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Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week?

Posted: 12/5/2012 12:35 PM

Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


I own a business and work 60-80 hours per week to run it. I am sure others on here do the same. Been doing this for over 30 years. 
1) Just got notice my employee health insurance plan is going up another 25%. I pay premiums for employees. Good plan about $ 350.00 per person. 87.50 increase per month per employee
2) Fuel prices have doubled in 4 years. I did not increase my customer rate but 17% over this time.
3) Parts have gone up double also in many categories. Most parts are plastic and require petroleum.
4) Liability insurance increase  13%
5) Accountant says get ready for at minimum 10-15% tax increase.
6) Cannot raise customer rate for many reasons

So I can either continue to work the hours or shut down and liquidate? 21 people lose job, healthcare etc. which I anguish over. But if I continue as is, I risk losing it all ( Because I will have to use my personal funds to subsidize business) My banker told me point blank they are not going to take the risk if I cannot raise rates to bring profit margins in line. So if you were 63 years old what would you do?



 "Evil doesnt create. it corrupts and destroys."
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Posted: 12/5/2012 12:53 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


Excellent real life example of the problem. Of course you're a "wealthy" one percenter and you should have a more "neighborly" attitude and be willing to "do a little more".

And of course trickle down economics has no basis in fact to the 21 employees who would lose their job. Many of whom probably voted for Obama.
----------------------""Life is what happens when you're busy planning your next post on DB.com""
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Posted: 12/5/2012 12:55 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


go on social security
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:00 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



vg2011 wrote: Excellent real life example of the problem. Of course you're a "wealthy" one percenter and you should have a more "neighborly" attitude and be willing to "do a little more".

And of course trickle down economics has no basis in fact to the 21 employees who would lose their job. Many of whom probably voted for Obama.
What does Obama have to do with any of the problems he noted. 

Please be specific,  Outside of patently subsidizing his business to the point of NO RISK, there is nothing the Government can or should do to help him. 

@businessguy

You should run your business better and make more money. Stop blaming Obama or the Government for the fact that your business is about to go under. Blame your competitors and the market for kicking your ass. I think the term is "self responsibility".
6t1qfo_medium
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:02 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


obama doubled the gas prices! they really believe this, lol.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:03 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


I am not a one percenter.( I know your comment is tongue- in -cheek) I have always paid my employees well and given good benefits. We live very modestly. Thanks for thinking about this issue.



 "Evil doesnt create. it corrupts and destroys."
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:03 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



robillionaire wrote: obama doubled the gas prices! they really believe this, lol.
Its kinda ironic that the very 'free' market they know and love decides things should be more expensive and then they blame Obama.
6t1qfo_medium
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:10 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


If it were me and I was 63 I would sell the business and retire, but it sounds like your business may be doing so poorly that it would not be attractive to anyone else to try and take over. If you need the cash from the companies assets then shut it down, you shouldn't have to work until you are dead to take care of non-relative employees. You've been paying them at a fair rate for their time I assume, so you owe them nothing else.

Another option would be to restructure the company so that it is owned and operated by the employees and leave yourself as a preferential creditor, so if the employees fail to turn things around you will be first in line for any assets left over when things go belly up.

If you've done your best and reinvested profits in the company over the years you have nothing to anguish over. The world changes and no one should have the expectation that their job is going to last forever.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:18 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


A guy starts a post seeking advice about a serious problem in his life, the first response is someone politicizing it. Hurray for America.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:19 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



seanfish wrote: A guy starts a post seeking advice about a serious problem in his life, the first response is someone politicizing it. Hurray for America.
Well, this is the politics forum...
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:19 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


obama doubled the gas prices! they really believe this, lol.

You mean like he saved the country from a depression?
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:20 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



robillionaire wrote:
seanfish wrote: A guy starts a post seeking advice about a serious problem in his life, the first response is someone politicizing it. Hurray for America.
Well, this is the politics forum...
There is room for non-political talk in the Rest Of The World forum I think. noidea
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:20 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



rayfa wrote: obama doubled the gas prices! they really believe this, lol.

