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So what moves would you make?

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Posted: 10/8/2012 10:10 AM

So what moves would you make? 


I'll post my thoughts later, but wanted to get this out there:

What moves would you make this offseason? The assumption would be shapiro and antonetti are going nowhere, so let's stick to players. and be realistic. no one's going to give us mccutcheon for jimenez.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 12:48 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 



buddy34 wrote: I'll post my thoughts later, but wanted to get this out there:

What moves would you make this offseason? The assumption would be shapiro and antonetti are going nowhere, so let's stick to players. and be realistic. no one's going to give us mccutcheon for jimenez.

I rarely if ever propose specific trades because I simply can't guage the value of our players to other teams nor am I all that savvy on other teams GMs.

So I won't propose who specifically we go after, but I am in favor of trading Choo, Perez, possibly other relievers (none by the name of Pestano) for young players - either already major leaguers or on the brink.

I would definitely pick up Ubaldo's options but I would make it know to any team that has any interest in him or Masterson that they're available for the right price. For that matter, I would make just about any player or prospect available for the right price.

Hafner Hannahan, Rottino, Kotchman, LaPorta, Neal & Lillibridge would not be back.

It's simply time to go young. Francona has a 4-year deal. I think the intention is to build this team up with him in charge. I really hope Terry hire's a coaching staff who can work with young players and are teachers and motivators.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 1:04 PM

RE: So what moves would you make? 


I wouldn't mind Lillibridge as a NRI. I'm a sucker for a 25th man who can play everywhere on the field, and while Lillibridge may not be the best the Indians can do for that, they can't reasonably do much better for a backup.

I think the best thing they can do is make clear decisions. Are they going to give Jason Donald 300 ABs or no? Are they going to trade Choo? Perez?

That doesn't mean they need to tell us, obviously. But clear plans go a long way.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 1:06 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 



buddy34 wrote: I'll post my thoughts later, but wanted to get this out there:

What moves would you make this offseason? The assumption would be shapiro and antonetti are going nowhere, so let's stick to players. and be realistic. no one's going to give us mccutcheon for jimenez.
Depends on budget. Let's say Buddy Dolan gets to set the 2013 budget. How much? 55M? 65M? 75M? 85M?
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Posted: 10/8/2012 1:28 PM

RE: So what moves would you make? 




---------------------------------------------
--- GopherIndianHybrid wrote:

I wouldn't mind Lillibridge as a NRI. I'm a sucker for a 25th man who can play everywhere on the field, and while Lillibridge may not be the best the Indians can do for that, they can't reasonably do much better for a backup.

I think the best thing they can do is make clear decisions. Are they going to give Jason Donald 300 ABs or no? Are they going to trade Choo? Perez?

That doesn't mean they need to tell us, obviously. But clear plans go a long way.

---------------------------------------------

I'd be fine with giving Lillibridge the 25th spot if his fielding with the Indians was an aberration. He looked horrible at all the infield positions. I don't really care if he can hit, but he needs to be much better in the field than what he showed.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 2:14 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 


Trade Perez - don't need 'elite' closer on rebuilding team
         Choo - ain't going to sign with us
         Smith - sell high and we have plenty of decent relievers coming

Would love to trade Ubaldo and Carmona but value is most likely incredibly low right now

Dump Rottino, Lillibridge, Hannahan and Kotchman

Sign McCarthy and Liriano
Sign Quentin or B J Updton
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Posted: 10/8/2012 2:28 PM

RE: So what moves would you make? 


i would also assume no significant change to the budget.

my thoughts:

