Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
Inbox

School shooting Conn. Moved to new OT forum under pic forum.

Avatar

Posted: 12/14/2012 1:26 PM

School shooting Conn. Moved to new OT forum under pic forum. 


This is one scary, crazy tragedy.  My heart goes out to all those killed, wounded and affected.  unreal....................................18 children in the 27 killed.  An elementary school.  Why?  How can a person become so nuts?  I can only imagine the thoughts and feelings of the people there.  May God be with them.

Last edited 12/25/2012 12:39 AM by cincykid

Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/14/2012 1:45 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


My wife went and picked up our 5 yr old from her kindergarten class immediately when she heard this today.

We might be 1000 miles away, but scares you just the same.

Certainly will be praying for all involved. I also hope the debate doesn't instantly turn political (guns). For once I hope folks allow the families time to grieve and when time comes to discuss this horror that people will actually focus on the driver of this type of evil, mental illness.


Will be praying for all, as I said, but no prayers can possible touch the grief of those 27 or so families....
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/14/2012 2:51 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


The families need to be given the time and space to grieve, we're talking little kids murdered.  This is the most horrific event of its kind ever in this country imo. 911 and Okla City were more devasating but were terror plots not the face to face murder of kids in an elementary school.  Oh so so sad.  Dignity and respect for the families has to be top priority.  God be with them, they need you.

People kill using many things, guns, bats, knives, rocks, cars.  Mental illness is the real problem, lots going around.  Sad what some of us have become.  Reason, too often, is tossed out the window.......but that is what mental illness is somewhat, I guess.  No reasonable God fearing person would murder another but an elementary school, that is more than mental illness, I think it is plain Evil, demonic.  Maybe giving families and/or docs an easier method of hospitalizing patients in need of serious mental help without their consent, I dunno.  My jaw is still hanging open and the lump is still in my throat.  Sad.

Taub, I certainly understand your wife, our kids are what life is about.  We all should Hug our kids and our wives. We can only imagine and offer prayers. 


TauBag94 wrote: My wife went and picked up our 5 yr old from her kindergarten class immediately when she heard this today.

We might be 1000 miles away, but scares you just the same.

Certainly will be praying for all involved. I also hope the debate doesn't instantly turn political (guns). For once I hope folks allow the families time to grieve and when time comes to discuss this horror that people will actually focus on the driver of this type of evil, mental illness.


Will be praying for all, as I said, but no prayers can possible touch the grief of those 27 or so families....

Last edited 12/14/2012 6:54 PM by cincykid

Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/14/2012 3:09 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


Hugged mine and on way to mall (yeah, another place that gets crazy folks to shoot) for a Santa visit.

Another time and place will be happy to have indepth discussion on this topic. I actually represent 1/2 of my county's Involuntary Commitments (judicial ordered hospital treatment) and have to give seminars 4 or 5 times a year to groups on local LEOs for their CIT certifications.

The Cho stuff back at VaTch was big horror, this is way, way worse. Willing to bet dollars to donuts this Lanza **** had a documented history of mental health distress, whether it got reported to the civil authorities, though is a whole different matter (HIPPA scares the crap out of employers, colleges, even lowly attys like me).

Anyway, I work knee deep in this stuff.

I also lost a buddy to a similar (though less efficient) psychopath. If you have the chance, google Wendell Williamson. He killed a friend of mine, Kevin Reichardt, back in 1995 along with another man just off the campus of UNC (I walked under some of the bullets as I walked back to my home, 1 block from shooting, didn't know it wasn't a car until one bullet smashed a tree above me). He now gets unsupervised excursions from his mental hospital and even made the news for voting last month. **** that *****


As I said, on to see Santa. Hard to be merry
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/14/2012 7:05 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


Taubag sorry to hear what happenned to you and your buddy, sorry man, that is sad.  Life altering, sobering, humbling, ya get a new outlook real quick.  Perspective.  I'll message you my email and we can take it there.  What you do is good, might save lives.  I think we need more of that and keeping weapons from mentally ill people.  Something has to give.

Hope Santa perked you and the little lady up.  I know he made your daughter's day. 

TauBag94 wrote: Hugged mine and on way to mall (yeah, another place that gets crazy folks to shoot) for a Santa visit.

Another time and place will be happy to have indepth discussion on this topic. I actually represent 1/2 of my county's Involuntary Commitments (judicial ordered hospital treatment) and have to give seminars 4 or 5 times a year to groups on local LEOs for their CIT certifications.

The Cho stuff back at VaTch was big horror, this is way, way worse. Willing to bet dollars to donuts this Lanza **** had a documented history of mental health distress, whether it got reported to the civil authorities, though is a whole different matter (HIPPA scares the crap out of employers, colleges, even lowly attys like me).

Anyway, I work knee deep in this stuff.

