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Where do the Cubs go from here ?

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Posted: 10/4/2012 8:18 AM

Where do the Cubs go from here ? 


http://www.suntimes.com/sports...-red-flags.html


No big-market, big-revenue team in the majors has undergone an intentional youth-driven, multiyear rebuilding process in the free-agency era.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 11:01 AM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 


https://twitter.com/PWSullivan...881930645389312

Theo tells Vitters and Jackson they will start next year in AAA
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Posted: 10/4/2012 12:37 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



cubs2007 wrote: https://twitter.com/PWSullivan...881930645389312

Theo tells Vitters and Jackson they will start next year in AAA

100% the right move for both of them.  Let's see what the Cubs do at 3B and CF.  Do they go with internal options on the ML roster or acquire someone.  We'll see.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 12:41 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



doughboy981 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: https://twitter.com/PWSullivan...881930645389312

Theo tells Vitters and Jackson they will start next year in AAA

100% the right move for both of them.  Let's see what the Cubs do at 3B and CF.  Do they go with internal options on the ML roster or acquire someone.  We'll see.
There are no internal options so it will be either trade or free agency.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 12:45 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
doughboy981 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: https://twitter.com/PWSullivan...881930645389312

Theo tells Vitters and Jackson they will start next year in AAA

100% the right move for both of them.  Let's see what the Cubs do at 3B and CF.  Do they go with internal options on the ML roster or acquire someone.  We'll see.
There are no internal options so it will be either trade or free agency.
I'm not a big fan of Valbuena, but Dale liked him and he's more appealing than a lot of the FA options.  As far as CF, they could move DeJesus over if they're planning to keep him and get a RF instead.  None of us know exactly what they'll do, but hopefully it will be an interesting offseason.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 2:01 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



doughboy981 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
doughboy981 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: https://twitter.com/PWSullivan...881930645389312

Theo tells Vitters and Jackson they will start next year in AAA

100% the right move for both of them.  Let's see what the Cubs do at 3B and CF.  Do they go with internal options on the ML roster or acquire someone.  We'll see.
There are no internal options so it will be either trade or free agency.
I'm not a big fan of Valbuena, but Dale liked him and he's more appealing than a lot of the FA options.  As far as CF, they could move DeJesus over if they're planning to keep him and get a RF instead.  None of us know exactly what they'll do, but hopefully it will be an interesting offseason.
Valbuena is a bench player at best. He should not be considered a starter unless you want to make a run at 100 losses again.

You will need an OF and there are no internal options there. Both Sappelt & Campana are #4 or #5 OF's. DeJesus is not a strong defensive CF and is not a prototypical RF but can fill a need for 2013.

Every opening does not have to be filled through free agency. I would expect a trade to fill 3b.
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Posted: 10/5/2012 3:47 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 


From Suntimes -
Team president Theo Epstein promises no timelines or big free-agent fixes for getting this historically bad Cubs team turned around quickly, even as he acknowledges, “We’re accountable for what happens in the big leagues” during this ground-up rebuilding project.

He also offers no promises of ticket-price relief while fans paying the third-highest average price in the game ($46.30) wait for big-league results.

And indications from the team suggest the average will stay roughly the same in 2013.

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Posted: 10/5/2012 4:29 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



cubs2007 wrote:

From Suntimes -
Team president Theo Epstein promises no timelines or big free-agent fixes for getting this historically bad Cubs team turned around quickly, even as he acknowledges, “We’re accountable for what happens in the big leagues” during this ground-up rebuilding project.

He also offers no promises of ticket-price relief while fans paying the third-highest average price in the game ($46.30) wait for big-league results.

And indications from the team suggest the average will stay roughly the same in 2013.

Which tells you what? If he was in the market for a high priced FA, should he show his hand now?

Sounds like another wittenmyer rant about prices. Would anyone feel better about 100 losses if the avg price was $40.00? The fact is, there are thousands of tickets available every game for less than $20.00. So what difference does it make what the average ticket price is? Wittless gets in for free, so this is just another way to bash the Cubs, something he has made a career out of.
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Posted: 10/5/2012 4:42 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



absolutebadger wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:

From Suntimes -
Team president Theo Epstein promises no timelines or big free-agent fixes for getting this historically bad Cubs team turned around quickly, even as he acknowledges, “We’re accountable for what happens in the big leagues” during this ground-up rebuilding project.

He also offers no promises of ticket-price relief while fans paying the third-highest average price in the game ($46.30) wait for big-league results.

And indications from the team suggest the average will stay roughly the same in 2013.