* my first priority would be to improve the starting pitching staff through trades. i'm looking for at least 2 good starters, so everyone else moves down in the rotation. masterson dropped to 3, mcallister to 4, and jimenez fights it out with kluber and everyone else for the #5 slot. if ubaldo loses, put him in the pen and see if you can make him earn his money saving games for an inning.
* the indians gave up 845 runs this year. you've got to cut that by 200 to be competitive in 2013. you've got to do that with starting pitching and defense. 
* no way i pick up fausto's option.
* i'd look for a starting pitcher in trading choo. as with nearly all proposed trades, i'd be looking for MLB-ready talent that is team-controlled for at least 4 years, preferably more.
* i'd trade chris perez and look for either an OF or a SS in return.
* i'd consider trading carlos santana for starting pitching in the right deal. if, for instance, you could get james shields for santana, i'd do it even though shields is under team control for just 2 more years (for a total of 21 mill). that would give the indians a legitimate and dependable #1. i'd prefer to deal santana for a couple of young starters, say archer and cobb of the rays, but can't see the rays doing that. i could see them making a shields for santana swap, given their abundance of MLB starters and lack of hitting and a catcher.
* heck, maybe the rays would be open to bunching a couple of swaps - choo and santana for shields, archer and cobb.
* i'd look to trade asdrubal cabrera for a young, preferably righthanded power-hitting OF and put a defensively minded SS in the everyday lineup.
* i'd scour the minor league rosters for blocked AAA first basemen with pop and an ability to play the position. If we get nowhere, I'd give lars anderson first crack.
* i'd look at the 4th or 5th best free agent CF to see if there's a bargain to be had because of the glut. if we get lucky, brantley slides back to LF. if cabrera brings in a power-hitting LF, scrap this idea and stick with brantley in CF.
* indians will need a lefty-hitting catcher to split time with marson. maybe luke carlin is that guy.
* even with perez gone, i'd keep pestano in his current role, and look to rogers or smith or cody allen to close.
* the bullpen would be filled with internal options only. we have no shortage of candidates.
* chisenhall is your 3B, kipnis your 2B. donald should be a UIF.
* i'd rotate the DH among position players - no set role here. if this means not bringing back hafner, so be it.
* the roster should be 2 catchers, 5 OF and 6 IF. that leaves room for a defensive specialist like hannahan and a slugger like canzler or someone.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 3:02 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 


Just going to throw my opinion out there:

Players that should not return: Hafner, Kotchman, Hannahan, Sizemore (unless he accepts a minor league deal with performance incentives, then I'd bring him back), Roberto Hernandez

I buyout Ubaldo's contract, only because he would actually be arbitration eligible in 2013.  In the long run you end up likely paying him less than the 5.75 million he's owed plus the 2014 buyout and maybe Francona finds a way to get a solid year out of Ubaldo in 2013.

I trade Choo this winter.  The Indians likely get more for a full year of him as opposed to a partial year.

I trade Chris Perez this winter only because we have guys who can do his job that will make less money.  The money saved by moving Perez can be used to improve the team in other areas.

Players I'd have interest in for free agency:

Jim Thome to replace Hafner as the DH; he's more reliable and will produce better numbers and will likely only cost 1 or 2 million.

Mark Reynolds or Lance Berkman to replace Kotchman at first base: If the Indians move Perez and Choo and decline the option on Hernandez, that would save them a decent chunk of money.  Reynolds has an option next year for 11 million that Baltimore likely turns down.  Reynolds might be able to be had for around 8 million or so.

BJ Upton or Torii Hunter to play either CF (moving Brantley to LF) or LF:  In the case of Hunter, it would depend on the length of the contract.  If he's willing to sign for 2 years at around 7-8 million per, I'd take a look.  In the case of Upton, I'd be willing to go 3-4 years for up to 10 million per.

As far as rotational help goes again depending on the price, I'd take a look at Scott Baker (9.25 million dollar option for 2013, but will the Twins pick it up?), Jorge De La Rosa (could be a solid buy low candidate and he's left-handed), Gavin Floyd (9.5 million dollar club option for 2013 which depending on what the White Sox do with Peavy's option as well the re-signing Liriano, the White Sox might not pick up this option), Paul Maholm (lefty coming off a solid year), Brandon McCarthy, and Jake Westbrook (mutual option for 2013 and could have some interest in returning if nothing can be worked out with the Cardinals).  If the Indians could somehow land at least one of these guys (De La Rosa and Maholm would be at the top of my list since they are left-handed) which I think is realistic it would greatly improve our rotation.

Obviously some with disagree with what I think should be done; just giving my 2 cents.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 4:27 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 



BrianBell wrote: Just going to throw my opinion out there:

Players that should not return: Hafner, Kotchman, Hannahan, Sizemore (unless he accepts a minor league deal with performance incentives, then I'd bring him back), Roberto Hernandez

I buyout Ubaldo's contract, only because he would actually be arbitration eligible in 2013.  In the long run you end up likely paying him less than the 5.75 million he's owed plus the 2014 buyout and maybe Francona finds a way to get a solid year out of Ubaldo in 2013.

I trade Choo this winter.  The Indians likely get more for a full year of him as opposed to a partial year.

I trade Chris Perez this winter only because we have guys who can do his job that will make less money.  The money saved by moving Perez can be used to improve the team in other areas.

Players I'd have interest in for free agency:

Jim Thome to replace Hafner as the DH; he's more reliable and will produce better numbers and will likely only cost 1 or 2 million.

Mark Reynolds or Lance Berkman to replace Kotchman at first base: If the Indians move Perez and Choo and decline the option on Hernandez, that would save them a decent chunk of money.  Reynolds has an option next year for 11 million that Baltimore likely turns down.  Reynolds might be able to be had for around 8 million or so.

