|
Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 9:20 AM
Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
I wouldn't complain if the Cubs went after him this offseason.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports...els-mining.html |
|
Reply |
Quote |
- ARAMIS13
- Franchise Player
- 1883 posts this site
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 9:29 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
KatieCubFan wrote:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports...els-mining.html Of all that the most telling part I found in there was this quote: “As a fan [Wrigley Field] is one of the coolest stadiums I’ve ever been to. As a player, it’s one of the worst. So if they can change that over, then they’re going to get a lot of great players to come there.’’ Hopefully getting the clubhouses better is one of the big points for the $$$ Rickets wants to fix the place. |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 10:15 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
KatieCubFan wrote:I wouldn't complain if the Cubs went after him this offseason.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports...els-mining.html He'll command a Matt Cain type deal on the open market. $20M+ for 6 or 7 years. Is he worth the investment/risk? |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 11:06 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
--------------------------------------------- --- doughboy981 wrote: KatieCubFan wrote:I wouldn't complain if the Cubs went after him this offseason.
www.suntimes.com/sports...els-mining.html
He'll command a Matt Cain type deal on the open market. $20M+ for 6 or 7 years. Is he worth the investment/risk? --------------------------------------------- If the answer is that he's not, then you're going to be trying to get second level free agents who are usually not elite level pitchers and building through the draft (a long process). |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 11:06 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
Hamels/Garza 1-2 punch would be really solid and would be really exciting. He talks really highly about the Cubs in that article, more than I would expect a player currently under contract to.
Koyie Hill fanclub - Member #00000001 |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 11:18 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
doughboy981 wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:I wouldn't complain if the Cubs went after him this offseason.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports...els-mining.html
He'll command a Matt Cain type deal on the open market. $20M+ for 6 or 7 years. Is he worth the investment/risk? He and Cain are only a year apart in age and their career numbers are remarkably similar (Cain has a slightly better BAA, Hamels a better K/BB ratio). If it's fine for SF to take that kind of risk, why wouldn't it be for us? We have the money and are more desperate for a championship.
Last edited 4/30/2012 11:24 AM by KatieCubFan
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
- ARAMIS13
- Franchise Player
- 1883 posts this site
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 11:25 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
mike04gt wrote: Hamels/Garza 1-2 punch would be really solid and would be really exciting. He talks really highly about the Cubs in that article, more than I would expect a player currently under contract to. He's no dummy. Talking about a big market club like New York or Chicago will earn him more $$$$ one way or another. |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 11:49 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
ARAMIS13 wrote:
mike04gt wrote: Hamels/Garza 1-2 punch would be really solid and would be really exciting. He talks really highly about the Cubs in that article, more than I would expect a player currently under contract to. He's no dummy. Talking about a big market club like New York or Chicago will earn him more $$$$ one way or another. His teammate Papelbon (and Manual for that matter) also said good things about the Cubs in a separate article. What was their motive? That said, I think he'll be a Dodger. But it's a nice thought, and I still want the Cubs to at least make a serious effort.
Last edited 4/30/2012 11:50 AM by KatieCubFan
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 1:01 PM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
Signing Hamels would definitely provide a bump in the marketing department and would give the Cubs two very formidable starting pitchers. That being said, the question is always how much it would take to sign him. Jonah Keri did an article where he talked about the value of each win above replacement value is worth $5 million dollars. Looking at Hamels' WAR production, as well as accrued monetary value, is as follows: 2006: 1.9 WAR ($9.5 million value) First year up, only pitched 132 innings2007: 4.1 WAR ($20.5 million value)2008: 4.4 WAR ($22 million value)2009: 1.9 WAR ($9.5 million value)2010: 4.8 WAR ($24 million value)2011: 5.4 WAR ($27 million value)By this formula he is definitely showing that he can provide enough value to justify paying him a $20 million/year contract. I am cautious in regards to giving up a $100 million contract (which he will undoubtedly will want) because the track record of such free agent contracts is not good. I can definitely see that the first four years (injury notwithstanding) he should provide around $20 million in annual value for the organization. Money aside the biggest question Cubs management has to wonder is when they think this team will see their window of opportunity to open and close. If they think they can get this team to hit their stride in two years then I think it's a no-doubter. If they think it will take longer it might be a little tougher to pull the trigger. He likely has three more years of elite production before you will see the traditional decline.
Baez has "top-shelf bat speed," according to one National League scout who recently saw him play. "I haven't seen that type of bat speed this year outside of the big leagues. It's pure, unadulterated, just violent bat-speed."
