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Trade LaHair ?

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Posted: 10/3/2012 11:11 AM

Trade LaHair ? 


LaHair might have been the most discussed player this past off-season. He went from starter at 1b to bench player to maybe not making the team in 2013. Many debated he would move to RF once Rizzo came up but he proved to not be good defensively and his offensive numbers declined over the year.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicag...o-cubs-is-50-50
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Posted: 10/3/2012 12:51 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 


I have to say I like the guy a lot and I hope he's traded.  There's just no place for him on this team moving forward.  I think he could be a solid everyday player for someone and he's wasted a bit on the bench but what are you realistically gonna get for him?  Maybe a midlevel pitching prospect?  Maybe he's part of a bigger package but I'm not floored by his trade value going into the offseason.
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Posted: 10/3/2012 2:17 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



cubs2007 wrote: LaHair might have been the most discussed player this past off-season. He went from starter at 1b to bench player to maybe not making the team in 2013. Many debated he would move to RF once Rizzo came up but he proved to not be good defensively and his offensive numbers declined over the year.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicag...o-cubs-is-50-50
He went from starter at 1B to All-Star to bench player to...he had quite a run for the couple months it lasted.

As for what they do with him...they probably keep him. He's cheap and is a good bat off the bench. They likely won't get what he's worth in a trade, and there will be more DH opportunities next year with the new schedule.

He was plenty good enough defensively to play RF, so they could occasionally play him there too. The issue was that he stopped hitting, and obviously if he can't hit, you don't want him playing at any position. Hopefully he can get his groove back.
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Posted: 10/3/2012 2:54 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: LaHair might have been the most discussed player this past off-season. He went from starter at 1b to bench player to maybe not making the team in 2013. Many debated he would move to RF once Rizzo came up but he proved to not be good defensively and his offensive numbers declined over the year.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicag...o-cubs-is-50-50
He went from starter at 1B to All-Star to bench player to...he had quite a run for the couple months it lasted.

As for what they do with him...they probably keep him. He's cheap and is a good bat off the bench. They likely won't get what he's worth in a trade, and there will be more DH opportunities next year with the new schedule.

He was plenty good enough defensively to play RF, so they could occasionally play him there too. The issue was that he stopped hitting, and obviously if he can't hit, you don't want him playing at any position. Hopefully he can get his groove back.
There is a better chance he will play in Japan than with the Cubs. He was not good enough defensively in the OF which is why he sat on the bench.

His run was really 1 month -
Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS

April/March

20

17

70

59

11

23

8

0

5

14

10

25

.390

.471

.780

1.251

May

25

23

99

87

11

22

2

0

5

8

12

24

.253

.343

.448

.792

June

22

16

70

65

8

15

2

0

3

6

5

25

.231

.286

.400

.686

July

21

18

69

62

4

12

0

0

1

3

7

27

.194

.275

.242

.517

August

18

9

44

39

6

8

4

0

1

3

5

12

.205

.295

.385

.680

Sept/Oct

23

2

23

23

1

6

1

0

0

4

0

11

.261

.261

.304

.565

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Posted: 10/3/2012 5:42 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: LaHair might have been the most discussed player this past off-season. He went from starter at 1b to bench player to maybe not making the team in 2013. Many debated he would move to RF once Rizzo came up but he proved to not be good defensively and his offensive numbers declined over the year.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicag...o-cubs-is-50-50
He went from starter at 1B to All-Star to bench player to...he had quite a run for the couple months it lasted.

As for what they do with him...they probably keep him. He's cheap and is a good bat off the bench. They likely won't get what he's worth in a trade, and there will be more DH opportunities next year with the new schedule.

He was plenty good enough defensively to play RF, so they could occasionally play him there too. The issue was that he stopped hitting, and obviously if he can't hit, you don't want him playing at any position. Hopefully he can get his groove back.
There is a better chance he will play in Japan than with the Cubs. He was not good enough defensively in the OF which is why he sat on the bench.