I also lost a buddy to a similar (though less efficient) psychopath. If you have the chance, google Wendell Williamson. He killed a friend of mine, Kevin Reichardt, back in 1995 along with another man just off the campus of UNC (I walked under some of the bullets as I walked back to my home, 1 block from shooting, didn't know it wasn't a car until one bullet smashed a tree above me). He now gets unsupervised excursions from his mental hospital and even made the news for voting last month. **** that *****


As I said, on to see Santa. Hard to be merry
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/14/2012 7:14 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


Back from mall and santa, not a great place to go to feel better about humanity!!!


Anyway, didn't mean to go too aggro, especially given my pld man rant of yesterday.

That said, this does hit home for me on many levels and I just don't see an answer. Might as well be a tornado or tsunami or whatever, we ain't fixing it, ain't stopping it, ain't even predicting it.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/14/2012 8:14 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


This is so sad. I feel so terrible for everyone involved.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/14/2012 10:51 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


Surprised that not more people have turned this into a political opportunity to ***** about guns.

Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/15/2012 7:01 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


Don't worry.  They will.  The trouble is, a sociopath/lunatic could not care less about laws.
wolfpack87 wrote: Surprised that not more people have turned this into a political opportunity to ***** about guns.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/16/2012 3:13 PM

Re: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 




http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother




This article is an amazing window into what I see all too regularly
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/16/2012 3:21 PM

Re: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


That was a huge twitter hit this morning. Extremely powerful. I don't envy you at all there TB. This whole thing is so, so ugly. 


TauBag94 wrote:

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother




This article is an amazing window into what I see all too regularly
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/16/2012 7:01 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


They did......s. Obrien was one of the first I heard. 
Theshadowman wrote: Don't worry.  They will.  The trouble is, a sociopath/lunatic could not care less about laws.
wolfpack87 wrote: Surprised that not more people have turned this into a political opportunity to ***** about guns.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/17/2012 6:12 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


I have tried to stay off this subject. I work in LE and enjoy guns so I'm pretty biased towards all this stuff.

But concerning this instance, I am blaming a failure in parenting. A mentally ill child/individual, no matter what the ailment has no business being taught how to shoot guns, let along become proficient at it like Adam reportedly was. They don't have the mind set to understand their actions and what power guns possess. Hell, a lot of them may not understand the value of life and what death really means. So the fact his mother allowed him to become, in essence, a gun nut is a massive failure in parenting.

And to go on the psychological side of things (which I have no formal education in just what I see) since he shot up her class, it really looks like a jealously thing. Whether it was true or not, on the surface it looks as if he felt mom cared more for the kids than him. And if the reports coming out are true about how his brother and father really didn't talk about him and introduce him to anyone, it very well could be true.


Just an unbelievably sad situation all the way around.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/22/2012 1:41 AM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


OK after hearing the nra's gun sales pitch today, I have to say that while people kill and mass murderers are mentally ill, we have too many weapons in the usa.  No one needs a semi auto gun and definitely not an automatic weapon.  Armed cops in every school?  What about malls, theaters, bars, sidewalks, streets?  It's the video games, movies, media's fault that we have all this violence.  Ummmm last I checked those video games and flicks are all over the world, but we lead it by far in murders.  That was a bunch of plain BS. 

In this city at least one person is shot per day, usually more, usually with a handgun.  I believe all auto and semi auto weapons are for law enforcement and the military, no one else needs them.  Hand guns kill far more and there is no need for those either, except to kill.  Keep your hunting weapons, target and skeet shooting guns no problem there, and yes we have a right to arm and protect ourselves, but totally outlaw all the rest, if you have one it needs to be smelted.  Put more guns in people's hands?  omg, ya the wild wild west.  No thanks, this country needs major changes it is out of control, let's give everyone a damn ak47, dragunov and a 44 magnum to take to dinner, shopping and church, soccer, talk about mentally ill..........We have a lot of mentally ill people here and we sure don't need more weapons in their hands.  just imho.

Last edited 12/22/2012 2:08 AM by cincykid

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/22/2012 12:08 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


Kid, I can understand what you are saying, but think about what you are saying and the consequences involved. If only LE and military have them, that is exactly what the founding fathers wanted to avoid. Is our gun obsession out of control? Perhaps, but my interpretation of the second amendment boils down to if the military and police have access to it, so should Joe Schmoe citizen.

Most hunting weapons and handguns are semi auto today. Banning all semi autos would be an impossibility.

