Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
InboxChat RoomChat Room (0 fans in chatroom)
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 4  Next >

Droobs 2 Cards?

Posted: 11/14/2012 3:49 AM

Droobs 2 Cards? 


Jeff Gordon of St Louis Post-Dispatch suggested the Tribe & Cards would make excellent partners in a Droobs deal.

Available Cards:

SP Lance Lynn (18-7/3.78/All Star),

Prospect SP Seth Blair (power arm/2-0/1.04/20k/17 in: AZ Fall league & AZ St pedigree): ranked to be above any Tribe prospect,

Prospect 1B Matt Adams (TX League): .300/31/102/.923 ops

Prospect RP Jorge Rondon (power arm): any relation 2 Hector?

Thoughts!

biggrin

Last edited 11/14/2012 11:43 PM by masseur07

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/14/2012 8:28 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


I think we could move Droobs and not really get any worse this year if we get a young starting pitcher or OF. Or 1B.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/14/2012 9:21 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


i agree, though i would say the starting pitcher is the most important element in that.

i like pretty much everything about lance lynn - ability, K rate, contract, age. he'd look good at the top of the tribe rotation for the next 4 years.

Last edited 11/14/2012 9:30 AM by buddy34

Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/14/2012 10:05 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


If we could somehow get Lynn and Adams, then the Indians must make that deal.  Lynn is under team control for at least 5 more years and Matt Adams even though he's left-handed looks to have some serious power and would be under team control for 6 years.  I doubt they'd give up that much (we'd likely have to settle for 1 or the other and in that case I think I'd take Lynn), but I can always hope.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/14/2012 5:52 PM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 



masseur07 wrote: Jeff Gordon of St Louis Post-Dispatch suggested the Tribe & Cards would make excellent partners in a Droobs deal.

Available Cards:

SP Lance Lynn (18-7/3.78/All Star),

Prospect SP Seth Blair (power arm/2-0/1.04/20k/17 in: AZ Fall league & AZ St pedigree): ranked to be above any Tribe prospect,

Prospect 1B Matt Adams (TX League): .300/31/102/.923 ops

Prospect RP Jorge Rondon (power arm): any realtion 2 Hector?

Thoughts!

biggrin


“Here are a few possible chips Mozeliak could play without flinching:”

 

Gordon then lists Seth Blair, Matt Adams, Matt Carpentar, Eduardo Sanchez, and Jorge Rondon.

If that is the opening trade pitch-- a collection of pieces and parts for an all-star shortstop-- the proper response would be the opposing position of silliness, "how about Miller, Rosenthal, Kelly, and Tavares?"   The Tribe might be in a position of need but it isn't desperate.  

He then goes on to add:

 

“Cleveland could hold out for one of the big three Cardinals pitching prospects (Rosenthal, Miller and Kelly). The Indians could even demand Lance Lynn while driving up the bidding for Cabrera among multiple suitors.”

Could?  How about should because the Indian's don't have to trade Asdrubal Cabrera.  I'd sit on Shelby Miller or Trevor Rosenthal or Oscar Tavares as the anchor to any potential deal.  If the Cardinal's don't like that position...oh well, they can always go sign Cesar Izturis to play shortstop.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports...668b81827a.html


 








 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/14/2012 6:08 PM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


if the indians can't get lynn, miller or rosenthal, at least, then they should walk away. i'd start with lynn and hold pretty fast right there. if we could get another lower level prospect that fills a need, that would be great too.

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/15/2012 7:05 PM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


Do I have this right:  Lance Lynn is a 25 year old all-star pitcher making the league minimum, under team control for 5 years.

If that is the case, there is no way in the world the Cards part with him for 2 years of Asdrubal Cabrera.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/15/2012 7:09 PM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


you wouldn't think so, but the cards have a lot of starting pitchers, and they've never been keen on young pitching.

the other two teams the indians should be pimping cabrera to are the diamondbacks and the red sox, though i prefer the dbacks because they have a lot of excellent looking young pitching.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/15/2012 8:24 PM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


Lynn is likely available.  Nothing in his minor league progression suggested he would be an impact player in the majors.  He spent much of 2011 as a middle reliever and was going to repeat that role in 2012 until Carpenter failed to answer the bell to start the season.  He had a 1.31 WHIP and 3.78 ERA which does not support the record.  His ERA was 28th in the NL, behind Paul Maholm and Lucas Harrell among many others.  Shelby Miller and Rosenthal are much more highly touted so I expect St. Louis would move him now when his value is at its peak.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/16/2012 8:13 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 



