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IS Cleveland still in the hunt?????

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Posted: 7/27/2014 9:14 AM

IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


Looking at all the talk and trading around both leagues, teams are making moves to help there weakness. Cleveland must feel that they can move forward with there anemic lineup? Watching the past 3 games against the royals, this team need help. Are we buyers or sellers??? In my opinion we need another good bat and decent starter. What's your take moving forward
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Posted: 7/27/2014 11:12 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


sell as much as possible. only MLB untouchables should be brantley, gomes, ramirez, kluber, allen, bauer. anyone else, they ought to at least listen on.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 12:21 PM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 



bayside123 wrote: Looking at all the talk and trading around both leagues, teams are making moves to help there weakness. Cleveland must feel that they can move forward with there anemic lineup? Watching the past 3 games against the royals, this team need help. Are we buyers or sellers??? In my opinion we need another good bat and decent starter. What's your take moving forward
Funny how baseball works. A week ago we had won the first 3 games of a 4-game series against division leading Detroit and were knocking on their doorstep.  At that time i would have said we should be buyers.  But since then, the Indians have gone out and lost 6 out of 7 games and have fallen way back in the division and would have to leapfrog 4 teams to get the final Wild Card spot.  Now I'd say we are definitely sellers.  Of the big league roster, these are the only guys IMO that should be retained:

Brantley
Santana
Kipnis
Chisenhall
Gomes
Kluber
Bauer
Salazar
Cody Allen

There are some other guys I'd keep unless we got a good value offer.  Guys like Carrasco, Bryan Shaw, Scrabble, Hagadone, Ramirez

I'd like to get extended looks at obviously Ramirez as well as Aguilar and I'd like to see Carlos Moncrief and Erik Gonazlez up at some point this year.  Depending on what trades are made, maybe you add a Tyler Naquin to the 40-man and give him some run with the big league club.  And I know some will chastise me for this, but I'd still like to see Lindor at some point in September when the rosters are expanded.

But yeah at this point, it's time to sell.  I'd take anything anyone would give me for Swisher and Bourn just to get out from underneath some of their contract (as I'd imagine any trade for them would include us paying at least some of their salary).  Asdrubal ought to be able to get us a quality prospect or 2 as should Masterson depending on the team of course.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 1:49 PM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


What could they possibly buy? They don't have the assets to get anything meaningful. And since they'll probably have a successful homestand [eight games] they won't trade Kipnis which makes the most sense.

Bread
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Posted: 7/27/2014 2:12 PM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


Where did all this trade Kipnis crap come from??? You don't trade a guy you just extended because of a couple subpar months (including a nagging significant injury-oblique). This talk is just reckless.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:54 PM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


Typical Cleveland Fans on several sites I have seen this trade Kipnis stuff the guy is just having a down season he suffered a injury that everyone new would bother him the rest of the season.

I guess for these none understanding fans it would be OK if they suffered the same injury at their work place and was only able to perform at 75 % instead of 100% that their employer could just let them go.

Our problems with this team is much worse than Kipnis struggles right now, we have a #1 in Kluber a # 4 in Bauer a #5 in Salazer / Mcallister / Tomlin and 2 major holes at #2 & #3 in the rotation.

Our line up day in and day out contains 3 to 4 hitters in key locations of the line-up hitting between 200 - 235 That is the real problem we have several guys who are having horrible off years where would this team have been over the 1st half without the great play of our Bullpen / Kluber and Chisenhall ( who has greatly Cooled down over the last 6 weeks).

Trade Kipnis ??? bangheadbanghead How Ridiculous look how weak 2nd base is around the league you would sure have other many GM's lining up for him.
DCTribefan wrote: Where did all this trade Kipnis crap come from??? You don't trade a guy you just extended because of a couple subpar months (including a nagging significant injury-oblique). This talk is just reckless.

Last edited 7/27/2014 4:55 PM by kcatthebat

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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:22 PM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


you aren't buyers or sellers...  I mean if you can pick up a bat for nothing or if you can make a move for a guy who can help in the majors today and in the next couple years (that is, a player not a prospect) you do it...

otherwise you play the season out as see if you can make a run...

the tradable guys are struggling and there's no point giving up anything for a rental...

so buyer or seller?
neither...