I never bought into the video game thing, but I'm beginning to come around...and yes this revelation came before the NRA's statement. I just don't have any other explanation of the lack of respect for human life that is rampant. Read into our gun death stats a little more. At first it seems high, but in reality half are suicides, not homicides. Suicide is sad, yes, but I really have a hard time feeling pity for those that commit the ultimate sin. And most likely, if they don't use the gun, they are going to find some other tool to use. Taking guns out of their hands won't help, giving them access to proper treatment would be infinitely more effective.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/22/2012 2:00 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


Ya, I conceed most guns are semi auto now, thought about that after posting it.  Heck my 1st gun in the 60's was a winchester .22 pump rifle that ya could pump and fire semi auto holding the trigger down.  I was in ohhh 7th grade but times are different now.  I agree we have a right to be armed, heck some people live around bears and all sorts of wildlife that can seriously harm people, livestock and property.  They have a right to defend against that and the criminals too.  But I can't say the answer to these murders is everyone good packing heat.  OK I can go for melting down all hand guns from civilians then.  Fully Automatics too, all of them.  But I know it'll never happen. 

I agree mental health is the primary issue, but if we take away hand guns, automatic stuff then I like our chances of reducing the number of shootings and it'll improve the ability to take the perps out faster with less bloodshed, I hope.  Lack of respect for life is a serious issue in our modern society.  Rather take on a perp with a knife than a 357.

I dunno man, no clearcut answer here.  But we have to do something.  I recall it being said the Looney Tunes cartoons were leading to violence, roadrunner, foghorn leghorn, good Lord gimme a break.  My generation is lame compared to the current generation.  I will agree that the amount of violence people are exposed to via games, tv, movies can and does desensitize them to violence and killing. 

We could not do a thing vs the military if there really was a reason to go all rebel and revolt.  One abrams tank and a warthog would take care o business, or a cruise missle hell.  An old M1 pop gun would not do a thing but get ya killed imo.

BTW, while I currently have no weapons my dad and bro have M1 carbine and the chinese knockoff of the ak 47....sks? shotguns, etc.  But they are sane and have them for fun, protection and dad used one in 82nd airborne during korea.  Also shot skeet, loaded the clay pigeons and let em fly.  Was fun.  Normal people are not the problems here, it's the wackooooos.  I watch military channel all the time, I don't want to go.....you know.

Last edited 12/22/2012 2:08 PM by cincykid

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/23/2012 2:56 PM

Re: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


There were four mass killing attempts recently. Only one made the news because it helped the agreed upon media narrative.

  1. Oregon. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter confronted by permit holder. Shooter commits suicide. Only a few casualties.
  2. Texas. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter killed immediately by off duty cop. Only a few casualties.
  3. Connecticut. GUN FREE ZONE. Shooters kills until the police arrive. Suicide. 26 dead.
  4. China. GUN FREE COUNTRY. A guy with a KNIFE stabs 22 children.

And here is the nail in the coffin for Gun Free Zones. Over the last fifty years, with only one single exception (Gabby Giffords), every single mass shooting event with more than four casualties has taken place in a place where guns were supposedly not allowed.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-op inion-on-gun-control/ 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/23/2012 11:36 PM

Re: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


m

In Canada, civilians are not allowed to possess automatic firearms, except those registered before 197850, handguns with a barrel of 105mm or less in length, and specifically modified handguns, rifles or shotguns51

Regulation of Automatic Assault Weapons

In Canada, private possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited, except those registered before 197850 51

Regulation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons

In Canada, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is prohibited with only narrow exemptions52 50 51

Regulation of Handguns

In Canada, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted, with an authorization to carry50 51 53 54


ChartIn Canada, annual firearm homicides total

2009: 17310
2008: 20013 10
2007: 188
2006: 190
2005: 223
2004: 173
2003: 161
2002: 152
2001: 171
2000: 184
1999: 165
1998: 151
1997: 18610
1996: 207
1995: 168
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/24/2012 12:02 AM

Re: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


Homicides down after tougher gun laws adopted abroad

LA TIMES

                                           

By Carol J. Williams

December 19, 2012, 2:00 a.m.

Twelve days after the worst mass murder in Australian history, when 35 people were shot to death at Tasmania state’s Port Arthur tourist mecca in  1996, the government issued sweeping reforms of the country’s gun laws. There hasn’t been a mass shooting since, and suicides, deaths by firearms and robberies at gunpoint have plummeted.

The results of toughened gun rules in Britain after the massacre in the Scottish town of Dunblane that same year weren’t so immediate or impressive. Gun crimes continued to rise until 2003, and despite a steady downturn since then, a dozen people were killed two years ago in Cumbria by a man using legally registered weapons.

Mass murders by gun-wielding maniacs aren’t unique to the United States, although crime statistics show the tragedies to be far more prevalent in a nation that gained its independence by musket and proudly brandishes a constitutional guarantee of a right to bear arms. As the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence attests on its website, in a single year guns killed 17 in Finland, 35 in Australia, 39 in Britain, 60 in Spain, 194 in Germany, 200 in Canada and 9,484 in the United States.

“We are the only developed nation in the world that allows people such easy access to even the most dangerous weapons,” said Adam Winkler, a UCLA law professor and author of "Gunfight:  The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America."