BJ Upton or Torii Hunter to play either CF (moving Brantley to LF) or LF:  In the case of Hunter, it would depend on the length of the contract.  If he's willing to sign for 2 years at around 7-8 million per, I'd take a look.  In the case of Upton, I'd be willing to go 3-4 years for up to 10 million per.

As far as rotational help goes again depending on the price, I'd take a look at Scott Baker (9.25 million dollar option for 2013, but will the Twins pick it up?), Jorge De La Rosa (could be a solid buy low candidate and he's left-handed), Gavin Floyd (9.5 million dollar club option for 2013 which depending on what the White Sox do with Peavy's option as well the re-signing Liriano, the White Sox might not pick up this option), Paul Maholm (lefty coming off a solid year), Brandon McCarthy, and Jake Westbrook (mutual option for 2013 and could have some interest in returning if nothing can be worked out with the Cardinals).  If the Indians could somehow land at least one of these guys (De La Rosa and Maholm would be at the top of my list since they are left-handed) which I think is realistic it would greatly improve our rotation.

Obviously some with disagree with what I think should be done; just giving my 2 cents.

Hw is Thome more reliable than Hafner? He played less than Hafner did last year and his numbers weren't any better. He's 42 years old with back problems.

Come on, we're trying to get young and better here - not revisit the 90s. Thome has no chance of making this team 1 win better. To replace Hafner with Thome doesn't make any sense to me at all. If that's the case, just stay with Pronk.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 6:52 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 



TitoFrancona wrote:
BrianBell wrote: Just going to throw my opinion out there:

Players that should not return: Hafner, Kotchman, Hannahan, Sizemore (unless he accepts a minor league deal with performance incentives, then I'd bring him back), Roberto Hernandez

I buyout Ubaldo's contract, only because he would actually be arbitration eligible in 2013.  In the long run you end up likely paying him less than the 5.75 million he's owed plus the 2014 buyout and maybe Francona finds a way to get a solid year out of Ubaldo in 2013.

I trade Choo this winter.  The Indians likely get more for a full year of him as opposed to a partial year.

I trade Chris Perez this winter only because we have guys who can do his job that will make less money.  The money saved by moving Perez can be used to improve the team in other areas.

Players I'd have interest in for free agency:

Jim Thome to replace Hafner as the DH; he's more reliable and will produce better numbers and will likely only cost 1 or 2 million.

Mark Reynolds or Lance Berkman to replace Kotchman at first base: If the Indians move Perez and Choo and decline the option on Hernandez, that would save them a decent chunk of money.  Reynolds has an option next year for 11 million that Baltimore likely turns down.  Reynolds might be able to be had for around 8 million or so.

BJ Upton or Torii Hunter to play either CF (moving Brantley to LF) or LF:  In the case of Hunter, it would depend on the length of the contract.  If he's willing to sign for 2 years at around 7-8 million per, I'd take a look.  In the case of Upton, I'd be willing to go 3-4 years for up to 10 million per.

As far as rotational help goes again depending on the price, I'd take a look at Scott Baker (9.25 million dollar option for 2013, but will the Twins pick it up?), Jorge De La Rosa (could be a solid buy low candidate and he's left-handed), Gavin Floyd (9.5 million dollar club option for 2013 which depending on what the White Sox do with Peavy's option as well the re-signing Liriano, the White Sox might not pick up this option), Paul Maholm (lefty coming off a solid year), Brandon McCarthy, and Jake Westbrook (mutual option for 2013 and could have some interest in returning if nothing can be worked out with the Cardinals).  If the Indians could somehow land at least one of these guys (De La Rosa and Maholm would be at the top of my list since they are left-handed) which I think is realistic it would greatly improve our rotation.

Obviously some with disagree with what I think should be done; just giving my 2 cents.

Hw is Thome more reliable than Hafner? He played less than Hafner did last year and his numbers weren't any better. He's 42 years old with back problems.

Come on, we're trying to get young and better here - not revisit the 90s. Thome has no chance of making this team 1 win better. To replace Hafner with Thome doesn't make any sense to me at all. If that's the case, just stay with Pronk.
Gosh didn't even realize he only played 28 games for Baltimore after the trade.  Was just looking at his OPS+ which looked pretty decent.  Jonny Gomes could be another DH option to replace Hafner depending on the price.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 7:47 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 


I seriously don't think there's a pressing need to replace him this coming season - unless their intention is to go all out and contend, which I don't think is going to happen. So for now, I'll be fine with them looking inside the org for the DH role.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 8:59 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 


Well I would hope to God that Carmona's option is declined, so he shouldn't even be a factor.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 9:21 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 


I'd really need to know which direction this team is heading or attempting to head.  If it is me, I go rebuild mode.  not enough assets to turn into useful players and not enough talent or money to fill the seemingly hundreds of holes.

