http://journalgazette.net/arti...988/1008/SPORTS

“I know what happened the last couple of years,” he says, as Merle Haggard plays softly in the background. “I don’t broadcast it just out of respect to everybody that’s involved. Plus, you can’t really talk about that, because then it makes it look like you’re making excuses. And that’s the last thing I want to do.”

Yeah - Eric - what did happen in April the last two years?

Eric Wedge has good taste in music.

Wedge is all class, all the way.

Oasis

Yeah, Tribe fans know what happened the last couple of years too.

He gone!  Time to move on.

I'd love to hear his take.

I always hoped the best for Wedge. His communications with the fans were poor (and imo are what cost him his job as much as the slow starts), but he always seemed a stand up guy. It'd be interesting to see how guys like him would fare in a more "fair" league with a cap.

We should all call in a request to all Cleveland area country radio station and have then play a special song just for Eric Wedge.

 There's a tear in my beer .

johannmon wrote:

I'd love to hear his take.

 

I always hoped the best for Wedge. His communications with the fans were poor (and imo are what cost him his job as much as the slow starts), but he always seemed a stand up guy. It'd be interesting to see how guys like him would fare in a more "fair" league with a cap.

I don't necessarily think that Wedge had poor communication with the media...I think more than anything, he refused to air dirty laundry. He very easily could have brought everything that went on in the clubhouse to the media's attention, but what good would it have done. And what good does it do him now. Wedge always has been a class act, and I wish him the best. Don't be surprised to see a large market team sign him to manage within the next year or two (I'd even wager a bet that if the Yanks lose the World Series, Girardi goes and Wedge replaces him).

Eh, no reason to say that he knows what happened but he isn't going to talk about it.   If he really doesn't want to talk about it or "make excuses", he shouldn't even bring that up.

ctyler45 wrote:

Eh, no reason to say that he knows what happened but he isn't going to talk about it.   If he really doesn't want to talk about it or "make excuses", he shouldn't even bring that up.

Agreed.  Such insinuations work just as effectively as "excuses"--if not moreso--than actual accusations.

Certainly such a lapse in judgment shows that he's holding in some pain or bitterness, but directed at whom?  Clearly he's not shouldering the blame, but he remains anxious to point out his credits.

I wasn't a Wedge apologist or critic--I'm in the school that managers don't matter much--so I backed him longer than most, just because I believe in stability.  But Wedge's worst trait---his stubborness--became more acute as the pressure rose this year, and folding one's arms just wasn't going to get it done anymore, both in the clubhouse and in the court of public opinion.

Here's my problem....everyone seems to be blaming Wedge for the Indians problems the last few years. Those same people also call Wedge, Shapiro's puppet. Does that not make you wonder who was really calling the shots? What's to say Shapiro and the front office weren't calling the shots, and letting Wedge take the blame for bad decisions. Was Wedge going to come out and tell the media his hands were tied because he was forced to make decisions he didn't want to make, thus putting his job in jeopardy? Or was Wedge going to fold his arms and act indifferent?

No one knows the whole story, and anyone who says they can speculate what is going on, is blowing smoke. Only Wedge, and the Indians front office, truly know what was going on, and none of them are going to speak.

It will be interesting to see how the Indians do as a team next year, without Wedge. I can bet, if they do good, their trouble all along was Wedge, but if they struggle, it will be because Manny Acta is just another Shapiro puppet.

WhoAzcue wrote:

 

ctyler45 wrote:

Eh, no reason to say that he knows what happened but he isn't going to talk about it.   If he really doesn't want to talk about it or "make excuses", he shouldn't even bring that up.

 

Agreed.  Such insinuations work just as effectively as "excuses"--if not moreso--than actual accusations.

 

Certainly such a lapse in judgment shows that he's holding in some pain or bitterness, but directed at whom?  Clearly he's not shouldering the blame, but he remains anxious to point out his credits.

 

I wasn't a Wedge apologist or critic--I'm in the school that managers don't matter much--so I backed him longer than most, just because I believe in stability.  But Wedge's worst trait---his stubborness--became more acute as the pressure rose this year, and folding one's arms just wasn't going to get it done anymore, both in the clubhouse and in the court of public opinion.

ctyler45 wrote:

Eh, no reason to say that he knows what happened but he isn't going to talk about it.   If he really doesn't want to talk about it or "make excuses", he shouldn't even bring that up.