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 1:09 PM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
Are the Cubs going to sign Garza long-term? If we have both Garza and Hamels, that is a formidable top of the rotation. If Garza isn't in the plans, then I'm not sure signing Hamels makes a lot of sense now.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 2:07 PM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
---------------------------------------------
--- doughboy981 wrote:
Are the Cubs going to sign Garza long-term? If we have both Garza and Hamels, that is a formidable top of the rotation. If Garza isn't in the plans, then I'm not sure signing Hamels makes a lot of sense now.
---------------------------------------------
The question I ask, if not now then when? In order to be good enough to sign elite free agents, you need to be good team (or, at least, that's what I'm told). How do you become a good team to sign free agents when your system is not rich in prospects comming up soon?
One formula for being a team that can not only surprise by making the playoffs, but make a serious run once in, is to have a formidable rotation featuring an ace and and ace (a). Hammels and Garze would make ay rotation solid, but given the Cubs potential depth at the back end of the rotation where they could be among the betters teams if things work out with Shark/Maholm/Volstad and even Mc Nutt, they could build a rotation that can carry a weak hitting team (see 2010 Giants).
Next year the only obligations the Cubs have are Soriano and a few extra dollars totaling $34 mil. They could certainly afford a elite pitcher. They should seriously consider a move like Hammels not solely becasue they can afford him, but because he would make them better. And that is the goal.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 2:28 PM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
Also worth considering - even if you don't expect the Cubs to be good in 2013, might they be in 2014? 2015? Guys like Hamels don't come on the free market all that often, and you can only sign them when they're actually available. I very much hope the Cubs make a serious run at him, whatever their plan for 2013.
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 2:48 PM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
MiltAndZsSchoolOfRock wrote:
---------------------------------------------
--- doughboy981 wrote:
Are the Cubs going to sign Garza long-term? If we have both Garza and Hamels, that is a formidable top of the rotation. If Garza isn't in the plans, then I'm not sure signing Hamels makes a lot of sense now.
---------------------------------------------
The question I ask, if not now then when? In order to be good enough to sign elite free agents, you need to be good team (or, at least, that's what I'm told). How do you become a good team to sign free agents when your system is not rich in prospects comming up soon?
One formula for being a team that can not only surprise by making the playoffs, but make a serious run once in, is to have a formidable rotation featuring an ace and and ace (a). Hammels and Garze would make ay rotation solid, but given the Cubs potential depth at the back end of the rotation where they could be among the betters teams if things work out with Shark/Maholm/Volstad and even Mc Nutt, they could build a rotation that can carry a weak hitting team (see 2010 Giants).
Next year the only obligations the Cubs have are Soriano and a few extra dollars totaling $34 mil. They could certainly afford a elite pitcher. They should seriously consider a move like Hammels not solely becasue they can afford him, but because he would make them better. And that is the goal. It takes more than money to attract some of the best players. The facilities need an upgrade and like it or not the Cubs are broken until wrigley is fixed. What Cole had to say has been heard over and over from players throughout baseball. “That right there will impact players,’’ said Hamels, who suggested the promise of renovations would increase his interest in the Cubs, “because we’ve all played there and realize how brutal the facilities are. I don’t think fans know how much time we spend in the clubhouse and how much time we spend at the field. And when you don’t have adequate equipment or facilities — you want to know that they’re trying to make it comfortable for you because you’re at the field more than you’re at home. “You’ve got to make it nice, because if you do, players are going to want to be there. They’re going to want to come to the organization. You’re going to have players that would think on the lines of, ‘Hey, do I go to a Yankees organization that has all the money and great facilities, or do I go to the Cubs, who are finally building the good stuff.’ And I think that’s where you can finally get the top players. “As a fan [Wrigley Field] is one of the coolest stadiums I’ve ever been to. As a player, it’s one of the worst. So if they can change that over, then they’re going to get a lot of great players to come there.’’ |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2012 10:28 PM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
doughboy981 wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:I wouldn't complain if the Cubs went after him this offseason.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports...els-mining.html
He'll command a Matt Cain type deal on the open market. $20M+ for 6 or 7 years. Is he worth the investment/risk? if that's all it takes, absolutely. i expect him to challenge CC's deal, though. i feel like he's going to be closer to $200m (9 years?) than he will be to $150. cain signed an extension, nobody else was bidding. it's not a good benchmark for free agency. |
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2012 10:55 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
I am enjoying this season, despite the losses. I am enjoying it just to see which guys play into the long term plans and improvements in guys like Castro. I am looking forward to the draft as well.
