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A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team.

Posted: 12/23/2012 4:36 PM

A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 


      Some might recall this past season I was very vocal about how I felt about the Indians front office and ownership. I said that if they ever did something that showed me that they actually care about winning I would give an apology. Well that day is today. 

I don't know what has gotten into this team but I have seen a MUCH more aggressive attitude when it comes to bringing players in. They did trade Choo but got a really good pitching prospect in return so I'm ok with that. As I don't really see Choo becoming that much of a star with the Reds. This team has gone out and spent a fair amount of money as well with the Swisher deal. They have proven me wrong And I LOVE IT. I hope they keep up this aggression going forward It has been really nice to see. But I thought I would live up to what I said and admit that I was wrong about this team not caring. LET GO TRIBE biggrin

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Posted: 12/23/2012 5:24 PM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 


It's been a great offseason for the Indians.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:13 PM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



greggleeb wrote: It's been a great offseason for the Indians.

Everybody knows I've been as hard as anybody on Antonetti and the front office. But this is one off season that I can say has certainly led me to possibly have some belief in Antonetti.

It certainly appears that he learned a huge lesson from his last off season, which I don't think anybody can argue was a miserable failure.

All that being said, we all know that in sports, it's "what have you done for me lately". devil
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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:32 PM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



TitoFrancona wrote:
greggleeb wrote: It's been a great offseason for the Indians.

Everybody knows I've been as hard as anybody on Antonetti and the front office. But this is one off season that I can say has certainly led me to possibly have some belief in Antonetti.

It certainly appears that he learned a huge lesson from his last off season, which I don't think anybody can argue was a miserable failure.

All that being said, we all know that in sports, it's "what have you done for me lately". devil
Tito -- There may have been lessons learned but the Tribe has had a whole lot of additional payroll flexibility.

And are you really claiming to have been as big a critic as WIA?
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Posted: 12/23/2012 8:11 PM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



JenniferMarie wrote:
Tito -- There may have been lessons learned but the Tribe has had a whole lot of additional payroll flexibility.

And are you really claiming to have been as big a critic as WIA?
I would say I haven't been quite as vocal. biggrin

Let me add 1 thing though, if you remember, WIA actually did like Antonetti before last winter. He said he liked the fact that Antonetti wasn't afraid to make controversial moves and he was all for the Ubaldo trade.

But last winter just killed his high opinion of Antonetti, and I certainly understood that.

Last edited 12/23/2012 8:15 PM by TitoFrancona

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Posted: 12/24/2012 1:06 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



greggleeb wrote: It's been a great offseason for the Indians.
I agree first one in a long while That I can think of. I don't know what got into the front office this year but I like it I really like it
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Posted: 12/24/2012 2:02 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



mstribe wrote:

I don't know what got into the front office this year but I like it I really like it

Hmmm...it's the same front office...what got into you?  Are you simply heartened that the Indians are willing to spend a bazillion dollars to prove that "they want to win"?  And that if they hadn't spent a bazillion dollars these professionals were never interested in winning? 

I'm glad you're happy with the course the Tribe is taking.  If there is one benefit to the Swisher signing--and believe me, I welcome this--it has at least led to a temporary respite from the bitter bashing the team has been enduring.  But I have little faith that if this doesn't work out that these same fans are going to be so forgiving.  In fact, I can guarantee the bashing will return even worse than before (how dare they raise my hopes!)

Boyfriends can often buy back good graces from the galfriend with a nice dinner out and some jewelry, but those "Oh, Hon!" apologies are hollow unless they signal a sincere desire to reward good intentions whether or not there is success or failure in the end.  Or whether or not money is spent.

I'll never understand why giving one guy--ONE GUY--a bazillion dollars can cause fans to be so appreciative, but if this is what it takes to remove all the slings of arrows, darts, and spitballs aimed at the front office over the last couple of years, then maybe this was the right move after all.  Off the field at least.  Let's hope the Era of Good Feeling lasts.  The whole organization needs some breathing room.

Last edited 12/24/2012 2:33 AM by WhoAzcue

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Posted: 12/24/2012 10:45 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



WhoAzcue wrote:
mstribe wrote:

I don't know what got into the front office this year but I like it I really like it

Hmmm...it's the same front office...what got into you?  Are you simply heartened that the Indians are willing to spend a bazillion dollars to prove that "they want to win"?  And that if they hadn't spent a bazillion dollars these professionals were never interested in winning? 