Exactly. My respect for him went down several notches. The genuinely classy thing is just to say, "I had a great run, of course there were disappontments along the way as well as high points, I'm grateful for the opportunity the organization gave me"- and then SHUT UP.

DIYguy2002 wrote:

Here's my problem....everyone seems to be blaming Wedge for the Indians problems the last few years. Those same people also call Wedge, Shapiro's puppet. Does that not make you wonder who was really calling the shots? What's to say Shapiro and the front office weren't calling the shots, and letting Wedge take the blame for bad decisions.

None of us know who was calling the shots. My guess is it was approx 50/50. In Wedge's own words, he was involved in most/all player transactions.  I think that was a huge mistake on Shapiro's part.  As much as I disliked Wedge the manager, I disliked him more as Wedge the talent evaluator.

Shapiro should not go without blame as his recent job performance has left much to be desired, but there's no denying that the past 2 teams & 3 of the past 4 under Wedge have tanked miserably out of the gate.

Heck, they were in last place with Vic, Lee, Pavano & DeRosa...they can be in last place without them, so ownership decided to trade them & cut their losses. Had Wedge been able to keep the Tribe in the race of a very weak division, we probably wouldn't have seen the fire sale of 2009. That was the final nail in Wedge's coffin.

If most of the recent decisions were Shapiro's doing, then it will show now that Wedge is gone & if things don't start to turn around soon, then I believe that Shapiro's head will be the next 1 on the chopping block.

I also believe that things will start to turn around soon & that the Tribe will be back in contention by 2011.

WahooinAtlanta wrote:

If most of the recent decisions were Shapiro's doing, then it will show now that Wedge is gone & if things don't start to turn around soon, then I believe that Shapiro's head will be the next 1 on the chopping block.

As I've mentioned before, I think the dynamic between manager and GM will be quite different now. Shapiro can't really afford to mess with Acta and CERTAINLY can't afford to make him a scapegoat and fire him. If Acta fails Shapiro is gone too, and they're both more than smart enough to know that. So we now not only have a fresh pair of eyes from outside the organization, but they belong to a guy who's got some real leverage. Let's hope he uses it wisely.

supersleuth wrote:

 

WahooinAtlanta wrote:

If most of the recent decisions were Shapiro's doing, then it will show now that Wedge is gone & if things don't start to turn around soon, then I believe that Shapiro's head will be the next 1 on the chopping block.

As I've mentioned before, I think the dynamic between manager and GM will be quite different now. Shapiro can't really afford to mess with Acta and CERTAINLY can't afford to make him a scapegoat and fire him. If Acta fails Shapiro is gone too, and they're both more than smart enough to know that. So we now not only have a fresh pair of eyes from outside the organization, but they belong to a guy who's got some real leverage. Let's hope he uses it wisely.

+1

WahooinAtlanta wrote:

 

DIYguy2002 wrote:

Here's my problem....everyone seems to be blaming Wedge for the Indians problems the last few years. Those same people also call Wedge, Shapiro's puppet. Does that not make you wonder who was really calling the shots? What's to say Shapiro and the front office weren't calling the shots, and letting Wedge take the blame for bad decisions.

None of us know who was calling the shots. My guess is it was approx 50/50. In Wedge's own words, he was involved in most/all player transactions.  I think that was a huge mistake on Shapiro's part.  As much as I disliked Wedge the manager, I disliked him more as Wedge the talent evaluator.

 

I think you will find that all managers are involved in most/all player transactions. The manager is the one that is around them all the time. In fact, what is the point of having a manager if he isn't involved in the decision making procees? The manager should know what his team needs, and if he doesn't, he shouldn't be managing the team in the first place.

 

Shapiro should not go without blame as his recent job performance has left much to be desired, but there's no denying that the past 2 teams & 3 of the past 4 under Wedge have tanked miserably out of the gate.

 

What you don't mention is that the past two seasons, key players stumbled out of the gates injured. When you lose key guys and don't have major league bodies to replace them, failure happens. That should not fall on Wedge, but on Shapiro and the talent evaluators.

 

Heck, they were in last place with Vic, Lee, Pavano & DeRosa...they can be in last place without them, so ownership decided to trade them & cut their losses. Had Wedge been able to keep the Tribe in the race of a very weak division, we probably wouldn't have seen the fire sale of 2009. That was the final nail in Wedge's coffin.

