Aaron Heilman was dealt for two minor leaguers (Scott Maine and Ryne White). That really makes the trade for Heilman look really bad last year. Trading Pie for the younger pitcher from Baltimore only to trade him to get Heilman. White is an infielder and Maine is a left handed pitcher

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/5869463662

Not really. Pie was never going to have success here nor he will turn into a player of real significance. Can we just be happy to get rid of Heilman and is a bloated contract? Hopefully this will free up a few coins to get a player or two who can actually contribute!

Getting two minor leaguers for a guy we were going to non-tender seems good to me.

Don't fret about Pie... he is another classic example of running a prospect into the ground and selling as low as possible.  It's the Cubbie way.

That is a good sart to the off season for me.

That really makes the trade for Heilman look really bad last year. Trading Pie for the younger pitcher from Baltimore only to trade him to get Heilman.

Not really Felix Pie is still a 4th outfielder even though he had some success in the second half and Olson was awful for the Mariners last year. Heilman wasn't that good for us, but we got more out of him then we most likely would have gotten for Pie. Especially since Pie was out of options and we didn't really have a spot for him. Even if Pie does develope into a decent regular he wasn't going to do that in our situation the way it is. As for Heilman I know alot of people say he sucks and he didn't pitch all that good last season. But the guy still pitched decent and has good stuff. So he had more value then to just nontender, so I figured they would trade him if they weren't going to keep him. I guess they will probably use the money saved on him to use for another veteran. Overall this is a good trade because we got a young reliever who can help us this year and be a solid reliever in the future. The firstbase prospect seems like a long shot to make it, but he was a decent prospect going into last season so it's not a bad pick up. Plus now we can use the money saved on Heilman to add another late inning reliever.

cubswinworldseries22 wrote:

Not really Felix Pie is still a 4th outfielder even though he had some success in the second half and Olson was awful for the Mariners last year. Heilman wasn't that good for us, but we got more out of him then we most likely would have gotten for Pie. Especially since Pie was out of options and we didn't really have a spot for him.

We could have kept Pie instead of signing Gathright.

Even if Pie does develope into a decent regular he wasn't going to do that in our situation the way it is. As for Heilman I know alot of people say he sucks and he didn't pitch all that good last season. But the guy still pitched decent and has good stuff. So he had more value then to just nontender, so I figured they would trade him if they weren't going to keep him. I guess they will probably use the money saved on him to use for another veteran.

We really don't save money because he was on the last year of a contract. If we tendered him a contract it would have cost team approx 2 million.

Overall this is a good trade because we got a young reliever who can help us this year and be a solid reliever in the future. The firstbase prospect seems like a long shot to make it, but he was a decent prospect going into last season so it's not a bad pick up. Plus now we can use the money saved on Heilman to add another late inning reliever.

We are signing Grabow for 2 years 7.5 million. My guess is we will fill the bullpen with the young arms already in the organization.

We could have kept Pie instead of signing Gathright.

Yes but in the long run there wasn't room for Gathright either. So that means Pie would have been probably let go as well.

We really don't save money because he was on the last year of a contract. If we tendered him a contract it would have cost team approx 2 million.

Heilman wasn't a free agent, if the Cubs wanted him back they could have just tendered him a contract and he would have been there's. With how talented Heilman(and was decent last year) is and with him having success in the  past I doubt the Cubs would have nontendered him for nothing. So they got prospects for him and now can use the money saved on him for another reliever.

We are signing Grabow for 2 years 7.5 million. My guess is we will fill the bullpen with the young arms already in the organization.

I doubt it because Guzman is too risky, with his history of injuries. Even last year when he pitched well he still was on the DL a few times. They won't go with just Marmol/Grabow/Guzman and a bunch of young guys. They will add another veteran in the mix. Especially with two of Marshall, Gorzelanny and Samardzija most likely needed in the rotation at first. They will let the younger guys win 2 spots but I doubt they will leave three spots open to unproven guys.

cubswinworldseries wrote:

We could have kept Pie instead of signing Gathright.

Yes but in the long run there wasn't room for Gathright either. So that means Pie would have been probably let go as well.