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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:25 PM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 



kcatthebat wrote: Typical Cleveland Fans on several sites I have seen this trade Kipnis stuff the guy is just having a down season he suffered a injury that everyone new would bother him the rest of the season.

I guess for these none understanding fans it would be OK if they suffered the same injury at their work place and was only able to perform at 75 % instead of 100% that their employer could just let them go.

Trade Kipnis ??? bangheadbanghead How Ridiculous look how weak 2nd base is around the league you would sure have other many GM's lining up for him.
DCTribefan wrote: Where did all this trade Kipnis crap come from??? You don't trade a guy you just extended because of a couple subpar months (including a nagging significant injury-oblique). This talk is just reckless.
It's comforting to me that you--a guy who STILL thinks Ryan Howard has value--would believe trading Kipnis is absurd and that GM's would be lining around the block wanting him.  That makes me think it's not too late to deal him, that people continue to ignore his horrendous second half last year (oblique then too?) and believe he's an honest-to-god "real" second baseman and still is Dustin Pedroia "lite."

Trade him...trade him NOW.  There's no doubt in my mind on the dollar/WAR continuum, Jose Ramirez would be FAR outperforming Kipnis if they both played every day at second base somewhere.  Kipnis is by far our most attractive trading chip with someone logically ready to take over the position in a way that will actually improve the team regardless of the return we'd get.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:56 PM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 



kcatthebat wrote: Typical Cleveland Fans on several sites I have seen this trade Kipnis stuff the guy is just having a down season he suffered a injury that everyone new would bother him the rest of the season.

I guess for these none understanding fans it would be OK if they suffered the same injury at their work place and was only able to perform at 75 % instead of 100% that their employer could just let them go.

Our problems with this team is much worse than Kipnis struggles right now, we have a #1 in Kluber a # 4 in Bauer a #5 in Salazer / Mcallister / Tomlin and 2 major holes at #2 & #3 in the rotation.

Our line up day in and day out contains 3 to 4 hitters in key locations of the line-up hitting between 200 - 235 That is the real problem we have several guys who are having horrible off years where would this team have been over the 1st half without the great play of our Bullpen / Kluber and Chisenhall ( who has greatly Cooled down over the last 6 weeks).

Trade Kipnis ??? bangheadbanghead How Ridiculous look how weak 2nd base is around the league you would sure have other many GM's lining up for him.
DCTribefan wrote: Where did all this trade Kipnis crap come from??? You don't trade a guy you just extended because of a couple subpar months (including a nagging significant injury-oblique). This talk is just reckless.
I don't think Kipnis is getting traded, but if someone overwhelmed you it would have to be strongly considered.

Unless there is a trade 2015 lineup looks like this
c- Gomes
ib- Santana
2b-Kipnis
ss Lindor 
3b-Chiz
dh-Bro..eek!
of- Brantley Bourn and Murphy, don't remember if he has an option for next year

Close to impossible to move Bourn and Swisher.
Doubtful you could get much for Chiz till you see if he's going to be consistent...if he's still improving next year you keep him.

Brantley, Gomes and Santana are the core.

This team needs a big right handed stick for the 4 hole who preferably plays right field. Is that guy out there, I don't know. We also need a starter to go with kluber and hopefully Bauer-Salazar, if Kipnis could net us one or maybe both of those I would do it.

It's not that I'm anti-Kip, it's just that the way this team is currently constructed, and it's strength in infielders throughout the system and the possibility to get a big haul if the "good Kip" is portrayed would .have to be considered.

Now, I don't think it will happen and I'm for anything that will get this team to contend. Maybe it is the oblique, maybe Swisher and Bourn will be better, maybe Aguilar will produce in the middle of the lineup....I don't know.But if this team can fill the glaring holes for a big stick and or a starter Kip would be the logical trading chip.

Don't hate me...just give me alternatives on how you would improve this team or just hope everyone gets better.

Bread
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Posted: 7/27/2014 9:02 PM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 



This is how I see it as well. They just don't really have much to sell, frankly. Or more importantly, no one they HAVE to sell this season.

I imagine we could see a smaller move or two, but I imagine it will be a quiet July for the Tribe.

---------------------------------------------
--- buckeyedanpt2 wrote:

you aren't buyers or sellers...  I mean if you can pick up a bat for nothing or if you can make a move for a guy who can help in the majors today and in the next couple years (that is, a player not a prospect) you do it...

otherwise you play the season out as see if you can make a run...

the tradable guys are struggling and there's no point giving up anything for a rental...

so buyer or seller?
neither...



