...
Last edited 12/13/2012 10:42 AM by soloscottrey
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:43 AM
RE: Jeff Francoeur in right field
soloscottrey wrote: For what it's worth, John Perrotto from BP had this to say on the matter in his article about the Shields trade:
"Some would disagree with the assessment that the Royals did not damage their hitting attack by trading Myers and opting to play Jeff Francoeur again in right field in 2013. However, the Royals are looking for an upgrade in right field, and they did not regard Myers as highly internally as many teams outside the organization."
http://www.baseballprospectus....articleid=19158
Wonder how true this really is... You can believe me or not when I say I heard this very conversation many times, but I did. The Royals legitimately think Wil Myers is a .290/.370/.480 type player.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:46 AM
RE: Jeff Francoeur in right field
I'd just like to argue semantics here...
0 WAR is not league average, that is replacement level. For an everyday player 2 WAR is what is considered "average." In Frenchy's "superawesome bounceback funtime season" (TM) of 2011 his WAR was 2.9. In the season we are all crossing our fingers to hope he gets back to, he was just barely an above average player.
I think he improves on last year, and probably is a .5- 1.0 WAR player...wich makes him below average.
If you look at his last 5 seasons, he has been "average" or above once (2011), and been .6 WAR or below in the other 4, with 2 of those seasons (08, 12) being below replacement level.
The thought of Frenchy being "average" is almost laughable. We need to hope he is above replacement level.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:51 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
JockItch34 wrote:
LD% is a great tool, but when a player hits a little humpback liner to the second baseman, that's classified as a line drive, too, so you have to take the numbers with at least a little grain of salt. Having watched nearly every game last season, I can say with great certainty that his percentage is greatly inflated. I get that to some extent, but when his LD% is higher than any other season in his career, and yet his BABIP is that far below his career average, I just don't see how you can say he wasn't at least a little bit unlucky. Him being terribly slow didn't help at all, but there was certainly an element of bad luck involved. |
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:53 AM
RE: Jeff Francoeur in right field
that is not what 69 said at all. how do you quote someone and make stuff up. all 69 is saying is frenchy could be as good as he was in 2011 and not as bad as 2012. that an injury could have been to blame for his poor year and that it is possible that he becomes a league average player in 2013. no mention of 2007. iwould add that this being a contract year bodes well for the royals as well. JockItch34 wrote:
Royals1969 wrote: Francouer posted a 2.7 WAR in 2011.....was anyone UNHAPPY with THAT result?
IF he had produced that same WAR level in 2012, he would have ranked sixth on the team, behind:
Gordon = 6.2
Escobar = 3.2
Butler = 2.9
Moose = 2.9
Perez = 2.8
Could we all live with that level of production again in 2013?
Last season was BY FAR his worst season from the WAR standpoint. I don't understand why it's so inconceivable to think that he could get back to AT LEAST, a league average player next season at age 29....
Supposedly he played with some sort of foot injury through much of last season. Whether that's accurate or not I don't know. I also don't know how much this injury affected his range
I know his salary is an albatross and I know every time we're going to look in RF next season and see him there, it's going to be a reminder of "what if" with Myers, but, it's not out of the question to see him rebound to his 2011 production level IMO.
You continue to hope that he'll regain the magic from his best season since 2007 and I'll look at things logically rather than as a blind optimist.
I hate to spoil the ending, but I'll be right.
Last edited 12/13/2012 10:54 AM by jerdrew22
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:57 AM
Re: Jeff Francoeur in right field
This should be of absolutely no surprise to anyone, even before the trade. Frenchy is going to get the opportunity to play everyday. I hope he does well, but not well enough that DM signs him to an extension.
I am also hoping that they claim Van Slyke off waivers. Guy mashes AAA and has not had a lot of opportunity at the ML level. Those are the kind of lottery tickets KC needs to be buying.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:58 AM
RE: Jeff Francoeur in right field
The nugget about RA Dickey was interesting...I can't wait to see what the Mets eventually trade him for, and how that would compare to what KC could offer. What would you give for 1yr of Dickey? soloscottrey wrote: For what it's worth, John Perrotto from BP had this to say on the matter in his article about the Shields trade:
"Some would disagree with the assessment that the Royals did not damage their hitting attack by trading Myers and opting to play Jeff Francoeur again in right field in 2013. However, the Royals are looking for an upgrade in right field, and they did not regard Myers as highly internally as many teams outside the organization."
http://www.baseballprospectus....articleid=19158
Wonder how true this really is...
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