His run was really 1 month -
Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS

April/March

20

17

70

59

11

23

8

0

5

14

10

25

.390

.471

.780

1.251

May

25

23

99

87

11

22

2

0

5

8

12

24

.253

.343

.448

.792

June

22

16

70

65

8

15

2

0

3

6

5

25

.231

.286

.400

.686

July

21

18

69

62

4

12

0

0

1

3

7

27

.194

.275

.242

.517

August

18

9

44

39

6

8

4

0

1

3

5

12

.205

.295

.385

.680

Sept/Oct

23

2

23

23

1

6

1

0

0

4

0

11

.261

.261

.304

.565

After the All-Star Game, BLH had a grand total of two--count 'em--two home runs and 10 RBI in 109 AB's.  Granted, a lot of those at-bats were as a pinch-hitter--a tough role for a guy with limited MLB experience--but when you're a defensively-challenged player who cannot hit lefties, you need to rake against righties when given the chance.  It looks to me like he's best suited as part of a DH platoon...but what would the Cubs get for him in a trade?  A low-ceiling A-ball pitcher?  Maybe Theo & Jed will dangle him out on the market and see if anyone bites...your guess is as good as mine.
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Posted: 10/3/2012 7:15 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



cubs2007 wrote: 

(1)There is a better chance he will play in Japan than with the Cubs. (2)He was not good enough defensively in the OF which is why he sat on the bench.
(1)I tend to agree. Japanese teams were giving him decent offers last year, and he turned them down to start with the Cubs for less money. With his All Star appearance, I'm guessing the Japan offers will go up. Maybe if they trade LaHair to a team that will give him a shot to start at 1B he will stay in MLB.

(2)If he had continued to hit like he had in April, he would have played the rest of the year in RF. He was hitting worse than DeJesus after April, however, and he certainly didn't defend better than DeJesus to make up for that. You call it poor defense. I call it bad hitting.
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Posted: 10/3/2012 8:07 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 


Keep him as insurance in case Rizzo gets hurt next year. As mentioned above, it was his cold bat that kept him on the bench and out of the OF.  Maybe he starts off hot next year.  No team is going to give him a starting position and I'd pass on a low level prospect.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 7:45 AM

RE: Trade LaHair ? 


FYI, LaHair homered and got the game winning hit yesterday. Doesn't change the discussion, but it does change his stat line slightly.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 8:25 AM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: 

(1)There is a better chance he will play in Japan than with the Cubs. (2)He was not good enough defensively in the OF which is why he sat on the bench.
(1)I tend to agree. Japanese teams were giving him decent offers last year, and he turned them down to start with the Cubs for less money. With his All Star appearance, I'm guessing the Japan offers will go up. Maybe if they trade LaHair to a team that will give him a shot to start at 1B he will stay in MLB.

(2)If he had continued to hit like he had in April, he would have played the rest of the year in RF. He was hitting worse than DeJesus after April, however, and he certainly didn't defend better than DeJesus to make up for that. You call it poor defense. I call it bad hitting.
He didn't hit on top of him being a poor defensive OF. Bad combination of poor hitting and fielding. The league quickly figured him out. The all star appearance was a joke so don't defend with that fact. He has no place on the team for next season even on the bench. You can not carry a backup 1b - at least he hit more HR's than Pujols in April.
Final numbers -
LaHair - 16 HR
Pujols - 30 HR
Fielder - 30 HR
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Posted: 10/4/2012 9:14 AM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 


His trade value is very small.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 9:33 AM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



SPOONER wrote: His trade value is very small.
That was the problem with many players this year. They were all brought in with the comment that they would be traded for valuable prospects later.

The list begins and ends with Maholm / Johnson deal.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 10:01 AM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: 

(1)There is a better chance he will play in Japan than with the Cubs. (2)He was not good enough defensively in the OF which is why he sat on the bench.
(1)I tend to agree. Japanese teams were giving him decent offers last year, and he turned them down to start with the Cubs for less money. With his All Star appearance, I'm guessing the Japan offers will go up. Maybe if they trade LaHair to a team that will give him a shot to start at 1B he will stay in MLB.

(2)If he had continued to hit like he had in April, he would have played the rest of the year in RF. He was hitting worse than DeJesus after April, however, and he certainly didn't defend better than DeJesus to make up for that. You call it poor defense. I call it bad hitting.
He didn't hit on top of him being a poor defensive OF. Bad combination of poor hitting and fielding. The league quickly figured him out. The all star appearance was a joke so don't defend with that fact. He has no place on the team for next season even on the bench. You can not carry a backup 1b - at least he hit more HR's than Pujols in April.
Final numbers -
LaHair - 16 HR
Pujols - 30 HR
Fielder - 30 HR
No, your reading and comprehension skills are the joke. I mentioned that his All-Star appearance will likely net him better offers...in Japan. If you can market Matt Murton, surely you can market a MLB All Star.