---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 7/28/2014 7:36 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


Teams should always be open to trading anybody on their team, but now isn't the right time for Kipnis. If for some crazy reason the Pirates called and offered Starling Marte, then count me as interested. Both players are having down years but are signed to long-term deals that are team friendly.

This is not happening because A) Marte's contract is better and B) The Pirates have Neil Walker, but that is the only type of deal I think would make sense for Kipnis right now. I used Marte because he was the most similar guy to Kipnis I could think of in terms of production this year and long-term contract. There may be guys out there at similar deals.

There is a third reason this wouldn't happen, too, and it's that teams seem to prefer to bet on their own guys to bounce back. I can understand why, too.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 7:42 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


I was on board with trading Santana in the offseason since he was no longer catching, but I would have to be completely bowled over to accept that at this point. He had a completely awful start, but he is turning in his best season so far now.

His wRC+ is 138 on a BABIP of 0.253. His WAR is currently 2.9, which means he should easily eclipse his best mark of 3.5. At this point in the game, there are very few guys I would rather have at 1B. Goldschmidt, Freeman, Cabrera, Abreu, (maybe) Encarnacion, and (maybe) Rizzo.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 8:54 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 



ProfessorRossEforp wrote: I was on board with trading Santana in the offseason since he was no longer catching, but I would have to be completely bowled over to accept that at this point. He had a completely awful start, but he is turning in his best season so far now.

His wRC+ is 138 on a BABIP of 0.253. His WAR is currently 2.9, which means he should easily eclipse his best mark of 3.5. At this point in the game, there are very few guys I would rather have at 1B. Goldschmidt, Freeman, Cabrera, Abreu, (maybe) Encarnacion, and (maybe) Rizzo.
Agree that Santana's resurgence at the plate, and surprisingly his good glove work at 1B, make me content to keep him through the term of his team-friendly contract.  Of course this does create a logjam that forces Swisher to be a highly paid DH who seemingly has forgotten how to hit.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 11:35 PM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 



ProfessorRossEforp wrote: I was on board with trading Santana in the offseason since he was no longer catching, but I would have to be completely bowled over to accept that at this point. He had a completely awful start, but he is turning in his best season so far now.

His wRC+ is 138 on a BABIP of 0.253. His WAR is currently 2.9, which means he should easily eclipse his best mark of 3.5. At this point in the game, there are very few guys I would rather have at 1B. Goldschmidt, Freeman, Cabrera, Abreu, (maybe) Encarnacion, and (maybe) Rizzo.
Now that the "crisis" has passed (i.e. how to keep Carlos happy; little did we know Swisher would make it so easy) I completely agree that there's no need figure out what to do with Carlos.  It's been figured out, thank goodness.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 12:00 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


You forgot Albert Pujos and Joey Votto and Prince fielder when healthy.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:00 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 





---------------------------------------------
--- Tribefan2003 wrote:

You forgot Albert Pujos and Joey Votto and Prince fielder when healthy.

---------------------------------------------

No to Pujols and Fielder. It had been two full seasons since Fielder was better.

Yes to Votto.

No to all of their contracts.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:51 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


It's time for about a 10 game win streak and play .500 ball to the finish and the answer is yes.  Otherwise, might be on the outside looking in.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:53 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 



BrianBell wrote:
bayside123 wrote: Looking at all the talk and trading around both leagues, teams are making moves to help there weakness. Cleveland must feel that they can move forward with there anemic lineup? Watching the past 3 games against the royals, this team need help. Are we buyers or sellers??? In my opinion we need another good bat and decent starter. What's your take moving forward
Funny how baseball works. A week ago we had won the first 3 games of a 4-game series against division leading Detroit and were knocking on their doorstep.  At that time i would have said we should be buyers.  But since then, the Indians have gone out and lost 6 out of 7 games and have fallen way back in the division and would have to leapfrog 4 teams to get the final Wild Card spot.  Now I'd say we are definitely sellers.  Of the big league roster, these are the only guys IMO that should be retained:

Brantley
Santana
Kipnis
Chisenhall
Gomes
Kluber
Bauer
Salazar
Cody Allen

There are some other guys I'd keep unless we got a good value offer.  Guys like Carrasco, Bryan Shaw, Scrabble, Hagadone, Ramirez

I'd like to get extended looks at obviously Ramirez as well as Aguilar and I'd like to see Carlos Moncrief and Erik Gonazlez up at some point this year.  Depending on what trades are made, maybe you add a Tyler Naquin to the 40-man and give him some run with the big league club.  And I know some will chastise me for this, but I'd still like to see Lindor at some point in September when the rosters are expanded.