  “There are other countries where you can own an assault rifle, such as Switzerland, but they impose strict laws on who can have them and when they can carry them.”

Even idyllic Switzerland hasn’t been immune from mass-casualty gun violence. In 2001, a disgruntled public official in the northern city of Zug killed 14 people at the regional parliament before taking his own life.  Swiss voters last year defeated a referendum that would have required all weapons registered to members of its citizen militia to be secured in military depots.

Most foreign countries that have endured gun violence have reacted with tighter restrictions on which weapons can be privately owned, who can obtain them, how they can be licensed and stored and what penalties are imposed on  violators. But a review of mass killings abroad over the last two decades reveals a contradictory picture of the effectiveness of strict controls in an age of Internet-based arms trading and global criminal networks.

Norway, the scene last year of the deadliest modern massacre by a single gunman, has some of the toughest restrictions on gun ownership in the developed world. Yet Anders Behring Breivik managed to obtain an assault rifle, a high-powered handgun and chemicals used to make a diversionary explosion at the start of his killing rampage that left 77 dead. In his rambling manifesto posted online on the day of his attacks, he boasted that “Ebay is your friend.”

In Germany, another country with strict gun control laws, legislators reacted to a 2002 shooting at a high school in Erfurt with stiffer penalties for negligent storage of firearms after the 19-year-old gunman used a legally registered Glock to kill 16 before taking his own life.  Seven years later, when another troubled teen  targeted a school in Winnenden, his father was prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter and convicted last year for failing to secure the legally registered 9-millimeter Beretta his son used to kill 16, including himself.

Finland, which trails only the United States, Yemen and Switzerland in per-capita gun ownership, according to the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey,  debated tightening gun laws after two school shootings in 2008. Lawmakers concluded two years ago that further legal action was unnecessary.

Still, the consensus among public safety experts is that fewer guns in private hands equates to fewer firearms deaths and gunpoint crimes.

University of Brighton criminology professor Peter Squires attributes the rise in shooting deaths in Britain in the late 1990s to corresponding growth in gang and organized crime activity, a phenomenon that peaked in the early part of the last decade and has since declined year to year.

“There is no act of Parliament, no act of Congress, that can guarantee there'll never be a massacre,’’ former British Home Secretary Jack Straw, who introduced the ban on gun ownership after the Dunblane killings, commented to British journalists after the eerily similar Newtown, Conn., rampage.

‘‘However,” Straw concluded, “the more you tighten the law, the more you reduce the risk.”

Former Australian Prime Minister John Howard, a conservative who led the bipartisan reforms on banning weapons and the buyback of more than 650,000 guns after the Port Arthur massacre, was visiting the United States this summer when a gunman shot and killed 12 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.

Howard argued in a commentary for the Age newspaper in Melbourne that Australia was correct to ban weapons and that the United States would be wise to do the same.

Homicides involving firearms dropped by 59% in the decade following Australia’s gun law reforms, Harvard University researchers reported last year in an analysis of the Australian statistics.

“In the 18 years prior to the 1996 Australian laws, there were 13 gun massacres (four or more fatalities) in Australia, resulting in 102 deaths,” Howard noted. “There have been none in that category since the Port Arthur laws.”

We need to stop the coffins, not put nails in them man.  So guns are necessary and need to be carried cause criminals have them and kill with them?  We need weapons to defend vs the criminals with guns.......just eliminate the guns from the criminals in the first place.  I don't want to have to carry a weapon and play cop myself.  What happens when someone misses and kills an innocent person?  They going to prison for murder?  just imo

http://www.latimes.com/news/wo...,0,747421.story

Last edited 12/24/2012 12:30 AM by cincykid

Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/24/2012 10:04 AM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


I am fine with a ban on assault weapons, as we had before.

Fact is, though. it won't help much (as has been pointed out). The gun Lanza used wouldn't be banned under the previous assault rifle ban that expired, nor would it be banned under the proposed legislation by Sen Feinstein. There are over 900 exceptions to the ban, too, so plenty of assault rifles would still be available on the market.

Add those to the millions currently in circulation and I just don't see it as being effective -- but then again we have plenty of inneffective laws that need to be there just because it is the right thing to do.


Anyway, I think there are 2 conversations going on here. First, more specific to this incident, there is the "mass shooting" phenomenon that happens every so often. In terms of stopping these, I think that a focus on mental health tx, mandatory reporting, and hospital committment for identified persons is the only way to even start to fix the problem. As was noted by RV, these wackos kill with knives too. Folks might recall that Andy Murray (tennis star) was a kid in the scottish elementary school that had like 15 or 20 kids killed by a psycho with a knife. But in terms of these incidents, the use of assault rifles has been common and I don't have issue with even a largely symbolic change in the law as a respose. I just hope that folks won't say "problem solved" when congress passes the new assault weapons ban, b/c it won't be.




