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Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF

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Posted: 2/5/2013 5:41 PM

Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


As some of you may recall, last year, I started a thread, "All-Time Tribe Team." I posted my roster and many others responded with their own version. This year, I have an idea for a similar thread, but with different rules:


I'll post a poll weekly asking for your vote of who you'd like to see on your all-time Tribe team. The leading vote-getter in each category will win his respective role on the team. 


Here's how the roster will be compiled: Players that have already been voted in are in italics

Starters:

C Sandy Alomar
1B Jim Thome
2B Nap Lajoie
3B Al Rosen
SS Lou Boudreau
LF 
CF Tris Speaker
RF Manny Ramirez
DH

- Note: The DH can be anybody, not just an exclusive DH. However, maybe keep in mind that some players don't hit as well without the rhythm of playing the field.

Bench:
4OF
C
IF

Starting Rotation:
SP1 Bob Feller
SP2 Addie Joss
SP3
SP4
SP5

BullPen:
LHP
LHP
RHP
RHP
P
SU
CL

- Note: The criteria for the pitching staff is as follows: 
      - The starting pitchers can be anyone, regardless of dominant hand. So we could have five southpaws or a 3/2 split. No limit there.
      - As for the 'pen, the closer must have been a closer when he pitched, and the setup man can be anyone who was used predominantly in the bullpen. The other five members of the 'pen can be former starters or relievers. In other words, we could have both CC Sabathia and Raffy Betancourt in the pen. But CC could not be the SU or CL.


That puts us at a 24-player roster. The 25th will be your choice of position player or pitcher, and will be voted upon last.


Criteria for Voting
A player will be judged based solely on what he did for the tribe. So, even though Eddie Murray hit 500+ career HRs, he only hit 50 for the Tribe, thus not a great candidate for a spot. On the other hand, a guy like Mel Harder gets bonus points for his longevity with Cleveland.
Also, feel free to write in a vote if your guy isn't an option.


Let me know what you think! I'll try to post a poll once every five days or so, give us a way to pass the time until opening day. When the last poll is completed, I'll post a composite list of the roster, and we could discuss lineups, matchups, etc.

(The above message will be re-posted in its entirety in every poll)



Tris sweeps up center.

Left should be wide open. I could see 5-7 guys getting votes. 


    Who is your starting left fielder?

  1. Poll closed on 02/12/2013
  2. Earl Averill: 3 votes
  3. Albert Belle: 16 votes
  4. Rocky Colavito: 3 votes
  5. Larry Doby: 3 votes
  6. Elmer Flick: 0 votes
  7. Jeff Heath: 0 votes
  8. Joe Jackson: 2 votes
  9. Charlie Jamieson: 0 votes
  10. Kenny Lofton: 1 vote
  11. Dale Mitchell: 0 votes
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Posted: 2/5/2013 6:47 PM

Re: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 



mooseahoy wrote:

As some of you may recall, last year, I started a thread, "All-Time Tribe Team." I posted my roster and many others responded with their own version. This year, I have an idea for a similar thread, but with different rules:


I'll post a poll weekly asking for your vote of who you'd like to see on your all-time Tribe team. The leading vote-getter in each category will win his respective role on the team. 


Here's how the roster will be compiled: Players that have already been voted in are in italics

Starters:

C Sandy Alomar
1B Jim Thome
2B Nap Lajoie
3B Al Rosen
SS Lou Boudreau
LF 
CF Tris Speaker
RF Manny Ramirez
DH

- Note: The DH can be anybody, not just an exclusive DH. However, maybe keep in mind that some players don't hit as well without the rhythm of playing the field.

Bench:
4OF
C
IF

Starting Rotation:
SP1 Bob Feller
SP2 Addie Joss
SP3
SP4
SP5

BullPen:
LHP
LHP
RHP
RHP
P
SU
CL

- Note: The criteria for the pitching staff is as follows: 
      - The starting pitchers can be anyone, regardless of dominant hand. So we could have five southpaws or a 3/2 split. No limit there.
      - As for the 'pen, the closer must have been a closer when he pitched, and the setup man can be anyone who was used predominantly in the bullpen. The other five members of the 'pen can be former starters or relievers. In other words, we could have both CC Sabathia and Raffy Betancourt in the pen. But CC could not be the SU or CL.