Really though, his All-Star appearance, like Fukudome's all star appearance underscore a problem with MLB's all star game...the voting and the game are too early. A very good first month can get you in, and look at the numbers after the first month and you tell me who should have been the NL rep for All Star at 1B. Remember, he was voted in by the players, not the fans.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 10:36 AM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



SportsGoblin wrote:
 
No, your reading and comprehension skills are the joke. I mentioned that his All-Star appearance will likely net him better offers...in Japan. If you can market Matt Murton, surely you can market a MLB All Star.

Really though, his All-Star appearance, like Fukudome's all star appearance underscore a problem with MLB's all star game...the voting and the game are too early. A very good first month can get you in, and look at the numbers after the first month and you tell me who should have been the NL rep for All Star at 1B. Remember, he was voted in by the players, not the fans.
I understood you comment about making an all star team may get him better offers if he goes to Japan. How about LaRoche instead of LaHair ?

We went back and forth on LaHair before the season. I told you he was a placeholder for Rizzo and would be a bench player. Do you even think he is back on the team in 2013 ? I don't think he even has a role on the bench anymore.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 10:59 AM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
 
No, your reading and comprehension skills are the joke. I mentioned that his All-Star appearance will likely net him better offers...in Japan. If you can market Matt Murton, surely you can market a MLB All Star.

Really though, his All-Star appearance, like Fukudome's all star appearance underscore a problem with MLB's all star game...the voting and the game are too early. A very good first month can get you in, and look at the numbers after the first month and you tell me who should have been the NL rep for All Star at 1B. Remember, he was voted in by the players, not the fans.
I understood you comment about making an all star team may get him better offers if he goes to Japan. How about LaRoche instead of LaHair ?

We went back and forth on LaHair before the season. I told you he was a placeholder for Rizzo and would be a bench player. Do you even think he is back on the team in 2013 ? I don't think he even has a role on the bench anymore.
After April, LaRoche was hitting:
.329 BA, .415OBP, .964OPS

After April, LaHair was hitting:
.390 BA, .471OBP, 1.251 OPS

LaHair's numbers were otherworldly. Those who voted early voted for LaHair, which they should have by the numbers. You want to reduce bad selections? Eliminate early voting.

If LaHair wants to be back on the team for the league minimum for 2013, then you definitely bring him back. It isn't even a question. The problem arises because he can likely make more money playing in Japan, and possibly a lot more money. Remember when the Cubs had Randle Simon? LaHair can at a minimum be a better version of that. Consider also that (1)next year introduces more interleague games and hence more need for DH and (2)he can play RF, which a Randle Simon really could not. I also do not discount the possibility that LaHair can make a correction for how pitchers are now handling him. People were calling him a 4A guy to start 2012 and then he had a monster month before guys adjusted. Again, for the league minimum on a team not likely to contend in 2013 anyways...it is a no-brainer to bring him back and see if he can make that adjustment.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 11:03 AM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



SportsGoblin wrote:
LaHair's numbers were otherworldly. Those who voted early voted for LaHair, which they should have by the numbers. You want to reduce bad selections? Eliminate early voting.

If LaHair wants to be back on the team for the league minimum for 2013, then you definitely bring him back. It isn't even a question. The problem arises because he can likely make more money playing in Japan, and possibly a lot more money. Remember when the Cubs had Randle Simon? LaHair can at a minimum be a better version of that. Consider also that (1)next year introduces more interleague games and hence more need for DH and (2)he can play RF, which a Randle Simon really could not. I also do not discount the possibility that LaHair can make a correction for how pitchers are now handling him. People were calling him a 4A guy to start 2012 and then he had a monster month before guys adjusted. Again, for the league minimum on a team not likely to contend in 2013 anyways...it is a no-brainer to bring him back and see if he can make that adjustment.
I called him a 4A player which is what he turned out to. You called him a long term asset and thought he would be playing the OF for the next few years.

Just admit you were wrong on him.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 12:46 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
LaHair's numbers were otherworldly. Those who voted early voted for LaHair, which they should have by the numbers. You want to reduce bad selections? Eliminate early voting.