There wasn't room for Gathright because he sucked. We had Fuld & Colvin and others in the role. We would have been betteroff keeping Pie who still has more upside than any of our OF's in the minors

We really don't save money because he was on the last year of a contract. If we tendered him a contract it would have cost team approx 2 million.

Heilman wasn't a free agent, if the Cubs wanted him back they could have just tendered him a contract and he would have been there's. With how talented Heilman(and was decent last year) is and with him having success in the  past I doubt the Cubs would have nontendered him for nothing. So they got prospects for him and now can use the money saved on him for another reliever.

Many teams will non tendor players for nothing. Hendry liked Heilman but my guess is they decided they will not pay him or another veteran 2 million in the bullpen. They will need the cash for other open spots on the roster.

We are signing Grabow for 2 years 7.5 million. My guess is we will fill the bullpen with the young arms already in the organization.

I doubt it because Guzman is too risky, with his history of injuries. Even last year when he pitched well he still was on the DL a few times. They won't go with just Marmol/Grabow/Guzman and a bunch of young guys. They will add another veteran in the mix. Especially with two of Marshall, Gorzelanny and Samardzija most likely needed in the rotation at first. They will let the younger guys win 2 spots but I doubt they will leave three spots open to unproven guys.

If the Cubs get Millwood for Bradley that puts another arm in the rotation. Then you could put Samardzija in the bullpen where he belongs and whoever doesn't get the 5th spot between Marshall/Gorzelanny. So that leaves Berg, Stevens, Atkins, Caridad, Patton, Archer, Gaub, Parker to battle for the final 2 spots. I'd rather throw our own arms who have some mlb experience than overpay for some veteran relief pitcher that you can't count on anyway.

You know, this makes me smile.  I refuse to give my reasons.  You know why?  Because we're all friends and we know why.  Right? 

Spending money on middle guys is a waste of resources. There is a reason they are middle men to start with. Spend the bullpen money on a closer and setup man only, the rest is a crapshoot and none of the others should make more than 2 million. Paying 3-4 million for a guy to pitch the 6th inning with a lifetime 4 ERA and a WHIP north of 1.3 is just bad management. If Guzman does break down, the Cubs could always make a move at the deadline. Or, maybe, one of the young guys that make the team will be ready to step into the 7th inning role.

The best reason to use the young guys is that if they struggle they can be sent back to the minors. If a high paid vet struggles the team is pretty much screwed.

cubswinworldseries22 wrote:

There wasn't room for Gathright because he sucked. We had Fuld & Colvin and others in the role.

 

Fuld and Colvin weren't called up until after Reed Johnson was hurt and Milton Bradley was suspend. Pie would have had to be on the roster all season and never would have made it. If Pie is hitting below 200 in the first two months(like he did for the Orioles) for us he would have been traded or waive during the season. Pie just wasn't going to work out for us because he needed to get some playing time and go through alot of growing pains. With the Cubs wanting to win now Pie wasn't going to get that here. Pie still hasn't proven he's a good player yet, and 140 AB's of success in the second half doesn't change my opinion on him.

 

If the Cubs get Millwood for Bradley that puts another arm in the rotation. Then you could put Samardzija in the bullpen where he belongs and whoever doesn't get the 5th spot between Marshall/Gorzelanny. So that leaves Berg, Stevens, Atkins, Caridad, Patton, Archer, Gaub, Parker to battle for the final 2 spots. I'd rather throw our own arms who have some mlb experience than overpay for some veteran relief pitcher that you can't count on anyway.

 

Well I guess it depends on if we get Millwood or not. Personally I think that would be a great trade, but almost seems too good to be true. As for the young relievers you mentioned only a few of those guys I'm high or think they can be successful next year. Berg has pitched crappy in the minors over his career so I don't expect much out of him, and I think Akins and Patton need more work in the minors. Archer I believe is still a little while away and still planning on being a starter. Caridad, Stevens, Gaub, Parker and one of Marshall/Gorzelanny can be the long guy. Still say you got Marmol closing, Grabow, Guzman in the 7th/8th, then two spots for Gaub,Parker,Stevens,Gaub and whoever else and then Gorzelanny/Marshall. I still think were missing one more decent veteran pitcher. Especially with Guzman having a history of poor health in the past and including last season. I'm all for giving the young guys a chance in the bullpen, but  I also don't want too much youth out there and still feel we need one more solid veteran out there. From what  I heard about Samardzija  is he will be a starter next season all year. So if he's not starting for the Cubs in the majors, they will keep him in Triple A starting and try to develope some of his pitches.

