There are so many rumors about Knapp that I thought I would create this thread to clarify some things. I have read rumors that he will miss a full season. I have heard that he will be ready for Spring Training. So here is everything I found.

September 14, 2009 - Lonnie Soloff says that Knapp "is expected to make a full recovery in time for spring training"

September 15, 2009 - had arthroscopic surgery to remove "loose" bodies from his throwing shoulder

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=17570

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/09/c leveland_indians_wont_file_gr.html

From Sports Illustrated recently (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon _heyman/10/02/best.moves/index.html):

"Knapp, the best of that package, needed microfracture shoulder surgery soon after going to Cleveland, and one scout said he sees the others as major league contributors but something short of stars."

There was a report that claimed that Knapp "needed microfracture shoulder surgery" that would knock him "out of action for a full year." That is inaccurate, as explained in the article below.

http://www.***************.com/article_detail.php? blgId=5251

So, it seems as if Knapp is rehabbing at the team's facility in Arizona. The Indians expect him to be fully ready for Spring Training.

My question is this: where will he start in 2010? Will he begin in high-A or will they push him to AA?

High A. He's only 19. I don't think they're looking to have in the majors in 2011. They are likely aiming more for 2012. Now Hagadone, 23 and healthy, is a different story.

Hagadong should start in AA Akron and move to AAA sometime (July), and might be a September callup. If everything goes right that is.

Why would Bryson be on the DL? He's pitching in winter ball right now (and quite well from the stats I've seen) isn't he?

allhailshapiro wrote:

----DaveMcgr wrote: ---------------

Why would Bryson be on the DL? He's pitching in winter ball right now (and quite well from the stats I've seen) isn't he?

---------------------------------------------

I was making an attemt at humor, but I failed. Sorry about that.

Good to hear that Bryson is pitching again. He had, what, 2 setbacks this year with the shoulder? If healthy he should move quickly up the ladder I hope.

I think Adam Miller would've been the better choice as his injuries have been more numerous and more frequent. Plus few tribe fans know who Bryson is yet quite few are haunted by what Adam Miller could've been can be (crosses fingers).

Dcfan23 wrote: Does anyone remember Adam Miller being deemed untouchable in a dan haren deal?
Imagine Lee. CC. Haren in the same rotation + at the time a good version of carmona, westbrook. That group likely wouldve lasted only 1 season together only, but definitely WS caliber. I wouldve taken that risk

Actually it was Asdrubal Cabrera that was the breaking point (at least from my memory). Adam Miller for Delmon Young was nixed though, but in retrospect that doesn't look so bad either.

Grady2006 wrote:

There are so many rumors about Knapp that I thought I would create this thread to clarify some things. I have read rumors that he will miss a full season. I have heard that he will be ready for Spring Training.

Joe Sheehan is pushing a rumor that Knapp had 60% of one arm amputated.

brian (brooklyn): How did Cliff Lee go from bottom of the rotation fodder to Ace? Also I know you liked the return that the tribe got for Lee (and V-Mart). Has your opinion changed in the last 4 months?

Joe Sheehan: Well, Carrasco is probably not going to be that good, and Knapp is down to like 1.4 arms, so no, I think I may have missed on that evaluation.

Ocramruf wrote:

 

Grady2006 wrote:

There are so many rumors about Knapp that I thought I would create this thread to clarify some things. I have read rumors that he will miss a full season. I have heard that he will be ready for Spring Training.

Joe Sheehan is pushing a rumor that Knapp had 60% of one arm amputated.

 

brian (brooklyn): How did Cliff Lee go from bottom of the rotation fodder to Ace? Also I know you liked the return that the tribe got for Lee (and V-Mart). Has your opinion changed in the last 4 months?

Joe Sheehan: Well, Carrasco is probably not going to be that good, and Knapp is down to like 1.4 arms, so no, I think I may have missed on that evaluation.

this makes me sick.  F U shapiro

LuisMedina wrote:

 

Ocramruf wrote:

 

Grady2006 wrote:

There are so many rumors about Knapp that I thought I would create this thread to clarify some things. I have read rumors that he will miss a full season. I have heard that he will be ready for Spring Training.

Joe Sheehan is pushing a rumor that Knapp had 60% of one arm amputated.

 

brian (brooklyn): How did Cliff Lee go from bottom of the rotation fodder to Ace? Also I know you liked the return that the tribe got for Lee (and V-Mart). Has your opinion changed in the last 4 months?

Joe Sheehan: Well, Carrasco is probably not going to be that good, and Knapp is down to like 1.4 arms, so no, I think I may have missed on that evaluation.

this makes me sick.  F U shapiro

You know what would be awesome? If no one talked about this trade for another 3 years. If everything still sucks then lets complain but for as things stand right now there is no indication that they should not have done the trade. The information we have at the moment is that:

1) Ownership essentially forced (strongly encouraged) trading Lee.

2) Lee's 2009 production was completely useless to us and his 2010 was of likely little importance.

3) Lee's 2010 salary was under market yet more than we should be spending if we have no intention on contending.

4) The Phillies package was the best offered to us.

5) The players we received have relatively high potential (Knapp is high as they get, Carrasco is a borderline top pitching prospect with more upside than Rondon, and Marson and Donald are both solid position prospects with everyday upside), are locked up for a long time and cost very little money.

6) The production we get from the players we acquired will surely have more relative value to us than Lee's. This is because we are much more likely to have be in contention, or at least close to it, in 2011, 2012, 2013 and/or 2014 than we are in 2010.

Points 1, 2 and 3 spell out that we should've traded Lee. Point 4 illustrate that we accepted the best package for Lee. Points 5 and 6 show how we probably will get more value out of these players even if things don't go all Colon for us. The only worrisome part is point 4; I will be disappointed if, say the Dodgers, had a better offer on teh table but as far as we know there was no comparable offer.

Also I don't think the Lee move should be singled out. We went for quanity of higher potential pitchers over a couple blue chip guys. This means that everyone, including Masterson, Knapp, Hagadone, Carrasco, Graham, Price, Todd, Perez, Barnes and Pino should be all viewed as one pool as it's just as likely for, say Knapp and Carrasco to pan out, as it is for Masterson and Hagadone. Since it was conceptual series of trade where the view was "hey at least a couple of these guys have to pan out", I don't think we should single out one trade and say it was great and look at the other and say it was awful (however I do realize that the Victor one was better than Lee but not to the degree that many posters are trying make).

Ocramruf wrote: I think you're assuming your conclusion with #4

I am. I was trying to make that clear, but I guess I should've said something like "with best of our knowledge this was the best packaged offered". Every rumored deal to be better has be de-bunked so I feel it's only fair to assume this is the case until it was reported and confirmed otherwise.

A pretty reasonable assumption.  Come on.. if they got a better offer, they would have taken it? eh? 

AustinTribeFan wrote:

A pretty reasonable assumption.  Come on.. if they got a better offer, they would have taken it? eh?

Unless they irrationally valued a high ceiling young pitcher with arm problems and elected to turn down other options.  If our drafting has proven anything, the Indians don't have the best track record at projecting young arms.

AustinTribeFan wrote:

A pretty reasonable assumption.  Come on.. if they got a better offer, they would have taken it? eh?

I tend to trust their judgment, but....

I worry about the "they made the deal" => "it was the best one available" + "it makes sense to make a trade" =>"they did the right thing" analysis.

It seems that we could almost always make this argument.