Which tells you what? If he was in the market for a high priced FA, should he show his hand now?

Sounds like another wittenmyer rant about prices. Would anyone feel better about 100 losses if the avg price was $40.00? The fact is, there are thousands of tickets available every game for less than $20.00. So what difference does it make what the average ticket price is? Wittless gets in for free, so this is just another way to bash the Cubs, something he has made a career out of.
Do you purchase season tickets ? I had season tickets but would not pay top dollar for an inferior product. If you are not going to put a top product on the field you should not charge top dollar. But due to the high rate of out of town purchases they can get away with charging high prices for a poor product. Even with thousands of tickets available at low prices there is an increasing number of no shows. 

You can read between the lines of what Theo says but even the broadcasters, local & national writers radio & tv personalities have all agree that no big free agents will be pursued this off-season and you can expect more of the Dejesus/Maholm type signings.
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Posted: 10/5/2012 5:01 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
doughboy981 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
doughboy981 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: https://twitter.com/PWSullivan...881930645389312

Theo tells Vitters and Jackson they will start next year in AAA

100% the right move for both of them.  Let's see what the Cubs do at 3B and CF.  Do they go with internal options on the ML roster or acquire someone.  We'll see.
There are no internal options so it will be either trade or free agency.
I'm not a big fan of Valbuena, but Dale liked him and he's more appealing than a lot of the FA options.  As far as CF, they could move DeJesus over if they're planning to keep him and get a RF instead.  None of us know exactly what they'll do, but hopefully it will be an interesting offseason.
Valbuena is a bench player at best. He should not be considered a starter unless you want to make a run at 100 losses again.

You will need an OF and there are no internal options there. Both Sappelt & Campana are #4 or #5 OF's. DeJesus is not a strong defensive CF and is not a prototypical RF but can fill a need for 2013.

Every opening does not have to be filled through free agency. I would expect a trade to fill 3b.
There most assuredly are internal options. You just don't like them.

Valbuena at 3B, DeJesus in CF, LaHair/Sappelt/Campana fight for RF. Yes on days Campana plays, you can put DeJesus in RF.

Short of some big time acquisitions, this team is probably bad again in 2013. You trade DeJesus at the deadline or when Jackson is 'ready' to take his spot. Trade Valbuena if/when Vitters is 'ready'. 

Campana...I know you don't want to hear it, but it would be good to get him some playing time. 30 stolen bases in 174AB? That is worth something. LaHair might adjust back to the league. Yeah, Cubs2007 you don't think so, but you never thought he would hit like he did the 1st two months either. Sappelt looked decent in limited playing time. They can all fight it out for playing time.

Now, I agree with you if Epstein can find a prospect in his farm that he doesn't value and some other team does, you trade to get yourself a 3B prospect. But I doubt Theo will part with any of his recent high-profile acquisitions, so who is he giving up?
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Posted: 10/6/2012 2:35 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



SportsGoblin wrote:
There most assuredly are internal options. You just don't like them.

Valbuena at 3B, DeJesus in CF, LaHair/Sappelt/Campana fight for RF. Yes on days Campana plays, you can put DeJesus in RF.

Short of some big time acquisitions, this team is probably bad again in 2013. You trade DeJesus at the deadline or when Jackson is 'ready' to take his spot. Trade Valbuena if/when Vitters is 'ready'. 

Campana...I know you don't want to hear it, but it would be good to get him some playing time. 30 stolen bases in 174AB? That is worth something. LaHair might adjust back to the league. Yeah, Cubs2007 you don't think so, but you never thought he would hit like he did the 1st two months either. Sappelt looked decent in limited playing time. They can all fight it out for playing time.

Now, I agree with you if Epstein can find a prospect in his farm that he doesn't value and some other team does, you trade to get yourself a 3B prospect. But I doubt Theo will part with any of his recent high-profile acquisitions, so who is he giving up?
They do not have internal options if you intend on improving the team in 2013.

Valbuena is not a starting 3b.
Campana could not stay on one of the worst teams in Cubs history
LaHair could not hit lefties or play OF defense or hit enough to stay in the lineup
Sappelt is at best a 4th OF
Vitters & Jackson may never be ready and just might not be good enough to ever become starters

Even with a couple big time acquisitions they would be a bad team in 2013. But at least they would have a couple pieces to add to Castro & Rizzo in future years.

Besides Samardzija, Castro & Rizzo anyone else is available on the major league roster.
Besides Baez, Solar & Almora anyone else is available in the minors.
You have plenty to trade to help improve the team.
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Posted: 10/7/2012 6:22 AM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



SportsGoblin wrote: There most assuredly are internal options. You just don't like them.