I've advocated a trade of Bradley and a young arm (Marshall or Gorzelanny would be immediately inserted into their rotation), as well as cash for Kevin Millwood since it became clear we were going to need to move MB.  It gives the Rangers more financial flexibility, a younger arm with control for longer than the end of 2010, and it also replaces Blalock at DH for them with a strong .OBP bat.  For us, it essentially fills in Lilly's slot in the rotation until he gets back, and then we have a rotation of Zambrano, Millwood, Lilly, Dempster, and Wells going into the thick of the season.  It's a win-win for both organizations if JH can make the numbers work.  If we needed to add an extra prospect to get it done, it should still get done: Millwood's salary freed up after 2010 could pay for us to retain Lilly and/or Lee (which, in turn, means we can retain ARAM, who could opt out if it looks like we're going to cheap out).

With regard to the Heilman trade, it essentially makes the Grabow signing a wash financially.  I guess JH figured we were strong enough in RHRP's in our farm system to absorb the loss of Heilman without much consequence.  I'm glad we got a couple kids for him... probably a better package than we would have gotten for Pie and Cedeno a year ago.  Overall, good deal.

I've advocated a trade of Bradley and a young arm (Marshall or Gorzelanny would be immediately inserted into their rotation), as well as cash for Kevin Millwood since it became clear we were going to need to move MB

Well actually there's a bit of a loophole in Millwood contract, and he's still owed money beyond 2010. Look at this

5 years/$60M (2006-10)

• signed by Texas as a free agent 12/05
• $15M signing bonus (payable 2011-2015)
  
• 06:$6M, 07:$7.5M, 08:$8.5M, 09:$11M, 10:$12M

So really Millwood is owed 27m still on his contract and not 12m. Now it makes sense why they would be willing to trade a pitcher who had success last season for Bradley when it appeared Millwood was making alot less money. I heard rumors that the Cubs were trying to make the Rangers take Aaron Miles as well to make the money pretty much even. So in 2011 the Cubs would save money but be on the hook for a 3-4m in years 2012-2015 though.

It now appears that Tampa is the likely destination for Bradley.

We would get Burrell and either Wheeler or Sonnastine for Bradley and cash.

The extra pitcher replaces Heilman and who knows what we do with Burrell.

Do you have a link to that? Is this from today?

There has to be a corresponding move if we get Burrell.  He can only play LF. I use the term "play" loosely, he's right there with Soriano and Dunn.

There has to be a corresponding move if we get Burrell. 

Yeah we would be trading Burrell again if we got him. The Cubs theory would be it would be easier to trade Burrell on a one year deal. So the plan would be to get Burrell, and get the Rays to pick up some of Bradley contract in 2011. Then trade Burrell and pay some of his salary for 2010, and use the rest of his salary on adding the player we want.

cubswinworldseries22 wrote:

That really makes the trade for Heilman look really bad last year. Trading Pie for the younger pitcher from Baltimore only to trade him to get Heilman.

 

Not really Felix Pie is still a 4th outfielder even though he had some success in the second half and Olson was awful for the Mariners last year. Heilman wasn't that good for us, but we got more out of him then we most likely would have gotten for Pie. Especially since Pie was out of options and we didn't really have a spot for him. Even if Pie does develope into a decent regular he wasn't going to do that in our situation the way it is. As for Heilman I know alot of people say he sucks and he didn't pitch all that good last season. But the guy still pitched decent and has good stuff. So he had more value then to just nontender, so I figured they would trade him if they weren't going to keep him. I guess they will probably use the money saved on him to use for another veteran. Overall this is a good trade because we got a young reliever who can help us this year and be a solid reliever in the future. The firstbase prospect seems like a long shot to make it, but he was a decent prospect going into last season so it's not a bad pick up. Plus now we can use the money saved on Heilman to add another late inning reliever.

You're correct.  It was more about saving money than anything else. Heilman was very mediocre and we probably have some younger guys that can do as well for less.