You mean like he saved the country from a depression?
Well, we'll never know that for a fact, obviously. But apparently the majority of Americans think he did.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:21 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



seanfish wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
seanfish wrote: A guy starts a post seeking advice about a serious problem in his life, the first response is someone politicizing it. Hurray for America.
Well, this is the politics forum...
There is room for non-political talk in the Rest Of The World forum I think. noidea
Show me where. Sounchaser's bigfoot and reptilian nonsense aside.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:24 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



robillionaire wrote:
seanfish wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
seanfish wrote: A guy starts a post seeking advice about a serious problem in his life, the first response is someone politicizing it. Hurray for America.
Well, this is the politics forum...
There is room for non-political talk in the Rest Of The World forum I think. noidea
Show me where. Sounchaser's bigfoot and reptilian nonsense aside.
There's a few just on the first page.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:27 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


All I can say is that if I had a serious problem in my life, and my first instinct was to ask people on a basketball message board for financial advice, I'm going to consider myself screwed

Pretty sure the whole point of his post was to start a political debate on the points he brought up. At least I hope it was. I seriously hope he's not counting on us to rescue his business, haha.

Last edited 12/5/2012 1:28 PM by robillionaire

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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:31 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



HeNeverLies4 wrote:
vg2011 wrote: Excellent real life example of the problem. Of course you're a "wealthy" one percenter and you should have a more "neighborly" attitude and be willing to "do a little more".

And of course trickle down economics has no basis in fact to the 21 employees who would lose their job. Many of whom probably voted for Obama.
What does Obama have to do with any of the problems he noted. 

Please be specific,  Outside of patently subsidizing his business to the point of NO RISK, there is nothing the Government can or should do to help him. 

@businessguy

You should run your business better and make more money. Stop blaming Obama or the Government for the fact that your business is about to go under. Blame your competitors and the market for kicking your ass. I think the term is "self responsibility".
I did not say I am going under. I have only had two years out of thirty showing no profit. My competitors would tell you" Don't even try to kick his ass, cause he will make you like it while he stomps yours"  My competitors are in the same arena I am in. We can no longer pass these costs on to the consumer in percentages these large. You talk about "self-responsibility" I have never looked to any government entity to bail me out!! If your are talking about low tax rates doing the bailing out etc. that is exactly my point. Government policies that enter the private arena in energy, taxes, healthcare, regulations. EPA, welfare, immigration just to name a few are far overriding the tax issues. When this causes our profits to be diverted to government programs instead of re-investing them in our businesses, damn right I blame politicians. Because it directly affects my employees and myself. When these government programs give this revenue to their pet companies, and people that are not going to work ( Republican and Democrats alike) I question if I want to work the hours I work and risk my personal savings to subsidize them!!



 "Evil doesnt create. it corrupts and destroys."
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:37 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



btxred wrote:
HeNeverLies4 wrote:
vg2011 wrote: Excellent real life example of the problem. Of course you're a "wealthy" one percenter and you should have a more "neighborly" attitude and be willing to "do a little more".

And of course trickle down economics has no basis in fact to the 21 employees who would lose their job. Many of whom probably voted for Obama.
What does Obama have to do with any of the problems he noted. 

Please be specific,  Outside of patently subsidizing his business to the point of NO RISK, there is nothing the Government can or should do to help him. 

@businessguy

You should run your business better and make more money. Stop blaming Obama or the Government for the fact that your business is about to go under. Blame your competitors and the market for kicking your ass. I think the term is "self responsibility".
I did not say I am going under. I have only had two years out of thirty showing no profit. My competitors would tell you" Don't even try to kick his ass, cause he will make you like it while he stomps yours"  My competitors are in the same arena I am in. We can no longer pass these costs on to the consumer in percentages these large. You talk about "self-responsibility" I have never looked to any government entity to bail me out!! If your are talking about low tax rates doing the bailing out etc. that is exactly my point. Government policies that enter the private arena in energy, taxes, healthcare, regulations. EPA, welfare, immigration just to name a few are far overriding the tax issues. When this causes our profits to be diverted to government programs instead of re-investing them in our businesses, damn right I blame politicians. Because it directly affects my employees and myself. When these government programs give this revenue to their pet companies, and people that are not going to work ( Republican and Democrats alike) I question if I want to work the hours I work and risk my personal savings to subsidize them!!