That puts us at a 24-player roster. The 25th will be your choice of position player or pitcher, and will be voted upon last.


Criteria for Voting
A player will be judged based solely on what he did for the tribe. So, even though Eddie Murray hit 500+ career HRs, he only hit 50 for the Tribe, thus not a great candidate for a spot. On the other hand, a guy like Mel Harder gets bonus points for his longevity with Cleveland.
Also, feel free to write in a vote if your guy isn't an option.


Let me know what you think! I'll try to post a poll once every five days or so, give us a way to pass the time until opening day. When the last poll is completed, I'll post a composite list of the roster, and we could discuss lineups, matchups, etc.

(The above message will be re-posted in its entirety in every poll)



Tris sweeps up center.

Left should be wide open. I could see 5-7 guys getting votes. 



I'll vote for Averill despite him playing center with us. That said, Jesse Burkett is the best LF in Cleveland Baseball history
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Posted: 2/5/2013 6:58 PM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


Haven't yet voted but Averill is probably my favorite right now.

Agree on Burkett but Spiders are not included
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Posted: 2/5/2013 11:06 PM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


Man this one is tough. Five guys stand out to me: Belle, Averill, Jackson, Flick, Doby. It's really hard to pick one of them. They are all very even.

Even though the corked bat story is absolutely hilarious, Belle gets eliminated because of it.

None of the other four were predominant LFs, but Jackson and Flick played RF and did spend significant time in LF. So let's consider:
- Doby is the only one of the bunch to win a ship.
- Jackson has the best numbers, but he was here for a much shorter period.
- They all seem to be pretty equal in the field (for as much as history can tell us). Even though only Flick and Jackson played significant time in LF, Doby and Averill each have small sample sizes in the corner. Averill seems to be the best overall fielder, albeit he spent most of his time in center


I feel like Shoeless Joe is the best overall player, but nobody sustained elite play for an extended period like Earl. I'll take Averill in what's not much more than a toss-up.


Edit: Looks like Shoeless Joe was indeed a predominant LF, but my vote stands.

Last edited 2/6/2013 2:22 PM by mooseahoy

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Posted: 2/6/2013 2:08 AM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


Had to go Albert Belle here.  Corked bat or no corked bat, there's no questioning his ability to hit the ball.  Only guy with 50+ doubles and 50+ HR's in a single season.  Averaged 39 HR and 118 RBI per season once becoming an everyday player with the Indians (and those numbers include the strike shortened 1994 season a year where he was on pace for 55 HR and 155 RBI).  Was he a jerk of a person?  Yeah, but there's no denying his ability.  A guy that deserves to be in the HOF for his play, but won't ever get in because of a bunch of baseball writers who held personal grudges for one reason or another.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 2:20 AM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 



BrianBell wrote: Had to go Albert Belle here.  Corked bat or no corked bat, there's no questioning his ability to hit the ball.  Only guy with 50+ doubles and 50+ HR's in a single season. 
That stat is unreal. He's basically a 2-time MVP in my books. Had absolutely no competition in '94 before the strike, and was flat-out robbed of it in '95.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 6:24 AM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


averill and doby played almost no LF. jackson played about 500 games there, belle more than 1,000. gotta be belle.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 10:30 AM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


A guy that deserves to be in the HOF for his play, but won't ever get in because of a bunch of baseball writers who held personal grudges for one reason or another.

----------------

i think a more likely reason he won't make it is his injury-shortened career. hell of a peak, but he only played 10 full seasons. that really hurts his counting stats, and that really hurts his chances.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 11:19 AM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


Albert Belle is a HOF quality player, but his career falls short of what I would deem necessary to make the hall.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 11:26 AM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 



buddy34 wrote: A guy that deserves to be in the HOF for his play, but won't ever get in because of a bunch of baseball writers who held personal grudges for one reason or another.

----------------

i think a more likely reason he won't make it is his injury-shortened career. hell of a peak, but he only played 10 full seasons. that really hurts his counting stats, and that really hurts his chances.
If you look at his stat line even in 10 full seasons, writers would recognize that his career numbers would have been much better if not for the degenerative hip disorder.  Belle didn't endear himself to the media, refused to do pre-game and post-game interviews and was downright disrespectful to the media, most of which are the individuals who decide who goes into the HOF and who doesn't. 