CalBuckeyeRob wrote: Lynn is likely available.  Nothing in his minor league progression suggested he would be an impact player in the majors.  He spent much of 2011 as a middle reliever and was going to repeat that role in 2012 until Carpenter failed to answer the bell to start the season.  He had a 1.31 WHIP and 3.78 ERA which does not support the record.  His ERA was 28th in the NL, behind Paul Maholm and Lucas Harrell among many others.  Shelby Miller and Rosenthal are much more highly touted so I expect St. Louis would move him now when his value is at its peak.
So the question then becomes would the Tribe be selling low on ACab??
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 8:27 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 



DCTribefan wrote:
CalBuckeyeRob wrote: Lynn is likely available.  Nothing in his minor league progression suggested he would be an impact player in the majors.  He spent much of 2011 as a middle reliever and was going to repeat that role in 2012 until Carpenter failed to answer the bell to start the season.  He had a 1.31 WHIP and 3.78 ERA which does not support the record.  His ERA was 28th in the NL, behind Paul Maholm and Lucas Harrell among many others.  Shelby Miller and Rosenthal are much more highly touted so I expect St. Louis would move him now when his value is at its peak.
So the question then becomes would the Tribe be selling low on ACab??
I think we now have a pretty good book of performance on Cabrera and 2011 was the likely outlier.  Given the fact he is likely gone in 2 years and there seems no chance this team is competing the next 2 years with this rotation, I would move him if I could get 1 or more long term rotation pieces in the deal.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/16/2012 8:30 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


i'd rather have lynn than either of the other guys, i think. he's got stuff, a big body and great peripherals. this is a guy who may not have been a top prospect, but has made himself a very good starting pitcher. he's an unusual case, where he started as a command pitcher and now has velocity.

here's a synopsis from fangraphs at the end of the season:

Lance Lynn, Right-Handed Pitcher
: Lynn rode a rollercoaster during his minor league career, going from first round prospect to almost falling off the map to being one of the more promising young players on the big league roster – thanks mainly to a big jump in velocity.

2010 (Ranked 1st overall): “Lynn doesn’t light up the radar gun, but he has a solid repertoire that he commands well, he does a relatively nice job of pounding the strike zone (this slipped a bit in double-A) and he’s a big, strong, durable guy. The right-hander doesn’t really project as a top-of-the-rotation starter, but he should be a solid No. 3 guy who could pitch a few years at the level of a No. 2.”

2011 (Ranked 7th overall): “Lynn has the potential to develop into a durable No. 3 or 4 starter. He’s a big, strong athlete, although his fastball has just average velocity in the 88-92 mph range. It has excellent sink, in part due to the downward plane that Lynn gets on his pitches… He’ll likely return to triple-A for 2011 but Lynn should be ready to serve as an emergency injury fill-in at the MLB level.”

2012 (Ranked 13th overall): “A former first round draft pick, Lynn was a fairly unexciting inning-eating starter in the minor leagues. His fastball sat in the 88-92 mph range and his secondary stuff was good-but-not-great. Shifted to the bullpen part way through ’11, Lynn’s fastball jumped into the mid 90s and touched 97-98 mph. He enters 2012 with a lot of potential as a high-leverage with his fastball-curveball combination.”

Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 10:08 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 



buddy34 wrote: i'd rather have lynn than either of the other guys, i think. he's got stuff, a big body and great peripherals. this is a guy who may not have been a top prospect, but has made himself a very good starting pitcher. he's an unusual case, where he started as a command pitcher and now has velocity.

here's a synopsis from fangraphs at the end of the season:

Lance Lynn, Right-Handed Pitcher
: Lynn rode a rollercoaster during his minor league career, going from first round prospect to almost falling off the map to being one of the more promising young players on the big league roster – thanks mainly to a big jump in velocity.

2010 (Ranked 1st overall): “Lynn doesn’t light up the radar gun, but he has a solid repertoire that he commands well, he does a relatively nice job of pounding the strike zone (this slipped a bit in double-A) and he’s a big, strong, durable guy. The right-hander doesn’t really project as a top-of-the-rotation starter, but he should be a solid No. 3 guy who could pitch a few years at the level of a No. 2.”

2011 (Ranked 7th overall): “Lynn has the potential to develop into a durable No. 3 or 4 starter. He’s a big, strong athlete, although his fastball has just average velocity in the 88-92 mph range. It has excellent sink, in part due to the downward plane that Lynn gets on his pitches… He’ll likely return to triple-A for 2011 but Lynn should be ready to serve as an emergency injury fill-in at the MLB level.”

2012 (Ranked 13th overall): “A former first round draft pick, Lynn was a fairly unexciting inning-eating starter in the minor leagues. His fastball sat in the 88-92 mph range and his secondary stuff was good-but-not-great. Shifted to the bullpen part way through ’11, Lynn’s fastball jumped into the mid 90s and touched 97-98 mph. He enters 2012 with a lot of potential as a high-leverage with his fastball-curveball combination.”