Care to talk about your industry?


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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:44 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


So if I understand O didn't have a role in the price of gas going up since he took offfice but he saved the economy? Sounds like nonpartisan logic.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:46 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



BobMajerle wrote:
btxred wrote:
HeNeverLies4 wrote:
vg2011 wrote: Excellent real life example of the problem. Of course you're a "wealthy" one percenter and you should have a more "neighborly" attitude and be willing to "do a little more".

And of course trickle down economics has no basis in fact to the 21 employees who would lose their job. Many of whom probably voted for Obama.
What does Obama have to do with any of the problems he noted. 

Please be specific,  Outside of patently subsidizing his business to the point of NO RISK, there is nothing the Government can or should do to help him. 

@businessguy

You should run your business better and make more money. Stop blaming Obama or the Government for the fact that your business is about to go under. Blame your competitors and the market for kicking your ass. I think the term is "self responsibility".
I did not say I am going under. I have only had two years out of thirty showing no profit. My competitors would tell you" Don't even try to kick his ass, cause he will make you like it while he stomps yours"  My competitors are in the same arena I am in. We can no longer pass these costs on to the consumer in percentages these large. You talk about "self-responsibility" I have never looked to any government entity to bail me out!! If your are talking about low tax rates doing the bailing out etc. that is exactly my point. Government policies that enter the private arena in energy, taxes, healthcare, regulations. EPA, welfare, immigration just to name a few are far overriding the tax issues. When this causes our profits to be diverted to government programs instead of re-investing them in our businesses, damn right I blame politicians. Because it directly affects my employees and myself. When these government programs give this revenue to their pet companies, and people that are not going to work ( Republican and Democrats alike) I question if I want to work the hours I work and risk my personal savings to subsidize them!!

Care to talk about your industry?
I am in the home services industry. And i am not broke. I am basically asking would you risk all that you own to work extreme hours to basically break-even, and No I do not pay myself but 60,000 per year.



 "Evil doesnt create. it corrupts and destroys."
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:57 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



robillionaire wrote: All I can say is that if I had a serious problem in my life, and my first instinct was to ask people on a basketball message board for financial advice, I'm going to consider myself screwed

Pretty sure the whole point of his post was to start a political debate on the points he brought up. At least I hope it was. I seriously hope he's not counting on us to rescue his business, haha.
+1
----------------------""Life is what happens when you're busy planning your next post on DB.com""
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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:59 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



btxred wrote:
BobMajerle wrote:
btxred wrote:
HeNeverLies4 wrote:
vg2011 wrote: Excellent real life example of the problem. Of course you're a "wealthy" one percenter and you should have a more "neighborly" attitude and be willing to "do a little more".

And of course trickle down economics has no basis in fact to the 21 employees who would lose their job. Many of whom probably voted for Obama.
What does Obama have to do with any of the problems he noted. 

Please be specific,  Outside of patently subsidizing his business to the point of NO RISK, there is nothing the Government can or should do to help him. 

@businessguy

You should run your business better and make more money. Stop blaming Obama or the Government for the fact that your business is about to go under. Blame your competitors and the market for kicking your ass. I think the term is "self responsibility".
I did not say I am going under. I have only had two years out of thirty showing no profit. My competitors would tell you" Don't even try to kick his ass, cause he will make you like it while he stomps yours"  My competitors are in the same arena I am in. We can no longer pass these costs on to the consumer in percentages these large. You talk about "self-responsibility" I have never looked to any government entity to bail me out!! If your are talking about low tax rates doing the bailing out etc. that is exactly my point. Government policies that enter the private arena in energy, taxes, healthcare, regulations. EPA, welfare, immigration just to name a few are far overriding the tax issues. When this causes our profits to be diverted to government programs instead of re-investing them in our businesses, damn right I blame politicians. Because it directly affects my employees and myself. When these government programs give this revenue to their pet companies, and people that are not going to work ( Republican and Democrats alike) I question if I want to work the hours I work and risk my personal savings to subsidize them!!