Valbuena at 3B, DeJesus in CF, LaHair/Sappelt/Campana fight for RF. Yes on days Campana plays, you can put DeJesus in RF.

Short of some big time acquisitions, this team is probably bad again in 2013. You trade DeJesus at the deadline or when Jackson is 'ready' to take his spot. Trade Valbuena if/when Vitters is 'ready'. 

Campana...I know you don't want to hear it, but it would be good to get him some playing time. 30 stolen bases in 174AB? That is worth something. LaHair might adjust back to the league. Yeah, Cubs2007 you don't think so, but you never thought he would hit like he did the 1st two months either. Sappelt looked decent in limited playing time. They can all fight it out for playing time.

Now, I agree with you if Epstein can find a prospect in his farm that he doesn't value and some other team does, you trade to get yourself a 3B prospect. But I doubt Theo will part with any of his recent high-profile acquisitions, so who is he giving up?
I agree that most likely will go with internal options but they might look for a stop gap perhaps in the outfield. I just think it will come down to who is available and how much will it cost because most of this year's resources (FA money, trades etc) will be spent on starting pitching.
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Posted: 10/7/2012 11:07 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
There most assuredly are internal options. You just don't like them.

Valbuena at 3B, DeJesus in CF, LaHair/Sappelt/Campana fight for RF. Yes on days Campana plays, you can put DeJesus in RF.

Short of some big time acquisitions, this team is probably bad again in 2013. You trade DeJesus at the deadline or when Jackson is 'ready' to take his spot. Trade Valbuena if/when Vitters is 'ready'. 

Campana...I know you don't want to hear it, but it would be good to get him some playing time. 30 stolen bases in 174AB? That is worth something. LaHair might adjust back to the league. Yeah, Cubs2007 you don't think so, but you never thought he would hit like he did the 1st two months either. Sappelt looked decent in limited playing time. They can all fight it out for playing time.

Now, I agree with you if Epstein can find a prospect in his farm that he doesn't value and some other team does, you trade to get yourself a 3B prospect. But I doubt Theo will part with any of his recent high-profile acquisitions, so who is he giving up?
They do not have internal options if you intend on improving the team in 2013.

Valbuena is not a starting 3b.
Campana could not stay on one of the worst teams in Cubs history
LaHair could not hit lefties or play OF defense or hit enough to stay in the lineup
Sappelt is at best a 4th OF
Vitters & Jackson may never be ready and just might not be good enough to ever become starters

Even with a couple big time acquisitions they would be a bad team in 2013. But at least they would have a couple pieces to add to Castro & Rizzo in future years.

Besides Samardzija, Castro & Rizzo anyone else is available on the major league roster.
Besides Baez, Solar & Almora anyone else is available in the minors.
You have plenty to trade to help improve the team.
There won't be any short term answers in FA for 3B. Long term they have have Baez, Villanueva, Lake, Vitters, Amaya and Candelario to groom for the position. In 2013 I think we will see what we saw in 2012. I would not be suprised to see Stewart and Valbuena back with Vitters in AAA and Lake playing 3B in AA.

The Cubs are loaded with position prospects right now but have little in the way of top of the rotation arms. If they dive into FA, I think it will be for long term pitching.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 8:40 AM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



absolutebadger wrote:
 
There won't be any short term answers in FA for 3B. Long term they have have Baez, Villanueva, Lake, Vitters, Amaya and Candelario to groom for the position. In 2013 I think we will see what we saw in 2012. I would not be suprised to see Stewart and Valbuena back with Vitters in AAA and Lake playing 3B in AA.

The Cubs are loaded with position prospects right now but have little in the way of top of the rotation arms. If they dive into FA, I think it will be for long term pitching.
I think you agree the Cubs need to either sign free agents or make trades if they intend on improving the team. The internal options are either not ready or not good.

At 3b both Bruce Miles & Bruce Levine have reported the front office is ready to move on from Stewart. Valbuena seems to be a last resort. Weak free agents so this position will need a trade to improve.

OF - I can see an OF added via free agency - some good CF options

Starting pitching - Need 2 maybe 3 starters - Maybe sign 2 free agents & add another starter via trade.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 10:09 AM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



cubs2007 wrote: 

They do not have internal options if you intend on improving the team in 2013.

Valbuena is not a starting 3b.
Campana could not stay on one of the worst teams in Cubs history
LaHair could not hit lefties or play OF defense or hit enough to stay in the lineup
Sappelt is at best a 4th OF
Vitters & Jackson may never be ready and just might not be good enough to ever become starters

Even with a couple big time acquisitions they would be a bad team in 2013. But at least they would have a couple pieces to add to Castro & Rizzo in future years.