 

Again, I think injuries had a large part to do with the tank. Tell me...do you think if we had gotten full seasons out of everybody, we would have been as bad as we were. In the past two seasons we played a significant amount of games without Victor, Cabrera, Sizemore, Hafner, Lee, Carmona, Westbrook, plus half the bullpen.

 

If most of the recent decisions were Shapiro's doing, then it will show now that Wedge is gone & if things don't start to turn around soon, then I believe that Shapiro's head will be the next 1 on the chopping block.

 

I think this goes beyond Shapiro as well. As with Wedge, he can't be blamed for the injuries either. He can be blamed for not bringing in all of the appropriate talent this team needed to overcome injuries to key players.

 

I also believe that things will start to turn around soon & that the Tribe will be back in contention by 2011.

 

I agree with this too, but not for the same reason you do. I can't see us getting hit with as many injuries in the next few years as we have been hit with in the past few years.

I don't think it mattered who the manager was the past two seasons, injuries derailed both seasons early (as well as I think in 08 the uncertainty with Sabathia really messed with the team as they were among the best teams in the majors after he was traded). In all honesty, if we had gone into 2008 and gotten full seasons from everybody (and CC had been signed long term), we would have won the Central Division. Had we done good in 2008, 2009 never would have happened the way it did either.

Yeah, I know what happened too.

The Tribe was not a particularly good baseball team.  Way over-rated by the FO, the national media and most posters on this board.

Having said that, the team underperformed under Wedge the last two years, and way underperformed out of the gate which cost Dolan millions.

Wedge got the job of his dreams, one of 30 such jobs available in the world.  He retained the job for 7 years, which is longer than most.  He made a lot of money, enough to secure the financial security for himself and young family for life.  Not a bad result.

He wants another MLB gig and will probably get it.  He's smart and disciplined enough to keep his mouth shut so as to not to make his future bosses scared of him rocking the boat and airing dirty laundry in public.

I highly doubt he'll get a manager job in any big market.  He's simply not that good.  Kinda out of touch with today's players.  John Wayne?  That makes perfect sense.  He'd be a decent hire for a small market team that's scuffling.  He has experience and some moderate success that he can point to.  Managers who are difference makers are rare, and Wedge aint one of them.  But he's not a disaster either, and for sure tight lipped.

He's an average manager, who's definately a "good soldier" who wont rock the boat.  Is he the special guy that Shapiro promised?  No way.

DIYguy2002 wrote: I don't think it mattered who the manager was the past two seasons, injuries derailed both seasons early (as well as I think in 08 the uncertainty with Sabathia really messed with the team as they were among the best teams in the majors after he was traded). In all honesty, if we had gone into 2008 and gotten full seasons from everybody (and CC had been signed long term), we would have won the Central Division. Had we done good in 2008, 2009 never would have happened the way it did either.

Tell that to Ron Gardenhire.  He lost Mauer for a month, Morneau for 3 weeks.  His top starter pitched just 90 innings & his top set-up man pitched just 15.  His team still won the Central.

All teams have injuries. Some use them for excuses. Some win in spite of them.

i think gapwedge has a good perspective - wedge was OK, nothing special. and it's hard to overlook the results - 4 of the past 5 years wedge's team considerably underperformed its expectations as measured by runs vs. runs allowed.

WahooinAtlanta wrote:

 

DIYguy2002 wrote: I don't think it mattered who the manager was the past two seasons, injuries derailed both seasons early (as well as I think in 08 the uncertainty with Sabathia really messed with the team as they were among the best teams in the majors after he was traded). In all honesty, if we had gone into 2008 and gotten full seasons from everybody (and CC had been signed long term), we would have won the Central Division. Had we done good in 2008, 2009 never would have happened the way it did either.

Tell that to Ron Gardenhire.  He lost Mauer for a month, Morneau for 3 weeks.  His top starter pitched just 90 innings & his top set-up man pitched just 15.  His team still won the Central.

 

All teams have injuries. Some use them for excuses. Some win in spite of them.

Kevin Slowey is not the Twins top pitcher.

The Twins had better SP deoth than the Indians. MUCH better.

That's not to defend Wedge, but you can't blame Wedge for it either.