The other, broader topic, appears to be the reduction of gun violence. Most of the stats cited by Kid seem to point to this issue. I have to say that there is no doubt that if you have fewer guns you will have fewer instances of gun violence. Certainly can't be debate there.

But this is a much trickier subject, as many other topics can be reduced to a similar solution. The faster you drive, more likely to die if you wreck; hence, no driving over 35mph anywhere, anytime. The more you smoke cigs or cigars or wacky baccy, the sooner you die and cost the rest of us a lot of $$ in health care; hence, no more smoking of anything. You get the point. Bloomberg has already banned large sodas in NYC, and San Francisco you can buy a joint, get accosted by naked freaks in a park, but you can't buy a happy meal or a dog at a pet shop.

I would like to see better regulation and enforcement of all gun laws that would reduce the number of guns in the hands of criminals, but this also has serious unintended consequences (the incarceration rate of black males would go up, something that should be impossible given our current rates and marijuana prohibition). The reality of this issue is that it ain't going away anytime soon, and any solution will come with a host of all new problems...
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/24/2012 10:33 AM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


Taubag hit the nail on the head, 2 issues really.  Mass murders and the daily, hourly shootings.  Mass wackoos I think we address with mental health improvements, involuntary committments, notifications.  The gun violence drops by getting rid of their guns, not arming Good citizens imo.  There is no magic wand solution it will take many things in combo with one another and they'll need tweaking as time goes on, we need to start somewhere though and sooner than later.  I dont wanna take all guns away just guns that are for imo nothing but killing another person.  I'd legalize pot too and tax it like booze, that should reduce gun violence by removing the gangs as dealers of pot.  Less territory and rip off wars, which seems to be a lot of the reasons behind shootings here in cincy.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/24/2012 11:45 AM

Re: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 



cincykid wrote:

Homicides down after tougher gun laws adopted abroad

LA TIMES

                                           

By Carol J. Williams

December 19, 2012, 2:00 a.m.

Twelve days after the worst mass murder in Australian history, when 35 people were shot to death at Tasmania state’s Port Arthur tourist mecca in  1996, the government issued sweeping reforms of the country’s gun laws. There hasn’t been a mass shooting since, and suicides, deaths by firearms and robberies at gunpoint have plummeted.

The results of toughened gun rules in Britain after the massacre in the Scottish town of Dunblane that same year weren’t so immediate or impressive. Gun crimes continued to rise until 2003, and despite a steady downturn since then, a dozen people were killed two years ago in Cumbria by a man using legally registered weapons.


http://www.latimes.com/news/wo...,0,747421.story

LA Times? Wouldn't trust that rag to get the ball game scores correct. BTAIM:

Australia had a mass shooting and instituted a massive gun ban and confiscation (a program which would not work here, which I’ll get to, but let’s run with it anyway.). As was pointed out to me on Facebook, they haven’t had any mass shootings since. However, they fail to realize that they didn’t really have any mass shootings before either. You need to keep in mind that mass shooting are horrific headline grabbing statistical anomalies. You are far more likely to get your head caved in by a local thug while he’s trying to steal your wallet, and that probably won’t even make the evening news.

And violent crime is up in Australia. A cursory Google search will show articles about the increase in violent crime and theft, but then other articles pooh-pooing these stats as being insignificant and totally not related to the guns.


So then we’ve got England, where they reacted swiftly after a mass shooting, banned and confiscated guns, and their violent crime has since skyrocketed. Their stats are far worse than Australia, and they are now one of the more dangerous countries to live in the EU. Once again, cursory Google search will show articles with the stats, and other articles saying that those rises like totally have nothing to do with regular folks no longer being able to defend themselves… Sensing a trend yet?

And then we’ve got South Africa, which instituted some really hard core gun bans and some extremely strict controls, and their crime is now so high that it is basically either no longer tracked or simply not countable. But obviously, the totally unbiased news says that has absolutely nothing to do with people no longer being able to legally defend themselves.

Then you’ve got countries like Norway, with extremely strict gun control. Their gun control laws are simply incomprehensible to half of Americans. Not only that, they are an ethnically and socially homogenous, tiny population, well off country, without our gang violence or drug problems. Their gun control laws are draconian by our standards. They make Chicago look like Boise. Surely that level of gun control will stop school shootings! Except of course for 2011 when a maniac killed 77 and injured 242 people, a body count which is absurdly high compared to anything which has happened America.

Because once again, repeat it with me, criminals simply do not give a crap if they are not complying with gun laws.

That mass killer used a gun and homemade explosives. Make guns harder to get, and explosives become the weapon of choice. Please do keep in mind that the largest and most advanced military coalition in human history was basically stymied for a decade by a small group using high school level chemistry and the Afghani equivalent to Radio Shack.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-op inion-on-gun-control/
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/24/2012 12:05 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 



cincykid wrote: ...  I dont wanna take all guns away just guns that are for imo nothing but killing another person...
and which guns would that be pray tell? Only ones that can't fire would be that answer, and even those could be used as a club. You're living in a fantasy world friend. Over the last fifty years, with only one single exception (Representative Gabby Gifford,s shooting), every single mass shooting event with more than four casualties has taken place in a place where guns were supposedly not allowed.