Besides Samardzija, Castro & Rizzo anyone else is available on the major league roster.
Besides Baez, Solar & Almora anyone else is available in the minors.
You have plenty to trade to help improve the team.
Lets be clear. ANYONE is available on the major or minor league rosters for the right return. The return might be very very high, however.

Next, they are looking long term. They pretty much expect to be bad in 2013 again. So they are not giving up prospects except for other prospects or guys with many years of control.

Vitters and Jackson are not their signings, so if they can trade them for guys more to their liking, they will. Otherwise, they will get another shot with the Cubs in 2013 at some point, assuming Valbuena and whomever don't lock up the positions. 

Per the article you referenced, they don't seem interested in signing marquis freee agents, as they will be paying for what the guy did rather than what he will do. They will try to add a couple of starting pitchers.

I have a sneaky suspicion the payroll for the 2013 Cubs will be quite a bit lower than the 2012 payroll.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 10:14 AM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
absolutebadger wrote:
 
There won't be any short term answers in FA for 3B. Long term they have have Baez, Villanueva, Lake, Vitters, Amaya and Candelario to groom for the position. In 2013 I think we will see what we saw in 2012. I would not be suprised to see Stewart and Valbuena back with Vitters in AAA and Lake playing 3B in AA.

The Cubs are loaded with position prospects right now but have little in the way of top of the rotation arms. If they dive into FA, I think it will be for long term pitching.
I think you agree the Cubs need to either sign free agents or make trades if they intend on improving the team. The internal options are either not ready or not good.

At 3b both Bruce Miles & Bruce Levine have reported the front office is ready to move on from Stewart. Valbuena seems to be a last resort. Weak free agents so this position will need a trade to improve.

OF - I can see an OF added via free agency - some good CF options

Starting pitching - Need 2 maybe 3 starters - Maybe sign 2 free agents & add another starter via trade.
The problem with trading for a 3B is that first you have to find a team willing to trade away a top prospect at one of the hardest positions to cover, and secondly if you trade you are looking to lock down the position for the long term. I think the Cubs have too many top caliber prospects from the ages of 19-23 they are high on to go out and sign a long term answer at 3B.

What would they be trading for anyway? Another prospect? Only 11 teams in baseball had an OPS of .750+ out of the position, so exactly who has talent just laying around that they don't need on their own roster.

The Cubs need to use their prospects, draft picks and their payroll flexibility toward the one area where they are severely lacking as an organization and that is pitching. 9 of the top 10 prospects for 2013 look to be IF/OF with Vizcaino the only pitcher. None of the Cub's pitchers in their current top 20 prospects project to be top of the rotation starters. This team needs pitching at all levels.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 10:28 AM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
absolutebadger wrote:
 
There won't be any short term answers in FA for 3B. Long term they have have Baez, Villanueva, Lake, Vitters, Amaya and Candelario to groom for the position. In 2013 I think we will see what we saw in 2012. I would not be suprised to see Stewart and Valbuena back with Vitters in AAA and Lake playing 3B in AA.

The Cubs are loaded with position prospects right now but have little in the way of top of the rotation arms. If they dive into FA, I think it will be for long term pitching.
I think you agree the Cubs need to either sign free agents or make trades if they intend on improving the team. The internal options are either not ready or not good.

At 3b both Bruce Miles & Bruce Levine have reported the front office is ready to move on from Stewart. Valbuena seems to be a last resort. Weak free agents so this position will need a trade to improve.

OF - I can see an OF added via free agency - some good CF options

Starting pitching - Need 2 maybe 3 starters - Maybe sign 2 free agents & add another starter via trade.
There is nothing stopping them from moving on from Stewart right now. They also could have released him any time during the season, even after the injury.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 10:29 AM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: 

They do not have internal options if you intend on improving the team in 2013.

Valbuena is not a starting 3b.
Campana could not stay on one of the worst teams in Cubs history
LaHair could not hit lefties or play OF defense or hit enough to stay in the lineup
Sappelt is at best a 4th OF
Vitters & Jackson may never be ready and just might not be good enough to ever become starters

Even with a couple big time acquisitions they would be a bad team in 2013. But at least they would have a couple pieces to add to Castro & Rizzo in future years.

Besides Samardzija, Castro & Rizzo anyone else is available on the major league roster.
Besides Baez, Solar & Almora anyone else is available in the minors.
You have plenty to trade to help improve the team.
Lets be clear. ANYONE is available on the major or minor league rosters for the right return. The return might be very very high, however.