I'm glad you're happy with the course the Tribe is taking.  If there is one benefit to the Swisher signing--and believe me, I welcome this--it has at least led to a temporary respite from the bitter bashing the team has been enduring.  But I have little faith that if this doesn't work out that these same fans are going to be so forgiving.  In fact, I can guarantee the bashing will return even worse than before (how dare they raise my hopes!)

Boyfriends can often buy back good graces from the galfriend with a nice dinner out and some jewelry, but those "Oh, Hon!" apologies are hollow unless they signal a sincere desire to reward good intentions whether or not there is success or failure in the end.  Or whether or not money is spent.

I'll never understand why giving one guy--ONE GUY--a bazillion dollars can cause fans to be so appreciative, but if this is what it takes to remove all the slings of arrows, darts, and spitballs aimed at the front office over the last couple of years, then maybe this was the right move after all.  Off the field at least.  Let's hope the Era of Good Feeling lasts.  The whole organization needs some breathing room.
What has gotten in to me is that unlike last year I can look at this team and say yes there trying. Couldn't do that last year when they were throwing Damon out there every day for monthes even when it was clear that he really didn't have anything left. Same with Lowe start after start he didn't have anything but they kept throwing him out there till it was clear they were out of it.There big pick up at the deadling was Lars Anderson that was it. Meanwhile the White sox made a move that kept them in it for FAR longer even though they went into the season "rebuilding". There was no where near this aggersion that they are showing now to improve the team. They haven't even spent a whole ton of money to do it. And I was happy with the moves before Swisher. I think Scott Kazmir could be a good pick up. I liked the trade they made. I'm not as unreasonable as you think. I just want to be able to look at the team and say there trying. I didn't feel that last year before the season even started. This year I can say I do. I really like what I'm seeing the moves they have made along with a actual MLB manager this team can be in it for the AL central in September.
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Posted: 12/24/2012 10:47 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 


They have been trying to give their money away noidea

It isn't their fault that people claimed offers to guys like Beltran and Willingham were either disingenuous or simply leaked to patsies to report as if they actually wanted to spend money.


There is no significant change in the operating procedures here, except that the Swisher deal is a bit longer than they seem to have been willing to get involved with.
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Posted: 12/24/2012 12:48 PM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 


I'm holding out for a little more.

But they get a A so far biggrin
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Posted: 12/24/2012 1:16 PM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 


Jeez, sign some guy (slightly above journeyman level) to over 10 mil per season and you guys seem to think that the Cleveland Indians, led by the same group of bozo's as before, just hit the lottery.  But then, maybe it's just the season and you just want to be happy.  

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Posted: 12/24/2012 1:49 PM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



biggie4 wrote:

Jeez, sign some guy (slightly above journeyman level) to over 10 mil per season and you guys seem to think that the Cleveland Indians, led by the same group of bozo's as before, just hit the lottery.  But then, maybe it's just the season and you just want to be happy.  


Slightly above "journeyman" level?

WhoAzcue has been really the only personal critical of this deal, but I think he can at least admit that Nick Swisher is pretty good at baseball.
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Posted: 12/24/2012 2:11 PM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 


Living in NYC and having been subjected to watching more Yankees games than I would like based on a eye evaluation and not digging through statistics Swish is a very good baseball player. Will be one of our top 2 or 3 players at the plate. Yes he has played 81 games at Yankees Staduim the last few years but Progressive Field is a hitters park as wel and Swish hit just as well out side of NYC. Also Swisher isn't a great fielder but the guy hustles, has a great attitude and made some real nice plays in the field. His fielding isn't a plus but I don't know if I would say its a negative. He plays a nice 1B too.

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--- MrBananaGrabber85 wrote:


biggie4 wrote: Jeez, sign some guy (slightly above journeyman level) to over 10 mil per season and you guys seem to think that the Cleveland Indians, led by the same group of bozo's as before, just hit the lottery.  But then, maybe it's just the season and you just want to be happy.  


Slightly above "journeyman" level?

WhoAzcue has been really the only personal critical of this deal, but I think he can at least admit that Nick Swisher is pretty good at baseball.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 12/24/2012 2:18 PM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



biggie4 wrote:

Jeez, sign some guy (slightly above journeyman level) to over 10 mil per season and you guys seem to think that the Cleveland Indians, led by the same group of bozo's as before, just hit the lottery.  But then, maybe it's just the season and you just want to be happy.  

I'll see your "Jeez," raise it with a "Sigh" and call.

I can't speak for anyone else and the signing of Swisher doesn't make we want to go out skinny dipping to celebrate.