Predators like soft targets. Tell you what, I dare you to put a sign in your front yard that says this house contains no guns.

Kennesaw Georgia:
But this city, half an hour’s drive north of Atlanta, is unique: it is the only place in America where it is compulsory to own a gun. In 1982, Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed an ordinance requiring households to own at least one firearm with ammunition. The law states that its purpose is to “protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants”. Kennesaw’s ordinance was a heartfelt assertion of second amendment gun rights, a principled and legislative rebuttal to a law passed earlier that year in Morton Grove, ­Illinois, banning guns within the city limits.

But almost 30 years after the law was passed, it is still in place and still popular, not least because Kennesaw’s crime rate has remained disproportionately low, even as the town’s population swelled from 5,000 in 1982 to almost 35,000 now. According to the latest FBI statistics, Kennesaw recorded 31 violent crimes – mainly robberies and aggravated assaults – during 2008. In other similar-sized local towns the figures were much higher – 127 in Dalton and 188 in Hinesville. For property crimes – largely burglaries and thefts – Kennesaw recorded 555 while Dalton had 1,124 and Hinesville 1,802.

 

“Firearms are involved in less than 2 per cent of the crime around here,” confirms. Craig Graydon, a police lieutenant who has served in Kennesaw for 24 years. “If nothing else, [the firearms law] draws a lot of attention to the importance of crime prevention.” Though it will give liberals heartburn, Kennesaw’s gun policy works.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/5c1b6a72-c5eb-11df-b53e- 00144feab49a.html#axzz2FzOIlw7R

While Morton Grove’s per capita crime rate took a dramatic jump, deviating substantially from regional and national averages, right after passage of their gun ban, Kennesaw’s crime rate did the opposite in an even more dramatic way.  After Kennesaw’s gun law was enacted crime dropped dramatically – much faster than federal, state, or local trends – and leveled out well below national averages.  In spite of a population increase from 5000 to almost 30,000 during the same period, Kennesaw’s crime rates remain significantly lower than national or area averages.  And the people of Kennesaw didn’t have to use their mandated firearms to affect this dramatic change.  The simple knowledge on the part of criminals that if they worked in Kennesaw they were choosing to work with an armed prospective victim pool was enough to convince them not to pursue their chosen professions there.

After the enactment of the firearms mandate in 1982, it took 15 years before there was a murder committed with a firearm in the town.  As I recall, it was the result of two visitors who got into an argument in their motel room.  One was insisting that a .25 automatic could not penetrate thick chest muscles like his and the other fellow decided to settle the argument and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were both idiots.

After 25 years, Kennesaw and Morton Grove stand out as proof positive that the only gun control laws with any hope of reducing crime are laws which empower the law-abiding people rather than disarming them.  But remember how much news coverage was given to this story last March?  Expect more of that deafening silence for the 26th anniversary next March.

http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option= com_content&task=view&id=285&Itemid=37
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/24/2012 1:31 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 


rv, we have dogs, security system.  On which guns, come on man, who needs an assault weapon to hunt deer? Buckshot for birds, or a bow even. I mean really?  One shot, maybe a 2nd is all ya need to kill an animal.  You hunt with a 45 or a 357?  Nope.  What are they for then? To kill someone, or shoot at a target.  You can use a 30-30 or something, a bb gun, for target practice.  Click the brady site and watch the counter for shootings.  Scary isn't it?  I live in the real world, dept supplied the blood needed for those shot for 34 years.  Know of far tooo many shootings.  We agree to disagree sir. I am for taking away the mechanisms used to perform the act of shooting, not add to it.  Of course punks look for soft targets and places where there are not likely to be guns.  But if my wife and kids have to pack heat to go to a movie something is seriously wrong here, is this Iraq?  I mean really. If those killers did not have the weapons they couldn't kill and we don't need to pack. 

We are the most insane, violent and armed country in the 1st world group imo and running around armed is not a way of life I am into one bit.  That is nuts imo.  A big part of the problem seems to me that we let criminals out of jail early if they ever go in the first place. A 2 time burglary felon, 2 time criminal dmg, b&e.......out in less than a month after convicted for the 2 felonies.  Unreal.  Nowhere to put them we have so many.  Build more prisons and keep the sob's there, that will help. 

You want to pick and choose what media you believe, fine.  Least we can talk mano y mano on it though.  I see today 2 firefighters killed by a loon who shoots them trying to fight a fire.  You want them armed too?  Cover me while i climb the ladder?  sad.  I want to get the weapons out of criminals hands, and keep them in prison where they belong...........a long time.  If canada was warmer, my family would be there.

