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Re: Dusty Baker extended til 2014

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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:52 PM

Re: Dusty Baker extended til 2014 


Good points.  The change emphasis on the Farm System did start under DanO.


 

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Posted: 10/19/2012 7:39 PM

Re: Dusty Baker extended til 2014 


Some of you are still butt hurt, I get it.

I also understand there are several of you who will NEVER give credit where it is due. Dusty could win a World Series and you would shout from the roof tops it was in spite of the man.

I have played college baseball, managed hundreds of people in the automotive industry as a tier one supplier, both on and off campus.

I own and run my own business. At the end of the day it is not about style. It is about substance and RESULTS matter. People have different ways of achieving results. What works for one may not work for another. The bottom line is the bottom line. You are either productive and get it done or you don't.

Dusty and Price do not get the credit they have earned based on their track record.

Price has done a masterful job bringing Chapman, Cueto and Bailey along and has had a significant positive impact on Latos. We had the best pitching in baseball and had our ENTIRE back end of the bullpen not make it out of spring training!!!!

Dust did a great job getting this club to win the central. We have no lead off hitter and lost perhaps the best player in all of baseball for several months.

You can say what you want but at the end of the day Dusty WINS where ever he is at, PERIOD.

A large number of you have been calling for the Reds to move Bailey for several years calling him a bust.

Get over yourselves. Dusty has done a nice job developing this young club and we are poised to compete for titles for years to come.

The last two GM's, Walt and Bob should be commended. They have invested in the infrastructure and resources needed for a small market to compete and we are right there knocking on the door and the future looks very bright!

I tip my cap to all involved!
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Posted: 10/19/2012 10:33 PM

Re: Dusty Baker extended til 2014 



gsnuts wrote: Some of you are still butt hurt, I get it.

I also understand there are several of you who will NEVER give credit where it is due. Dusty could win a World Series and you would shout from the roof tops it was in spite of the man.

Dusty and Price do not get the credit they have earned based on their track record.

Price has done a masterful job bringing Chapman, Cueto and Bailey along and has had a significant positive impact on Latos. We had the best pitching in baseball and had our ENTIRE back end of the bullpen not make it out of spring training!!!!

Dust did a great job getting this club to win the central. We have no lead off hitter and lost perhaps the best player in all of baseball for several months.

You can say what you want but at the end of the day Dusty WINS where ever he is at, PERIOD.

A large number of you have been calling for the Reds to move Bailey for several years calling him a bust.

Get over yourselves. Dusty has done a nice job developing this young club and we are poised to compete for titles for years to come.

The last two GM's, Walt and Bob should be commended. They have invested in the infrastructure and resources needed for a small market to compete and we are right there knocking on the door and the future looks very bright!

I tip my cap to all involved!
Especially this season, I'm not sure anyone has really been critical of Price.  I think it's nearly unanimous that he has done a great job.  Jacoby, on the other hand, has taken plenty of flak, some of it justified and some not.

When it comes to Dusty Baker, let me start by saying I think re-signing him was the right move.  The players love and respect him and I believe continuity is great for a franchise.

Now, with that said, I don't think someone's managerial record alone makes them beyond reproach.  Does the criticism go too far sometimes?  Absolutely.  The manager is an easy target when things aren't going well.

On the other hand, we have a Major League manager who believes getting on base is not important.  For about 3/4 of this season, 2 of the lowest OBP in all of baseball were hitting 1 & 2 in the lineup.  At one point (I think he has since gotten better) he had no problem having pitchers having extremely high pitch counts start after start.  As a baseball man, I'm sure you can recognize that he's not exactly a "master strategist" when it comes to in-game management.  Are any of these things "fireable offenses"?  Probably not.  But, I don't think it's unreasonable for folks to ask the questions.

I guess my point is that while Dusty does some things very well as a manager, there are things he doesn't do well.  Just as I don't think it's fair for folks to ignore the good things Dusty brings to the team and only be critical, I don't think it's right to dismiss those weaknesses (and those who point them out) simply because he has a winning career record
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Posted: 10/20/2012 12:09 PM

Re: Dusty Baker extended til 2014 



OhioRaiderNation wrote:
gsnuts wrote: Some of you are still butt hurt, I get it.

I also understand there are several of you who will NEVER give credit where it is due. Dusty could win a World Series and you would shout from the roof tops it was in spite of the man.

Dusty and Price do not get the credit they have earned based on their track record.

Price has done a masterful job bringing Chapman, Cueto and Bailey along and has had a significant positive impact on Latos. We had the best pitching in baseball and had our ENTIRE back end of the bullpen not make it out of spring training!!!!

Dust did a great job getting this club to win the central. We have no lead off hitter and lost perhaps the best player in all of baseball for several months.

You can say what you want but at the end of the day Dusty WINS where ever he is at, PERIOD.

A large number of you have been calling for the Reds to move Bailey for several years calling him a bust.

Get over yourselves. Dusty has done a nice job developing this young club and we are poised to compete for titles for years to come.

The last two GM's, Walt and Bob should be commended. They have invested in the infrastructure and resources needed for a small market to compete and we are right there knocking on the door and the future looks very bright!

I tip my cap to all involved!
Especially this season, I'm not sure anyone has really been critical of Price.  I think it's nearly unanimous that he has done a great job.  Jacoby, on the other hand, has taken plenty of flak, some of it justified and some not.

When it comes to Dusty Baker, let me start by saying I think re-signing him was the right move.  The players love and respect him and I believe continuity is great for a franchise.

Now, with that said, I don't think someone's managerial record alone makes them beyond reproach.  Does the criticism go too far sometimes?  Absolutely.  The manager is an easy target when things aren't going well.

