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Sickels ranks Tribe farm system

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Posted: 1/28/2013 6:18 PM

Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


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Posted: 1/28/2013 11:57 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


24) Cleveland Indians (27): I thought this system could take a big step forward but it didn't really happen. Strengths: Trevor Bauer and some lively arms behind him. Middle infield depth beginning with Francisco Lindor and Dorssys Paulino. Weaknesses: uninspired performances from young tools players at the lower levels, but there is still time for those guys to come around. The Indians remain an organization that could take a big leap forward in ‘13.

I don't know how I should really feel about this. I guess I can't argue with the weaknesses. It just seems to me that they downgrade the system too much for having the top tier prospects at the lower levels.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 9:12 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


Probably not that unfair a downgrade though.

I think we all agree that an A ball prospect shouldn't have the same value as a AAA prospect.  Similar to money, as a dollar that you'll be getting in June of this year is worth more than a dollar that you would be getting in June of 2015, the same is true for prospects. 

So unless your prospect a A ball is just so great that he might be up in the majors by next year, you have to give more value in evaluating a farm system to those who are nearer to the ML.  I like our lower level prospects, but it's not like they are A-Rod, Barry Bonds, or Ken Griffey Jr. were in their time in the lower minors.

Nice thing is that if we draft well again and some of our A ball players bust out, we will be looked at much higher next season.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 11:56 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


Lindor could be ranked in the top 10-15 this year. If Bauer is still ranked this year he'd have to be a top 20 guy. With Paulino getting some heat as well he could be ranked. All they would need is one or two more ranked players in the top 100 (Agular, R. Rod, possibly Salazar by year end) and this is a better than average system, making the 24th spot seem like an extreme lowball.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 9:25 AM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 



skydancing wrote: Lindor could be ranked in the top 10-15 this year. If Bauer is still ranked this year he'd have to be a top 20 guy. With Paulino getting some heat as well he could be ranked. All they would need is one or two more ranked players in the top 100 (Agular, R. Rod, possibly Salazar by year end) and this is a better than average system, making the 24th spot seem like an extreme lowball.
Cleveland's minor league ranking is probably more about the depth of talent in their system and the lack of starting pitching prospects outside of Bauer.  And there is a good chance that Bauer will be off the list for next year so more talent needs to emerge.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 10:19 AM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


From Houston:


"Strengths: 2012 draft class looks excellent thanks to inventive exploitation of new draft rules."

Does anyone know what this "inventive exploitation" was?

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Posted: 1/30/2013 10:57 AM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 



Ocramruf wrote: From Houston:


"Strengths: 2012 draft class looks excellent thanks to inventive exploitation of new draft rules."

Does anyone know what this "inventive exploitation" was?

Paid first overall pick $2.4 million less than slotted amount allowing them to pay well over slot for a number of other guys.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 11:08 AM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 



CalBuckeyeRob wrote:
Ocramruf wrote: From Houston:


"Strengths: 2012 draft class looks excellent thanks to inventive exploitation of new draft rules."

Does anyone know what this "inventive exploitation" was?

Paid first overall pick $2.4 million less than slotted amount allowing them to pay well over slot for a number of other guys.
Yes, but more specifically they drafted him with the expectation that they could sign him for considerably less than the allocated amount and to use the money to he;p sign other draftees.  For examle, Keith Law wrote right after the draft:

I love this draft. They’ll likely sign first overall pick Carlos Correa (1) for well less than the $7.2 million assigned value — I’m expecting something around $4.5 million — and spread the money to high-upside prep pitcher Lance McCullers Jr. (1A) and sweet-swinging third baseman Rio Ruiz (4). Shortstop Nolan Fontana (2) stays at the position with great instincts, an average but accurate arm and a great eye at the plate.

Link
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Posted: 1/30/2013 2:15 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 



JenniferMarie wrote:
CalBuckeyeRob wrote:
Ocramruf wrote: From Houston:


"Strengths: 2012 draft class looks excellent thanks to inventive exploitation of new draft rules."

Does anyone know what this "inventive exploitation" was?

Paid first overall pick $2.4 million less than slotted amount allowing them to pay well over slot for a number of other guys.
Yes, but more specifically they drafted him with the expectation that they could sign him for considerably less than the allocated amount and to use the money to he;p sign other draftees.  For examle, Keith Law wrote right after the draft:

I love this draft. They’ll likely sign first overall pick Carlos Correa (1) for well less than the $7.2 million assigned value — I’m expecting something around $4.5 million — and spread the money to high-upside prep pitcher Lance McCullers Jr. (1A) and sweet-swinging third baseman Rio Ruiz (4). Shortstop Nolan Fontana (2) stays at the position with great instincts, an average but accurate arm and a great eye at the plate.

Link
Correa was signed 3 days after the draft.  I think it is fair to believe the Astros had more than an expectation he would sign below slot.  They had the framework for the deal in place before he was drafted and that is why he was picked. 

http://www.chron.com/sports/as...ick-3615358.php
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Posted: 1/30/2013 3:31 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 



CalBuckeyeRob wrote:
JenniferMarie wrote:
CalBuckeyeRob wrote:
Ocramruf wrote: From Houston:


"Strengths: 2012 draft class looks excellent thanks to inventive exploitation of new draft rules."

Does anyone know what this "inventive exploitation" was?