Next year and the year after, I am interested in the FA signings this team makes. Didn't Theo mention something about being hesitant to give large contracts to guys over 30?
Looking at those available in the 2013 and 2014 free agent listings (I am going off of what mlbtraderumors is showing, so that is what I am basing my post on), it seems this team will have to build through pitching. I would love to see them sign Greinke and Hamels--- I know it is a pipe dream.
I would imagine we can rule out 1B with LaHair or Rizzo, SS with Castro, C with Soto/Clevenger/Castillo, CF with Jackson, and LF with Soriano if he is not moved. That leaves possible upgrades at 2B (I like Barney though), 3B and an OF slot.
The only interesting guys on the on the 2013 listed 30 or younger are Robinson Cano at 2B, David Wright at 3B, Melky Cabrera for OF, BJ Upton in the OF, Michael Bourn in the OF, and Brian McCann at C (though I doubt we go there).
For 2014, the position players I find interesting or even worth looking at are Martin Prado who can play 2B/3B/LF, Adam Jones in the OF, and Jacoby Ellsbury. As for pitching, there is Ubaldo Jimenez, Jair Jurrjens, Jon Lester, and Tim Lincecum.
With this team, it seems we as fans have to look at things broader than just the next couple of seasons. Where do you see this team building back up? The only sure fire guys I see from the system are Jackson and Rizzo (assuming they produce!). I would like to see Castillo over Soto. For the near future that seems to be it, maybe Baez moves quickly, maybe Szczur moves up quickly, and maybe McNutt/Maples/Whitenack or some other pitcher produces in the next couple of years.
I know long term we should see the moves and improvements made to our scouting and resources, facilities in the Dominican and wherever, and how we draft. Where does everyone see the dramatic changes being made on the MLB roster?
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2012 11:30 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
Catcher is as open of a position as any they have. The starting catcher on the next competitive Cubs team is almost certainly not on this roster. Soto is mess, don't know what happened. PED's might be a fair assumption with the wide range of his numbers from year to year. Clevenger will make you long for Michael Barrett as a defensive catcher. Welly is nothing more than a backup.
Forget Cano, the Yanks won't let him leave nor will he want to.
I think the one way the Cubs can make themselves respectable during the next few years as they try to build themselves (like any other team trying to do it through the draft) would be to invest into pitching. A solid rotation, not this years definition of solid, but a real definition of solid, would make moves that are predicated on catching lightning in a bottle (like the future Stewarts, DeJesuses, Voldtads etc.) easier to swallow.
Quick fix plan WITHOUT SACRAFICING the future
Build a formidable rotation by making two large investments:
1)Resign Garza
2) Add Hammels or Grienke (preferably Hammels).
3)Hope like hell Samardzija is the real deal to give you 3 pitchers that have the ability to control any game.
4) Maholm is good enough for anyone's back end rotation so he's already a plus.
5) Find a 5th among Wells, Volstad or another bargain find on he market like Maholm was.
Address the lineup from within without spending money:
1) Hope like hell Jackson and Rizzo are indeed the real deal.
2) If thats the case, the you certainly can afford to let Sori go to build a better lineup
3) play LaHair (if hes proves to be useful) in LF (this would hurt my guy Goblin but we can fix that in the next line)
4) for my guy Goblin, play Campana in CF and BJax in LF if LaHair busts out. A defensive OF of BJAX, Camp, DD, would be as good as any in ground covered.
5) find a defensive catcher on the scrap heap.
With that alone, the Cubs would be more than respectable going forward.
Having Garza and Hammels would make it easier to build a competitive team. The owner, the team prez, the teams GM all have said that their goal is to field competitive teams every year. They lied this year, they can make up for it next.
With that, the announced sellout crowds would look like sellouts instead of half filled stadiums.
Last edited 5/2/2012 11:49 AM by MiltAndZsSchoolOfRock
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2012 11:57 AM
Re: Cole Hamels talks Cubs in Sun Times
Montero, Napoli, and McCann will come up for free agency in the next two years so if the Cubs looks for a quick fix catcher that can bring something to the plate they will have options.
Baez has "top-shelf bat speed," according to one National League scout who recently saw him play. "I haven't seen that type of bat speed this year outside of the big leagues. It's pure, unadulterated, just violent bat-speed."
|
|
Reply |
Quote |