On the other hand, we have a Major League manager who believes getting on base is not important.  For about 3/4 of this season, 2 of the lowest OBP in all of baseball were hitting 1 & 2 in the lineup.  At one point (I think he has since gotten better) he had no problem having pitchers having extremely high pitch counts start after start.  As a baseball man, I'm sure you can recognize that he's not exactly a "master strategist" when it comes to in-game management.  Are any of these things "fireable offenses"?  Probably not.  But, I don't think it's unreasonable for folks to ask the questions.

I guess my point is that while Dusty does some things very well as a manager, there are things he doesn't do well.  Just as I don't think it's fair for folks to ignore the good things Dusty brings to the team and only be critical, I don't think it's right to dismiss those weaknesses (and those who point them out) simply because he has a winning career record
Ding, ding, ding - we have a winner!
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Posted: 11/21/2012 12:12 PM

Re: Dusty Baker extended til 2014 


Well I've put my share of anti-Dusty posts on this board, but I am not surprised.  When it all comes down to it, the most important thing is winning and he's done that more than any Reds manager in recent history.  No one since Pete Rose has lasted more than three seasons.  The 97 wins this season were the most since 1976.  It would have taken some pair of stones to let him walk.  I saw the first round playoff exit too, but 2012 had two more postseason wins than the previous sixteen years combined.  They didn't reach the goal, but made more progress toward it.  For whatever reason the franchis is in better shape than when he arrived.  Maybe Dusty isn't the main reason but at least he hasn't screwed up enough to totally sabotage the main reason's efforts.

I still think he lacks strategy in-game and filling out a lineup card.  I'm not so much down on the leadoff fiasco this season because he didn't have a lot of options.  Phillips was the best one for the job and lack of production from the rest of the lineup early in the season pulled him to cleanup.  He was moved back eventually after Ludwick came around.  Leadoff is important, but so is cleanup.  After watching this team win 97 games I'm thinking that leadoff isn't as important as I used to believe. The Reds had the worst leadoff OB% of anyone and there were other successful teams this season that weren't far above them on the list. 

I guess what's hard (or actually impossible) to quantify is the value of having the players' loyalty.  Baker is a "stand-by-your-man" manager for sure and he deserves their loyalty as much as anyone.  It can be dangerous at times if a skipper doesn't have his team's respect and loses control.  I thought that was happening at times in 2011.  Still, the 2011 Reds had some significant deficiencies and there probably weren't many managers who could have returned to postseason with them. 

Sure it would be better to have someone who could maintain relationships and not compromise in-game strategy, but who is out there to take his place?  You let him go and then you have to replace him.  There's no telling how his players would react and it is the players who win games.  "Foolproofing" it what can be done would help.  It's no secret why Hamilton was converted to center field before the Arizona Fall League, but he hasn't played a single game higher than the AA level and will probably begin 2013 at Louisville. 

As far as handling pitchers, in today's game it's generally a given that any manager is going to utilize a twelve man staff with five in the rotation and seven in the pen.  The general belief is that you don't want anyone working much more than 200 innings or taking more than 33 starts in regular season.  In order for the staff to work effectively they need the rotation to average around six innings per game to avoid overworking the pen.  The 2011 rotation couldn't do that early and the pen got burned out after an effective first half.  They got their overall inns/start up by leaving ineffective starters in the game too long in the latter part of the season after the pen was no longer effective.  A manager needs to let his starter go for seven, which normally won't take much more than 100 pitches, whenever possible.  There are going to be times when he burns up his pitch count early or is just ineffective, causing a need to lean extra on the pen. 

My big problem this season was he would often leave a starter out there when it was apparent he needed to call it a day.  Instead of saving his pen, the opponent would get a threat going and a reliever he was trying to save would come in before the end of the inning anyway.  You'd figure Price would have a pretty good idea on when it's time to turn the game over to the pen.  If so, maybe Baker will learn to listen to him more. 

The infrastructure is built and Baker has won with it.  The bar has been raised and the goal is obviously to play longer than the first round of the playoffs.  It would be a lot to ask the rotation to match this year's performance, but if moving Chapman in there is successful, who knows? It would probably help to get Stubbs out of the way before Hamilton is ready to take over, but the guys' stolen base accomplishments have brought more attention on him than any Reds minor leaguer in recent history so if/when he's ready maybe even Baker won't inhibit his advancement by staying loyal to a high K/low OB guy without much power.....well, maybe.  Other than CF, I expect that regulars in the other positions will be the appropriate players in 2013.  If Stubbs can cut down on his strikeout rate and get on base better, then God bless him.

Check out news from the Reds development teams by clicking "Cincinnati Home" beneath the CincyHardball log above. 

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Posted: 11/26/2012 7:59 PM

Re: Dusty Baker extended til 2014 


LexReds comes into the fray with his usual logic and reasoning.  For me, it comes down to these guys will play hard for Dusty.  Some other retread like Tracy might get the same effort out of them and make slightly better strategic decisions, or he might blow up all the chemistry and drive us into the ground.  The armchair managers jumping off the bandwagon over Dusty don't understand a thing about professional baseball.
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Posted: 1/4/2013 2:37 PM

Re: Dusty Baker extended til 2014 


The players love him, they play their butts off for him.  He handles the egos very well, heard no infighting rumors at all under him.  We won 97.  Ya he makes or doesn't make moves that are questionable sometimes (what managers don't) but he did a dang good job 2nd half last year.  I have no problemo with him.  Could be a heck of a lot worser.  Ya worser, my word.  lol  edit-  and from everything I have heard he is a genuine Good person on top of it all.  WJ and Big Bob ain't goofballs.

Last edited 1/4/2013 2:39 PM by cincykid

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