Paid first overall pick $2.4 million less than slotted amount allowing them to pay well over slot for a number of other guys.
Yes, but more specifically they drafted him with the expectation that they could sign him for considerably less than the allocated amount and to use the money to he;p sign other draftees.  For examle, Keith Law wrote right after the draft:

I love this draft. They’ll likely sign first overall pick Carlos Correa (1) for well less than the $7.2 million assigned value — I’m expecting something around $4.5 million — and spread the money to high-upside prep pitcher Lance McCullers Jr. (1A) and sweet-swinging third baseman Rio Ruiz (4). Shortstop Nolan Fontana (2) stays at the position with great instincts, an average but accurate arm and a great eye at the plate.

Link
Correa was signed 3 days after the draft.  I think it is fair to believe the Astros had more than an expectation he would sign below slot.  They had the framework for the deal in place before he was drafted and that is why he was picked. 

http://www.chron.com/sports/as...ick-3615358.php
Am I missing something?  Even if the Astros had a firm verbal agreement with him prior to the draft they only had an "expectation" that he would sign.

Is your point that instead of using the word "expectation" I should have offered a  degree of "expectation" such as "highest possible degree of expectation?"  If so, you entirely missed my point.

Your post could have been read that they drafted him and then were able to sign him for much less. Since I understood what you were saying I agreed with you and clarified rather then disagreeing with you and correcting.

Of course, the Astros reasonably knew what it would cost to sign; MLB teams talk to the agents of prospects before the draft.

Correra was not necessarily the top rated prospect, for example BA had it him ranked sixth.  BA had Buxton ranked sixth (who signed for $6 million).  And there was an expectation by many that the Astros would draft Appel, ranked third and who ultimately didn't.

My point, and I believe Sickel's, was that the Astros didn't draft Correra and then got lucky on the amount of the signing bonus.  What the Astros appeared to do was seek out a top prospect that they could sign for considerably less than the allocated amount and then draft players they could sign with the amount in the pool that was left.

But you already know all of the above so I'm puzzled why you nitpicked over my use of "expectations."
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Posted: 1/30/2013 5:37 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


From your response I now see we were on the same page. I view expectation as what you believe will happen based on the projected value of the player and what a reasonable person in his position should do. If his people tell you that he will do it if he is the first pick, then you have more than an expectation though he always has the legal right to never follow through and sign the deal.     

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Posted: 1/30/2013 5:42 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


If a team fails to sign a top pick but spends their entire draft allotment, do they get full slot value on the comp pick?
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Posted: 1/30/2013 9:49 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 




---------------------------------------------
--- CalBuckeyeRob wrote:


Ocramruf wrote: From Houston:


"Strengths: 2012 draft class looks excellent thanks to inventive exploitation of new draft rules."

Does anyone know what this "inventive exploitation" was?

Paid first overall pick $2.4 million less than slotted amount allowing them to pay well over slot for a number of other guys.

---------------------------------------------

Thanks - I have approximately 0 awareness of what NL teams do.

Although to be honest it doesn't strike me as particularly "inventive". Billy Beane blazed this trail quite a while back.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:39 AM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 



Lando12 wrote: If a team fails to sign a top pick but spends their entire draft allotment, do they get full slot value on the comp pick?

My guess is that it would work once, and then they'd change the rules.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:56 AM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 



Ocramruf wrote:



Although to be honest it doesn't strike me as particularly "inventive". Billy Beane blazed this trail quite a while back.

Well, sort of.

Billy Beane did it simply to save money since they had none to spend. The Astros did it so they could take harder signs later.

The Indians did the same thing, but to a lesser extent.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 1:22 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


I think once they don't sign their top pick the team lose the money alloted for that draft choice.  If they go 5% over their alloted amount to spend I believe their is a penalty. 


Ocramruf wrote:
Lando12 wrote: If a team fails to sign a top pick but spends their entire draft allotment, do they get full slot value on the comp pick?

My guess is that it would work once, and then they'd change the rules.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:11 AM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


Law's (pay)

19. Cleveland Indians

With Francisco Lindor and Dorssys Paulino, they have some of the best shortstop depth of any organization in baseball right now. They could be primed for a big leap if any of the young pitching they've drafted the past two years comes through in 2013.



This seems reasonable. There's a good bunch of talent at the lower levels, but it hasn't quite performed yet.
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Posted: 3/29/2013 2:37 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 


According to Hoynes, Wolters is going to be converted to catcher. Also, Jose Ramirez is starting the year at AA.
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Posted: 3/29/2013 2:45 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 



indiansfan1234 wrote: According to Hoynes, Wolters is going to be converted to catcher. Also, Jose Ramirez is starting the year at AA.
Wolters to catcher?
image
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Posted: 3/29/2013 2:51 PM

RE: Sickels ranks Tribe farm system 



DCTribefan wrote:
indiansfan1234 wrote: According to Hoynes, Wolters is going to be converted to catcher. Also, Jose Ramirez is starting the year at AA.
Wolters to catcher?
image
That's got to be a typo. In fact, I'll go so far as to say it's not even a remote possibility. Number 1, he's not big enough to be converted to catcher. Number 2, he's a solid MIF prospect. Number 3 his bat would be considered solid for a MIF'er but borderline for a catcher.

There is nothing about this rumored move that makes any sense whatsoever. It's just not true. It can't be. And if there were anything to this at all, whoever came up with this ridiculous idea should be fired on the spot.
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