If LaHair wants to be back on the team for the league minimum for 2013, then you definitely bring him back. It isn't even a question. The problem arises because he can likely make more money playing in Japan, and possibly a lot more money. Remember when the Cubs had Randle Simon? LaHair can at a minimum be a better version of that. Consider also that (1)next year introduces more interleague games and hence more need for DH and (2)he can play RF, which a Randle Simon really could not. I also do not discount the possibility that LaHair can make a correction for how pitchers are now handling him. People were calling him a 4A guy to start 2012 and then he had a monster month before guys adjusted. Again, for the league minimum on a team not likely to contend in 2013 anyways...it is a no-brainer to bring him back and see if he can make that adjustment.
I called him a 4A player which is what he turned out to. You called him a long term asset and thought he would be playing the OF for the next few years.

Just admit you were wrong on him.
Make no mistake. He is certainly not a 4A player. He made the frigging All Star team. There is some ability there. There is certainly a place for him in MLB. He will be on a major league team next year if he wants to. The only reason he won't be is if he wants to make more money playing in Japan.

Now, will he be a starter? No, that certainly won't be given to him to start 2013 anywhere. But he could earn that spot at 1B, DH or yes even RF in the right circumstances for a team looking to take a chance on a guy who is cheap and who has delivered. Look at how bad Tyler Colvin was in 2011 and how he was 'revived' in 2012. Change of scenery, and maybe an adjustment or two.

How many "4A" players put up a .784 OPS with 16HR in over 300AB. None.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 2:07 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



SportsGoblin wrote:
 
Make no mistake. He is certainly not a 4A player. He made the frigging All Star team. There is some ability there. There is certainly a place for him in MLB. He will be on a major league team next year if he wants to. The only reason he won't be is if he wants to make more money playing in Japan.

Now, will he be a starter? No, that certainly won't be given to him to start 2013 anywhere. But he could earn that spot at 1B, DH or yes even RF in the right circumstances for a team looking to take a chance on a guy who is cheap and who has delivered. Look at how bad Tyler Colvin was in 2011 and how he was 'revived' in 2012. Change of scenery, and maybe an adjustment or two.

How many "4A" players put up a .784 OPS with 16HR in over 300AB. None.
Take away his first month and his offensive numbers are terrible. He does not have the defensive or offensive abilities to fit on the bench next season. There may be a place for him in MLB but it won't be with the Cubs.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 2:11 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
Take away his first month and his offensive numbers are terrible. He does not have the defensive or offensive abilities to fit on the bench next season. There may be a place for him in MLB but it won't be with the Cubs.

So you're saying, the 2nd worst team in baseball doesn't have a roster spot for a LH power hitter who can play 1B and some OF and is cheap? I guess you're expecting Theo/Jed to make some significant moves to the bench next season in that case.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 2:22 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



doughboy981 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
Take away his first month and his offensive numbers are terrible. He does not have the defensive or offensive abilities to fit on the bench next season. There may be a place for him in MLB but it won't be with the Cubs.

So you're saying, the 2nd worst team in baseball doesn't have a roster spot for a LH power hitter who can play 1B and some OF and is cheap? I guess you're expecting Theo/Jed to make some significant moves to the bench next season in that case.
He was on the 3rd worst team in Cubs history and once Rizzo was called up he barely played. There is no need for a backup 1b and he is not good in the OF. Sappelt would get playing time in the OF ahead of him.

He was asked if it’s a 50-50 chance that he gets traded this season. 

“I would definitely say that,” LaHair said.
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Posted: 10/4/2012 2:54 PM

Re: Trade LaHair ? 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
 
Make no mistake. He is certainly not a 4A player. He made the frigging All Star team. There is some ability there. There is certainly a place for him in MLB. He will be on a major league team next year if he wants to. The only reason he won't be is if he wants to make more money playing in Japan.

Now, will he be a starter? No, that certainly won't be given to him to start 2013 anywhere. But he could earn that spot at 1B, DH or yes even RF in the right circumstances for a team looking to take a chance on a guy who is cheap and who has delivered. Look at how bad Tyler Colvin was in 2011 and how he was 'revived' in 2012. Change of scenery, and maybe an adjustment or two.

How many "4A" players put up a .784 OPS with 16HR in over 300AB. None.
Take away his first month and his offensive numbers are terrible. He does not have the defensive or offensive abilities to fit on the bench next season. There may be a place for him in MLB but it won't be with the Cubs.
His 2nd month (May) numbers:

Avg. .253, OBP: .343 OPS: .791

Not terrible. Pretty good actually for a guy making the league minimum. 

Again, remember that the Cubs team that was 5 outs from the world series had Randall Simon on the bench for them. 

You see Barney as a bench player, LaHair as AAAA .... we're trying to put together a regular team here, not an All Star team. Not everyone is going to be an All Star.
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