Last edited 12/24/2012 3:05 PM by cincykid

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/25/2012 12:11 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 



cincykid wrote: rv, we have dogs, security system.  On which guns, come on man, who needs an assault weapon to hunt deer? Buckshot for birds, or a bow even. I mean really?  One shot, maybe a 2nd is all ya need to kill an animal.  You hunt with a 45 or a 357?  Nope.  What are they for then? To kill someone, or shoot at a target.  You can use a 30-30 or something, a bb gun, for target practice.  Click the brady site and watch the counter for shootings.  Scary isn't it?  I live in the real world, dept supplied the blood needed for those shot for 34 years.  Know of far tooo many shootings.  We agree to disagree sir. I am for taking away the mechanisms used to perform the act of shooting, not add to it.  Of course punks look for soft targets and places where there are not likely to be guns.  But if my wife and kids have to pack heat to go to a movie something is seriously wrong here, is this Iraq?  I mean really. If those killers did not have the weapons they couldn't kill and we don't need to pack. 

We are the most insane, violent and armed country in the 1st world group imo and running around armed is not a way of life I am into one bit.  That is nuts imo.  A big part of the problem seems to me that we let criminals out of jail early if they ever go in the first place. A 2 time burglary felon, 2 time criminal dmg, b&e.......out in less than a month after convicted for the 2 felonies.  Unreal.  Nowhere to put them we have so many.  Build more prisons and keep the sob's there, that will help. 

You want to pick and choose what media you believe, fine.  Least we can talk mano y mano on it though.  I see today 2 firefighters killed by a loon who shoots them trying to fight a fire.  You want them armed too?  Cover me while i climb the ladder?  sad.  I want to get the weapons out of criminals hands, and keep them in prison where they belong...........a long time.  If canada was warmer, my family would be there.
Why do people attempt to make laws to disarm potential victims and create safe working conditions for criminals? This is an indefensible point of view.

You seem to take the position that the second amendment pertains only to hunting. It has nothing to do with hunting but in fact is a confirmation of the fact that individuals have the right to self-protection, self-defense if you prefer.


You say you don't want to have to arm yourself but you are missing the point entirely. The notion that you or anyone else in a particular place 'may' be carrying a weapon is a deterrent to those that would prey on you or your family, therefore all are better protected. The fact is you don't have to arm yourself personally but by making 'gun free zones' we are saying to those that are so inclined to harm others "please come here and shoot all the people you want, no one will be here that can stop you, at least for several minutes". 

BTW, just what is an "assault weapon"? Is it a specific weapon or one that just looks scary? If someone were to hit you with a bat, would that then be an "assault weapon"? We had an "assault weapon" ban for more than a decade. If affected nothing but it made folks like you "feel better".

I don't pick and choose media, I prefer to deal in facts and not emotions. Just how do you propose to get the guns out of criminals hands? Criminal - ie. crime = an action or an instance of negligence that is deemed injurious to the public welfare or morals or to the interests of the state and that is legally prohibited. IOW, law breakers. Do you think they will obey any laws you might make? We have thousands of laws and making another one pertaining to 'gun control' won't do a thing except make you and everyone else less safe.

The right thing to do, the sensible thing to do is attempt to remedy the root causes. When someone is killed by a drunk driver do we then ban all cars? Do we ban all people from owning cars? No, we attempt to control the actions that lead to drunk driving. 

Liberal actions such as breaking down of the family unit, attacking religion and letting criminals and the insane roam our streets are the main culprits in these mass shootings.

Last edited 12/25/2012 12:19 PM by IamRV

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/25/2012 2:37 PM

RE: School shooting in Connecticut. God help everyone involved, 



IamRV wrote:
cincykid wrote: rv, we have dogs, security system.  On which guns, come on man, who needs an assault weapon to hunt deer? Buckshot for birds, or a bow even. I mean really?  One shot, maybe a 2nd is all ya need to kill an animal.  You hunt with a 45 or a 357?  Nope.  What are they for then? To kill someone, or shoot at a target.  You can use a 30-30 or something, a bb gun, for target practice.  Click the brady site and watch the counter for shootings.  Scary isn't it?  I live in the real world, dept supplied the blood needed for those shot for 34 years.  Know of far tooo many shootings.  We agree to disagree sir. I am for taking away the mechanisms used to perform the act of shooting, not add to it.  Of course punks look for soft targets and places where there are not likely to be guns.  But if my wife and kids have to pack heat to go to a movie something is seriously wrong here, is this Iraq?  I mean really. If those killers did not have the weapons they couldn't kill and we don't need to pack. 