I'd trade anyone and everyone on the 25 man roster (if the price is right).  including pestano, kipnis, santana.

This will never happen with Francona on board which kind of scares me b/c I have no faith in this front office to go out and evaluate talent well enough to put a winning team on the field.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 10:14 PM

Re: So what moves would you make? 


1) do what Shapiro said he was going to do about 8 years ago...build around pitching & defense.

2) bring in real talent evaluators who have the ability to pull off the above.

3) try to trade anyone not signed thru 2015 with an eye on competing in 2015 & beyond.
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Posted: 10/9/2012 3:12 AM

Re: So what moves would you make? 


I feel a good pitching coach could cure some of the problems with our starting pitching, so I'm not for going out and signing another Derek Lowe, but if we can sign a good pitcher under the age of 35 then i'm all for it...
Cleveland could use an outfielder and somebody that could split time at DH and First base with Santana...
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Posted: 10/9/2012 8:33 AM

Re: So what moves would you make? 


Before addressing personnel, I do the following:
1. Completely evaluate the performance of the entire scouting staff.  Eliminate those with a poor record, and aggressively seek the best and brightest proven talent evaluators from other organizations.  Over-paying these guys would be peanuts compared to over-paying players.
2. Do the same with the entire player development staff, throughout the minor leagues.
3. Go find the best pitching and hitting coaches at the major league level.
4. Now that you have your staff together, perform the same evaluations of all of the players in the organization, with an eye towards eliminating "filler" whenever such players may be blocking the development of high-upside talent.
5. Establish a budget, and make value judgments about all current major league salaries and options. 
6. Now, you're ready to wheel and deal.  Not to cop out, but trades require partners, and there's no way to know who is available, and at what cost.
7. My goal for next year is to field a team that the fans can get enthusiastic about, even though it will be young and will lose plenty of games.  The seats will fill up if the players on the field are exciting to watch, and hold out hope for the future.  Francisco Lindor, age 20, starting SS?  Why not?
Mike

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Posted: 10/9/2012 8:58 AM

RE: So what moves would you make? 


We need at least 2 outfielders a first baseman and a dh. If we are lucky we can fill two of those from within. While I would not be opposed to trading Perez and Choo if we trade Choo we have to come up with another outfielder.

We also need one possibly two starting pitchers and dont have anyone who has not been up for that.

So I would be looking to trade for at least one bat that can play outfield and dh and at least one decent starting pitcher. I would be looking to add a decent player (say a 10 million a year 3 year deal kind of guy) via free agency.

Because we have so many needs and because it would extend his career and because his defense is poor I would look at Santana as primarily 1b or DH with occasional starts at catcher. I would look for a cheap defensive catcher to back up Marson and make him our primary catche

While I would probably wait till the trade deadline if, as I expect, we are well out of it by then I would look at how much we could get for Cabrera.

As a reach I would at least consider trading Kipnis and moving Cabrera back to second base, I would want a ton for Kipnis but anyone is tradeable and if someone wanted to overpay I would think about it.
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Posted: 10/9/2012 9:15 AM

RE: So what moves would you make? 



jameseboy wrote: We also need one possibly two starting pitchers and dont have anyone who has not been up for that.

I'm hoping a healthy Carrasco fills 1 of those SP spots.


While I would probably wait till the trade deadline if, as I expect, we are well out of it by then I would look at how much we could get for Cabrera.

I like A-Cab, but they need to shore up their infield defense. Trade him at any time there's a decent return offered.


As a reach I would at least consider trading Kipnis and moving Cabrera back to second base, I would want a ton for Kipnis but anyone is tradeable and if someone wanted to overpay I would think about it.

I agree. This team has zero players that are good enough to be considered untouchable. Put them all on the block & see if anyone overpays.
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Posted: 10/9/2012 9:48 AM

RE: So what moves would you make? 


i would rather trade cabrera than kipnis.

and yes, i would expect carrasco to fill a rotation slot at some point next year, probably around june.
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Posted: 10/9/2012 11:09 AM

RE: So what moves would you make? 


Is Juan Diaz a guy you can start at SS? I'm genuinely asking. (Assuming you want to win more than 75 games - if you're aiming below that who cares.)

If he is, trade Cabrera. If not, things get messy.

Because no one else in the organization can take over at SS the next two years. It's Cabrera, Diaz, or outside solution, and SSs from outside tend to be expensive - either in dollars or prospects.

I'd like to see the Indians just damn sentiment and try and build a team that can be in the playoffs in two or three years. That's definitely possible, but it'll feel hard.

Last edited 10/9/2012 11:11 AM by GopherIndianHybrid

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