You can't tell me that if Miguel Cabrera were to have a career ending injury before the start of this year, that he would not get into the HOF and Cabrera's 10-year stat line is very similar to that of Albert Belle.  Kirby Puckett got into the HOF despite having his career shortened by injury and Belle actually has a better career stat line than Puckett.

I'm sorry but IMHO what cost Belle the HOF the most was his total "disrespect" to the media who are the primary voters in the HOF process.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 11:42 AM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


doesn't matter what they might have been. they are what they are.

puckett is not a great comp - he was a CF and a pretty good defensive one for much of that time, and he played 12 full years.  belle was a pretty brutal LF and DH who played 10 full seasons.

even so, i would argue puckett doesn't belong in the HOF, either.

the writers have elected plenty of buttheads over the years, and they will elect more. if that was a real criteria the HOF would be thinned considerably.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 11:48 AM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


Yeah, Kirby does not belong.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 1:00 PM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 



mooseahoy wrote:
BrianBell wrote: Had to go Albert Belle here.  Corked bat or no corked bat, there's no questioning his ability to hit the ball.  Only guy with 50+ doubles and 50+ HR's in a single season. 
That stat is unreal. He's basically a 2-time MVP in my books. Had absolutely no competition in '94 before the strike, and was flat-out robbed of it in '95.
I have a buddy from Boston who still teases me about the "Mo Valuable" SI cover.

The thing that kills me is that there were at least three better choices than Vaughn:

Mo (1B): .300/.388/.575  39HR/126RBI  144 OPS+
Joey Belle (OF): .317/.401/.690   50/126  177 OPS+
Player A (DH):  .356(!)/.479(!)/.628  29/113  185 OPS+
Player B (SS!): .298/.399/.533   27/102  138 OPS+
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Posted: 2/6/2013 1:42 PM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


Voted for Belle for 2 different reasons, Number one was his production and number 2 was because of a personal story.

When he was still part of the Canton/Akron Indians my father would take me to the games as a teenager. One game after the warmups were completed he pointed at the stands and threw a strike right to me, as he was coming back in at the end of the inning he stopped and told me to see him after the game and he would sign the ball. He got thrown out of the game 2 innings later so was not able to get the ball signed but I sit here over 20 years later and I still have that ball and he will remain my favorite Indian of all time.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 2:14 PM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 



4everaDawg wrote: Voted for Belle for 2 different reasons, Number one was his production and number 2 was because of a personal story.

When he was still part of the Canton/Akron Indians my father would take me to the games as a teenager. One game after the warmups were completed he pointed at the stands and threw a strike right to me, as he was coming back in at the end of the inning he stopped and told me to see him after the game and he would sign the ball. He got thrown out of the game 2 innings later so was not able to get the ball signed but I sit here over 20 years later and I still have that ball and he will remain my favorite Indian of all time.
This made me laugh out loud.

But really, it is nice to see a nice-guy Albert story amidst the jerk tales. From all indications he's grown up since his playing days. I have no grudge.
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Posted: 2/6/2013 2:36 PM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 



Ocramruf wrote:
mooseahoy wrote:
BrianBell wrote: Had to go Albert Belle here.  Corked bat or no corked bat, there's no questioning his ability to hit the ball.  Only guy with 50+ doubles and 50+ HR's in a single season. 
That stat is unreal. He's basically a 2-time MVP in my books. Had absolutely no competition in '94 before the strike, and was flat-out robbed of it in '95.
I have a buddy from Boston who still teases me about the "Mo Valuable" SI cover.

The thing that kills me is that there were at least three better choices than Vaughn:

Mo (1B): .300/.388/.575  39HR/126RBI  144 OPS+
Joey Belle (OF): .317/.401/.690   50/126  177 OPS+
Player A (DH):  .356(!)/.479(!)/.628  29/113  185 OPS+
Player B (SS!): .298/.399/.533   27/102  138 OPS+
I'll bite. Edgar and Cal?
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Posted: 2/6/2013 3:28 PM

RE: Indians Ink All-Time Tribe Team: LF 


john valentin??? never, never would have guessed that one. edgar was a gimmee

and yea, vaughn was no better than 5th MVP that year, and could easily move even further down that list.
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