Care to talk about your industry?
I am in the home services industry. And i am not broke. I am basically asking would you risk all that you own to work extreme hours to basically break-even, and No I do not pay myself but 60,000 per year.
I don't follow you exactly. Are we talking about contracting home improvement services? Or are you a window washer?


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Posted: 12/5/2012 1:59 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



btxred wrote: I own a business and work 60-80 hours per week to run it. I am sure others on here do the same. Been doing this for over 30 years. 
1) Just got notice my employee health insurance plan is going up another 25%. I pay premiums for employees. Good plan about $ 350.00 per person. 87.50 increase per month per employee
2) Fuel prices have doubled in 4 years. I did not increase my customer rate but 17% over this time.
3) Parts have gone up double also in many categories. Most parts are plastic and require petroleum.
4) Liability insurance increase  13%
5) Accountant says get ready for at minimum 10-15% tax increase.
6) Cannot raise customer rate for many reasons

So I can either continue to work the hours or shut down and liquidate? 21 people lose job, healthcare etc. which I anguish over. But if I continue as is, I risk losing it all ( Because I will have to use my personal funds to subsidize business) My banker told me point blank they are not going to take the risk if I cannot raise rates to bring profit margins in line. So if you were 63 years old what would you do?
Point by point, how many of the things you listed were adversely effected by government regulation, laws and policies? And specifically what laws or regulations and how?
----------------------""Life is what happens when you're busy planning your next post on DB.com""

Last edited 12/5/2012 2:00 PM by vg2011

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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:04 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



rayfa wrote: So if I understand O didn't have a role in the price of gas going up since he took offfice but he saved the economy? Sounds like nonpartisan logic.
It's just the logic of someone who understands how gas prices are set vs someone who doesn't
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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:07 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


I'd do what ever was best for me and my family. Working oneself to death doesn't appeal to me, but is a decision only you can make. Those that work for you should not be a part of the decision in my view. Is totally what is best for you and yours. If you decide to cut loose I'd look for a buyer, maybe one of your employees if they are so inclined.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:17 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



robillionaire wrote: All I can say is that if I had a serious problem in my life, and my first instinct was to ask people on a basketball message board for financial advice, I'm going to consider myself screwed

Pretty sure the whole point of his post was to start a political debate on the points he brought up. At least I hope it was. I seriously hope he's not counting on us to rescue his business, haha.
Well, my bad, I did not think of how it may look on a sports forum to discuss business. But, I have found in life, sports people are good conversationalists and definitely know what a win is! Yeah, it is political as most things are.



 "Evil doesnt create. it corrupts and destroys."
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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:20 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



BobMajerle wrote:
btxred wrote:
BobMajerle wrote:
btxred wrote:
HeNeverLies4 wrote:
vg2011 wrote: Excellent real life example of the problem. Of course you're a "wealthy" one percenter and you should have a more "neighborly" attitude and be willing to "do a little more".

And of course trickle down economics has no basis in fact to the 21 employees who would lose their job. Many of whom probably voted for Obama.
What does Obama have to do with any of the problems he noted. 

Please be specific,  Outside of patently subsidizing his business to the point of NO RISK, there is nothing the Government can or should do to help him. 

@businessguy

You should run your business better and make more money. Stop blaming Obama or the Government for the fact that your business is about to go under. Blame your competitors and the market for kicking your ass. I think the term is "self responsibility".
I did not say I am going under. I have only had two years out of thirty showing no profit. My competitors would tell you" Don't even try to kick his ass, cause he will make you like it while he stomps yours"  My competitors are in the same arena I am in. We can no longer pass these costs on to the consumer in percentages these large. You talk about "self-responsibility" I have never looked to any government entity to bail me out!! If your are talking about low tax rates doing the bailing out etc. that is exactly my point. Government policies that enter the private arena in energy, taxes, healthcare, regulations. EPA, welfare, immigration just to name a few are far overriding the tax issues. When this causes our profits to be diverted to government programs instead of re-investing them in our businesses, damn right I blame politicians. Because it directly affects my employees and myself. When these government programs give this revenue to their pet companies, and people that are not going to work ( Republican and Democrats alike) I question if I want to work the hours I work and risk my personal savings to subsidize them!!