I am, however, cautiously optimistic that with the increased financial flexibly and increasing revenues over the next two years ownership and the FO is able to abandon the approach they were forced to use, able to return to the pre-2008 model and appear to recognize the current opportunity to build a contending team and appear to be taking the necessary initial steps.
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Posted: 12/25/2012 12:30 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



MrBananaGrabber85 wrote:

It isn't their fault that people claimed offers to guys like Beltran and Willingham were either disingenuous or simply leaked to patsies to report as if they actually wanted to spend money.

This.  And make it a double.

For once, the Tribe got lucky.  The market didn't develop for Swisher, and he was left weighing fewer options for fewer dollars than he probably expected.  In a sense, he fell into our lap, if you can call making that kind of commitment fortunate.

Regardless, you and I know what the reaction would have been had we not signed him after making the exact same offer he accepted.  Instead of being lauded for "stepping up," the Tribe would have been criticized for "not doing what it takes" to win, and many would believe we never made an offer at all, or at best a token one to try and fool the public into believing we were "playas."

Oh, and you're correct, I regard Nick Swisher as a fine ballplayer, one who doubtless helps to make the lineup significantly deeper in 2013.  I just see him soon entering a fairly steep decline, one that (underneath the numbers) began last year.  The time for the Tribe to get guys like Swisher and Napoli and Willingham is not as this phase of their careers, but earlier when they were not as highly regarded for whatever reason.  When Texas got Napoli from the Angels and Cashman got Swisher from the White Sox...that's when advance scouts and talent evaluators have to be at the top of their game.  I'm hopeful that we may wring a good year or three out of Drew Stubbs because that's the kind of acquisition we have to be sharp on; counting on having a Swisher literally fall to us (or chasing Shane Victorino, god forbid) is not an efficient (or more reliable) way to fill holes on a team in our circumstances.

Last edited 12/25/2012 12:32 AM by WhoAzcue

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Posted: 12/25/2012 12:53 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 


At most, this is a stop gap decision to hopefully buy time for the minor league system to start producing more quality major league talent.  Without that, no team can compete on a budget.
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Posted: 12/25/2012 2:36 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 


I still am dying to know which other teams Swisher went to visit on his "tour" I have a feeling deep down that the other "teams" were imaginary.
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Posted: 12/25/2012 3:33 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



Dromag67 wrote: I still am dying to know which other teams Swisher went to visit on his "tour" I have a feeling deep down that the other "teams" were imaginary.

Could very well be true.  I'll admit even I was surprised how the market dried up for this guy once our terms became known.  I have to think the Swisher camp was stunned, especially after seeing what Shane got.
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Posted: 12/25/2012 6:40 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 


Before signing Swisher Michael Brantley was our best outfielder. I like MB but he is far from a "stud" impact guy.

Stubhub by default would be our second best OFer. Dude has serious skills and I look forward to him patrolling centerfield but his K numbers are scary.

What's left from the major league roster and anywhere near ready minor leaguers is abysmal. Hopefully the organization can draft and develop some outfielders over the next few years and we can put a legitimate homegrown guy in right while Swisher may be DHing the last two years or so of his contract.

Trading Cabrera to get outfield help would weaken SS and lower the chances to improve the pitching[doubtful ACab would net us a stud pitcher and an outfielder]

I agree there has to be a major upgrade in the drafting and developing of players for the long range success of the organization but the signing of Nick Swisher fills a gigantic hole, creates more flexibility if they decide to deal Cabrera and gives us all a break from watching Duncan, Damon etc slowly and methodically kill our summer pleasure.

Azcue- If Swisher gets hurt or doesn't "live up" to his contract I vow to you I will not bash the FO for this signing. It was the right move IMHO.

Bread

Last edited 12/25/2012 6:42 AM by breadman20

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Posted: 12/25/2012 8:37 AM

Re: A overdue apology to my favorite baseball team. 



TitoFrancona wrote:
greggleeb wrote: It's been a great offseason for the Indians.

Everybody knows I've been as hard as anybody on Antonetti and the front office. But this is one off season that I can say has certainly led me to possibly have some belief in Antonetti.

It certainly appears that he learned a huge lesson from his last off season, which I don't think anybody can argue was a miserable failure.

All that being said, we all know that in sports, it's "what have you done for me lately". devil
What did he learn?  You said he learned something, so what was it?

'His' miserable failure last year was Dolan not spending money.

Blaming the FO for Dolan's cheapness is just old news.
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