Next, they are looking long term. They pretty much expect to be bad in 2013 again. So they are not giving up prospects except for other prospects or guys with many years of control.

Vitters and Jackson are not their signings, so if they can trade them for guys more to their liking, they will. Otherwise, they will get another shot with the Cubs in 2013 at some point, assuming Valbuena and whomever don't lock up the positions. 

Per the article you referenced, they don't seem interested in signing marquis freee agents, as they will be paying for what the guy did rather than what he will do. They will try to add a couple of starting pitchers.

I have a sneaky suspicion the payroll for the 2013 Cubs will be quite a bit lower than the 2012 payroll.
Here is what Theo said in general about free agency: “There’s no blanket rule that says because we’re committed to a certain vision for the future that we can’t sign a contract with a certain duration. Hopefully we sign players this winter, things break our way and we sign players who become big parts of that future and become elements of our foundation. Things have to break a certain way for us for that to happen. But that’s the goal. You don’t only set out looking for stopgap. You don’t only set out looking for players you can flip for younger players down the line. You set out looking for players that can become part of that foundation, through trade primarily, but also through free agency. If there’s the right player with the right contract and even of a significant length, if we believe in that player and we believe in that investment, we won’t shy away from it.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 10:49 AM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



absolutebadger wrote:
The problem with trading for a 3B is that first you have to find a team willing to trade away a top prospect at one of the hardest positions to cover, and secondly if you trade you are looking to lock down the position for the long term. I think the Cubs have too many top caliber prospects from the ages of 19-23 they are high on to go out and sign a long term answer at 3B.

What would they be trading for anyway? Another prospect? Only 11 teams in baseball had an OPS of .750+ out of the position, so exactly who has talent just laying around that they don't need on their own roster.

The Cubs need to use their prospects, draft picks and their payroll flexibility toward the one area where they are severely lacking as an organization and that is pitching. 9 of the top 10 prospects for 2013 look to be IF/OF with Vizcaino the only pitcher. None of the Cub's pitchers in their current top 20 prospects project to be top of the rotation starters. This team needs pitching at all levels.
If you can find a long term answer at 3b then do it. None of their top prospects are currently 3b but could / or may switch to 3b later like Baez & Lake. You can never have too many good players in your system.
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Posted: 10/8/2012 2:37 PM

Re: Where do the Cubs go from here ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: 

They do not have internal options if you intend on improving the team in 2013.

Valbuena is not a starting 3b.
Campana could not stay on one of the worst teams in Cubs history
LaHair could not hit lefties or play OF defense or hit enough to stay in the lineup
Sappelt is at best a 4th OF
Vitters & Jackson may never be ready and just might not be good enough to ever become starters

Even with a couple big time acquisitions they would be a bad team in 2013. But at least they would have a couple pieces to add to Castro & Rizzo in future years.

Besides Samardzija, Castro & Rizzo anyone else is available on the major league roster.
Besides Baez, Solar & Almora anyone else is available in the minors.
You have plenty to trade to help improve the team.
Lets be clear. ANYONE is available on the major or minor league rosters for the right return. The return might be very very high, however.

Next, they are looking long term. They pretty much expect to be bad in 2013 again. So they are not giving up prospects except for other prospects or guys with many years of control.

Vitters and Jackson are not their signings, so if they can trade them for guys more to their liking, they will. Otherwise, they will get another shot with the Cubs in 2013 at some point, assuming Valbuena and whomever don't lock up the positions. 

Per the article you referenced, they don't seem interested in signing marquis freee agents, as they will be paying for what the guy did rather than what he will do. They will try to add a couple of starting pitchers.

I have a sneaky suspicion the payroll for the 2013 Cubs will be quite a bit lower than the 2012 payroll.
Here is what Theo said in general about free agency: “There’s no blanket rule that says because we’re committed to a certain vision for the future that we can’t sign a contract with a certain duration. Hopefully we sign players this winter, things break our way and we sign players who become big parts of that future and become elements of our foundation. Things have to break a certain way for us for that to happen. But that’s the goal. You don’t only set out looking for stopgap. You don’t only set out looking for players you can flip for younger players down the line. You set out looking for players that can become part of that foundation, through trade primarily, but also through free agency. If there’s the right player with the right contract and even of a significant length, if we believe in that player and we believe in that investment, we won’t shy away from it.
It's a long way of saying if they get the guy they want for the price they want, sure they will consider a longer signing. It wasn't exactly an endorsement that they will sign other than stop gaps...just that they could, so buy those tickets now....
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