Care to talk about your industry?
I am in the home services industry. And i am not broke. I am basically asking would you risk all that you own to work extreme hours to basically break-even, and No I do not pay myself but 60,000 per year.
I don't follow you exactly. Are we talking about contracting home improvement services? Or are you a window washer?
I sell, service, and repair major appliances. Mainly service and repair now.



 "Evil doesnt create. it corrupts and destroys."
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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:24 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 



btxred wrote:
BobMajerle wrote:
btxred wrote:
BobMajerle wrote:
btxred wrote:
HeNeverLies4 wrote:
vg2011 wrote: Excellent real life example of the problem. Of course you're a "wealthy" one percenter and you should have a more "neighborly" attitude and be willing to "do a little more".

And of course trickle down economics has no basis in fact to the 21 employees who would lose their job. Many of whom probably voted for Obama.
What does Obama have to do with any of the problems he noted. 

Please be specific,  Outside of patently subsidizing his business to the point of NO RISK, there is nothing the Government can or should do to help him. 

@businessguy

You should run your business better and make more money. Stop blaming Obama or the Government for the fact that your business is about to go under. Blame your competitors and the market for kicking your ass. I think the term is "self responsibility".
I did not say I am going under. I have only had two years out of thirty showing no profit. My competitors would tell you" Don't even try to kick his ass, cause he will make you like it while he stomps yours"  My competitors are in the same arena I am in. We can no longer pass these costs on to the consumer in percentages these large. You talk about "self-responsibility" I have never looked to any government entity to bail me out!! If your are talking about low tax rates doing the bailing out etc. that is exactly my point. Government policies that enter the private arena in energy, taxes, healthcare, regulations. EPA, welfare, immigration just to name a few are far overriding the tax issues. When this causes our profits to be diverted to government programs instead of re-investing them in our businesses, damn right I blame politicians. Because it directly affects my employees and myself. When these government programs give this revenue to their pet companies, and people that are not going to work ( Republican and Democrats alike) I question if I want to work the hours I work and risk my personal savings to subsidize them!!

Care to talk about your industry?
I am in the home services industry. And i am not broke. I am basically asking would you risk all that you own to work extreme hours to basically break-even, and No I do not pay myself but 60,000 per year.
I don't follow you exactly. Are we talking about contracting home improvement services? Or are you a window washer?
I sell, service, and repair major appliances. Mainly service and repair now.
And so your competitors like Best Buy and Walmart have said "Don't even try to kick his ass, cause he will make you like it while he stomps yours"?


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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:33 PM

RE: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


The answer is: you choose between
(a) pass costs along to customers
(b) pass costs along to employees (or reduce employee pay)
(c) cut costs
(d) make less money and/or change how many hours you work to suit your situation
(e) some combination of the above
(f) quit the business

There's no "one size fits all" answer because which of those options make sense, and to what degree, will be unique to every industry and probably to every company within as well.

But it's not a morality play. Do it and be glad for what you have, or don't do it and go on with your life. And best wishes for whatever you decide.
DL
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Posted: 12/5/2012 2:51 PM

Re: Tell me why I should continue working 60-70 hours a week? 


solve the problems you can. then innovate new ways to do business in a less costly manner.

taxes - get a better advisor one who can teach you how to eliminate a lot of your taxes by investing in diversification, various property enhancements tax credits etc. If you hire the disadvantaged there are tax credits for that and other things I can turn you onto if your business qualifies.

Make some employees 1099 contractors and then pay them more so they can buy less costly individual health insurance. employee leasing is also an option.

innovate in the area of marketing. As someone who owns marketing technology development firms I can supply technologies to enhance your marketing and taylor strategies to enhance your particular outreach effort to those in your market.

outsource in areas you can afford to do so those people you use at another company to do the work you outsource will get health care through another company not yours.


Lots of ideas and this is just off the top of my head if I knew more about your business I could give specialized advice.
"I was wrong. I am a conspiracy nut and even though I will come up with a bunch of excuses for why this didn't happen the way I said it would, please ignore these excuses because until I seek help, I will continue spewing unsubstantiated conspiracy garbage"

Last edited 12/5/2012 2:52 PM by guitargodofshred

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