But yeah at this point, it's time to sell.  I'd take anything anyone would give me for Swisher and Bourn just to get out from underneath some of their contract (as I'd imagine any trade for them would include us paying at least some of their salary).  Asdrubal ought to be able to get us a quality prospect or 2 as should Masterson depending on the team of course.
No way this team is a seller.  I couldn't disagree more.  I think the FO sits around, waits for Tito's magic to happen and sees if they get hot.  If they do they get in.  If they don't, well........no way they sell though.  We're not the Red Sox.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 10:45 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 



ncinthenext3 wrote:
BrianBell wrote:
bayside123 wrote: Looking at all the talk and trading around both leagues, teams are making moves to help there weakness. Cleveland must feel that they can move forward with there anemic lineup? Watching the past 3 games against the royals, this team need help. Are we buyers or sellers??? In my opinion we need another good bat and decent starter. What's your take moving forward
Funny how baseball works. A week ago we had won the first 3 games of a 4-game series against division leading Detroit and were knocking on their doorstep.  At that time i would have said we should be buyers.  But since then, the Indians have gone out and lost 6 out of 7 games and have fallen way back in the division and would have to leapfrog 4 teams to get the final Wild Card spot.  Now I'd say we are definitely sellers.  Of the big league roster, these are the only guys IMO that should be retained:

Brantley
Santana
Kipnis
Chisenhall
Gomes
Kluber
Bauer
Salazar
Cody Allen

There are some other guys I'd keep unless we got a good value offer.  Guys like Carrasco, Bryan Shaw, Scrabble, Hagadone, Ramirez

I'd like to get extended looks at obviously Ramirez as well as Aguilar and I'd like to see Carlos Moncrief and Erik Gonazlez up at some point this year.  Depending on what trades are made, maybe you add a Tyler Naquin to the 40-man and give him some run with the big league club.  And I know some will chastise me for this, but I'd still like to see Lindor at some point in September when the rosters are expanded.

But yeah at this point, it's time to sell.  I'd take anything anyone would give me for Swisher and Bourn just to get out from underneath some of their contract (as I'd imagine any trade for them would include us paying at least some of their salary).  Asdrubal ought to be able to get us a quality prospect or 2 as should Masterson depending on the team of course.
No way this team is a seller.  I couldn't disagree more.  I think the FO sits around, waits for Tito's magic to happen and sees if they get hot.  If they do they get in.  If they don't, well........no way they sell though.  We're not the Red Sox.
We're not catching Detroit in the division that much is simple enough.  And we have to jump over  four teams in the Wild Card plus hold off a white hot Tampa team who is right on our heels.  Last year there weren't nearly as many teams to jump over in the Wild Card race.  Last year on this date we were only a half a game out in the Wild Card and only chasing one team; Baltimore.  This year we are 4.5 games out are chasing Kansas City, the Yankees, Seattle and Toronto.  If we were in the spot we were in last year, I'd agree wholeheartedly, but we are not.  This current team doesn't have it in them to make the run that last year's team made at the end of the season to get in.

At this point if any team offers the Indians anything of real value for Cabrera or Masterson, I think they should take it and not think twice.  If any team is crazy enough to offer anything for Swisher or Bourn, they should take it and not think twice.  This team as it stands is only good enough to be about a .500 team and that simply isn't going to get them into the playoffs.  That's why I say trade our soon-to-be free agents because this team won't be able to retain them anyway because they have to much money invested into Bourn and Swisher who have both been huge disappointments.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 11:11 AM

Re: IS Cleveland still in the hunt????? 


I think they can deal Masterson and Cabrera without significantly changing their chances at winning.

There is, apparently, no action on Bartolo Colon right now. He is owed roughly $14MM through next year. I would be happy with that. Considering the Mets have been reported to be willing to eat $2MM, they must not be expecting a big return.
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