We are the most insane, violent and armed country in the 1st world group imo and running around armed is not a way of life I am into one bit.  That is nuts imo.  A big part of the problem seems to me that we let criminals out of jail early if they ever go in the first place. A 2 time burglary felon, 2 time criminal dmg, b&e.......out in less than a month after convicted for the 2 felonies.  Unreal.  Nowhere to put them we have so many.  Build more prisons and keep the sob's there, that will help. 

You want to pick and choose what media you believe, fine.  Least we can talk mano y mano on it though.  I see today 2 firefighters killed by a loon who shoots them trying to fight a fire.  You want them armed too?  Cover me while i climb the ladder?  sad.  I want to get the weapons out of criminals hands, and keep them in prison where they belong...........a long time.  If canada was warmer, my family would be there.
Why do people attempt to make laws to disarm potential victims and create safe working conditions for criminals? This is an indefensible point of view.

You seem to take the position that the second amendment pertains only to hunting. It has nothing to do with hunting but in fact is a confirmation of the fact that individuals have the right to self-protection, self-defense if you prefer.


No I don't check my posts.  I said we have a right to arm ourselves dude,  Reread please.  Just don't need military type / assault weapons or 100 round clips.

You say you don't want to have to arm yourself but you are missing the point entirely. The notion that you or anyone else in a particular place 'may' be carrying a weapon is a deterrent to those that would prey on you or your family, therefore all are better protected. The fact is you don't have to arm yourself personally but by making 'gun free zones' we are saying to those that are so inclined to harm others "please come here and shoot all the people you want, no one will be here that can stop you, at least for several minutes". 

Concealed carry is a detterent ok, but that does not address the real problem.  Criminals with weapons.  Get the guns out of their hands, better yet get the criminals in prison.  Addressn the real issue not detering or shooting the perp after the fact he has an ak, 357, 1000000 rounds.

BTW, just what is an "assault weapon"? Is it a specific weapon or one that just looks scary? If someone were to hit you with a bat, would that then be an "assault weapon"? We had an "assault weapon" ban for more than a decade. If affected nothing but it made folks like you "feel better".

Ahhh come on man.  The ban will return, bet me.  ...an AR, ak, m16, come on now.

I don't pick and choose media, I prefer to deal in facts and not emotions. Just how do you propose to get the guns out of criminals hands? Criminal - ie. crime = an action or an instance of negligence that is deemed injurious to the public welfare or morals or to the interests of the state and that is legally prohibited. IOW, law breakers. Do you think they will obey any laws you might make? We have thousands of laws and making another one pertaining to 'gun control' won't do a thing except make you and everyone else less safe.

Enforce the laws, some states choose not to do such.  If you have one registerted then you have to sell it to the govt to make railroad tracks.  If you don't you go to prison.  It will if there are less weapons and in particular assault weapons, and imo hand guns.

The right thing to do, the sensible thing to do is attempt to remedy the root causes. When someone is killed by a drunk driver do we then ban all cars? Do we ban all people from owning cars? No, we attempt to control the actions that lead to drunk driving. 

That's over the top.  We all require transport.  But ya address the real issue tooo many weapons in the usa, criminals let out of jail early if ever put in, and mental health issues.  Involuntary committments.  People with military style weapons that have no utility other than killing someone.

Liberal actions such as breaking down of the family unit, attacking religion and letting criminals and the insane roam our streets are the main culprits in these mass
shootings.

It is not about religion, the famuily unit-damn right it is, starts there a lot......, I have said the criminals are not handled properly, and we need better mental health options. 

If this country spent more time and effort on education and doing something good for this world instead of getting caught up in playing with guns and having weapons for the coming revolution, lol, or to take to the movies for defense, we'd have solved the energy problems, cancer, hunger, and trashed the weapons and the people using them to kill our innocent citizens.  Instead some choose to express anger about their rights to have any weapon they choose and ignore the real issues.  Red Dawn ain;t happenning ok?  We are not living in the wild wild west.


So how did the loon who killed the firemen get the weapons and how did he get out of prison after he killed his grandma?   And didn't someone notice the warning signs he needed help?  This country is far tooooo insane and loaded with weapons, how hard is it to see that is a recipe for ......just what is happenning far to regularly. 

Last edited 12/25/2012 2:42 PM by cincykid

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/25/2012 3:35 PM

Re: School shooting Conn. Moved to new OT forum under pic forum. 


More Than 70 Mass Shootings Since Tucson

We lose too many Americans to gun violence, day in and day out.

There have been more than 70 mass shootings since the January 8, 2011, massacre in Tucson, Arizona.

We lose on average 32 people a day to gun murders in the U.S.

The homicide rate in the U.S. is 6.9 times higher than 22 other high-income, high population countries, combined.

» Click here for a list of mass shootings since 2005
» Click here for a list of school shootings since 1997
» Click here to see a fact sheet on daily and yearly gun violence

Click above to download the poster.

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/25/2012 3:38 PM

RE: School shooting Conn. Moved to new OT forum under pic forum. 


Enough, I quit.
Reply | Quote