His K total was quite impressive last year but his WHIP and ERA were essentially average.  The average ERA in the NL was 3.95.  The average WHIP was 1.31.  While he clearly is an upgrade for the Indians and would step right in, he needs to get substantially better to ever repeat 18 wins or make another All Star team.  Could that happen?  Of course.  But unless he can drop either the walks or hits allowed he is basically a .500 pitcher in skills.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/16/2012 10:54 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


baloney. his K rate was 2nd in the league among qualified starters. he was 12th in the NL in both FIP and xFIP, hios Sierra was 11th and his BABIP was worst among regular starters. he was 19th in WAR, and if he'd pitched a full season (200-plus innings) he would have probably been close to 12th in that as well.

his 18-7 record, while nice, is pretty much irrelevant, largely due to his team scoring 5.9 runs per game for him.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/16/2012 11:21 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


IMHO they should hold out for Shelby & Adams or move on to the next team.

Just from some of the writings rumors from St Louis end the Cardinals seem to really be focused on trying to get Astro.

Even though Lance Lynn put together a very nice season last season there is no real track record that would believe Lynn can be this same type of pitcher year in and year out over a long period of time.

With Shelby and a couple of others there is at least a minor league track record at more than 1 level so saying that trading for Lynn if it happens would make me feel very uneasy not to say we already have plenty of back of the rotation talent in the organization it is Front Of The Rotation Talent the entire organization lacks at the moment.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/16/2012 11:53 AM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


Management has to have the upper hand on this transaction or get screwed by the cardinals on a player that they seem to be desperately seeking. If not move on to the next propective trading team!!
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 1:43 PM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


Just some food for though:

Lance Lynn through the end of July:

13-4 3.42 ERA 1.24 WHIP

Lance Lynn after July:

5-3 4.58 ERA 1.49 WHIP

Lynn's 2012 could easily be explained as him being tired towards the end of the season.  Remember, he was penciled in for the bullpen for the Cards in spring training.  Then when Carpenter went down, the Cardinals put a rush on getting Lynn's "arm stretched out" so that he could be put into the rotation.  Lynn only pitched a grand total of 110 innings in 2011 between the minors and majors and as of the end of July, his 2012 innings mark was at 121, which would also be another pretty good indicator of him liking being worn out at that point.  He was actually moved to the bullpen for a while late in the season.  IMHO, with a full season under his belt, I think it's more likely that he performs at the 3.42 ERA/1.24 WHIP level that he started out at as opposed to the 3.80 ERA/1.32 WHIP level he put up for the whole season and I don't care what league it is, a sub 3.50 ERA and a sub 1.30 WHIP is #1 starter material for a majority of the teams in the league. 

To me it's real simple, if you have the choice between a proven in Lance Lynn, and a potential in the form of Shelby Miller, I'd much rather have the proven commodity.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 1:55 PM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 



CalBuckeyeRob wrote: Lynn is likely available.  Nothing in his minor league progression suggested he would be an impact player in the majors.  He spent much of 2011 as a middle reliever and was going to repeat that role in 2012 until Carpenter failed to answer the bell to start the season.  He had a 1.31 WHIP and 3.78 ERA which does not support the record.  His ERA was 28th in the NL, behind Paul Maholm and Lucas Harrell among many others.  Shelby Miller and Rosenthal are much more highly touted so I expect St. Louis would move him now when his value is at its peak.
That would make sense for the Cardinals, but I'd focus on Miller and Rosenthal. 

The Cardinals are also looking for lefty relievers, and their minor league system appears short at short (Pete Kozma and Ryan Jackson types).  Why not expand the deal and ask for both Miller and Rosenthal?  If you're gonna dream, dream bigtongue

Cabrera, Sipp or Hagadone, and Wolters or Rodriguez for Miller, Rosenthal, Adams, and a filler (low-level prospect or 40-man spare).
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 11/16/2012 2:52 PM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 


you know how hunter felt when the angels offered him a 1/5 deal? that's how the cardinals are going to feel about that kind of offer.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 2:54 PM

Re: Droobs 2 Cards? 



buddy34 wrote: baloney. his K rate was 2nd in the league among qualified starters. he was 12th in the NL in both FIP and xFIP, hios Sierra was 11th and his BABIP was worst among regular starters. he was 19th in WAR, and if he'd pitched a full season (200-plus innings) he would have probably been close to 12th in that as well.

his 18-7 record, while nice, is pretty much irrelevant, largely due to his team scoring 5.9 runs per game for him.
A fair point that some of the deeper stats indicate he was much better than average and in the second tier of NL starters in 2012.  He had a horrible August, was pulled temporarily from the rotation in September but finished very strong.  Those are certainly good signs going forward.  Odd that 3 of the 4 highest starter BABIP in the NL were St. Louis starters (Westbrook and Wainwright).  Not sure if there is some park effect in play, a useless defender in the IF or just random variation.
Reply | Quote
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 4  Next >