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Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin

Posted: 8/16/2014 7:29 PM

Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 


There are a bunch of reason why so I will do my best to cover them all.

1. The FA catcher market is extremely weak and other than Kurt Suzuki there really isnt another option on the market that makes sense.

2. Welington Castillo has regressed horribly.  We already knew he was a butcher at framing pitches...while I give him credit he has always done a good job blocking pitches.  It is his offense though that was supposed to take off and it has not.  His Offensive numbers are pitiful   .237 Avg   an OBP just over .300   SLG under .400  and an OPS. well under .700.  Also finally his CS% is down from last year 29% to about 25% this year...factor in that he played 35 more games last year and u would believe his numbers probably will get worse. Also somewhere I read or heard that pitchers .ERA are about a run higher when Castillo catches.

3. He is a team leader...just like Rizzo leads the charge here...Martin leads the charge in Pittsburgh.

4. The Cubs need a veteran presence.in the lineup.

5. With our pitching staff getting younger and younger I cant think of many people I would rather have behind the plate than Martin calling the game.

6. The Pirates are not known spend a bunch of money.

7. The Pirates have invested a lot of time and effort into Tony Sanchez.

8. Defensively Martin is one of the best in the game.  His framing lightyears better than Castillo and his other defensive skills likely out play Castillo. He also has thrown out 38% of baserunners this year.

9. His offense is outstanding this year.   Quite honestly to me this is just an added bonus...but right now he is batting .285 with an OBP over .400

10. Defense is highly underrated.  But we know better watching Castillo this year...thing is Martin has been good offensively of late so the market for him is likely higher than if it was just his defense.

11. We are getting closer to competing and Castillo is not a guy many who many feel comfortable with...despite the HR he hit while I was typing this.

12. Perhaps the biggest reason...he is EXACTLY what Theo and Jed want and need.  I have read what they are looking for in catchers who play great defense and know how to take a walk...that is Martin, period.


So my final thoughts are with Castillo we could make him a backup...but that seems like a waste especially if I am giving Martin a 4 year deal.  Offensively I think Castillo can get back on track and be an offensive force...but defensively I have my doubts.

With Martin u have a pretty good idea what u are getting...with Castillo I have no idea yet what he is capable of and he has been here for a while now....going forward its obvious Theo doesnt know what Castillo is either or he would have offered him some kind of contract...so if Martin is not the answer than I ask...who is???

Last edited 8/16/2014 7:32 PM by wrigleykid

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Posted: 8/16/2014 7:59 PM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 


Sure, why not.  But defensive specialists aren't hard to find.  However, every backup catcher the Cubs have had in recent memory have noodle arms.

Last edited 8/16/2014 8:03 PM by KatieCubFan

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Posted: 8/17/2014 9:16 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 


And thus, you have spent more time thinking about Russell Martin than any other human ever has.

He's a fine player for his position, but signing him or not signing him has very little impact on the future of the Cubs organization. He'll be 32 next year and is putting up a slash line way above his career norms in a contract year.
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Posted: 8/17/2014 11:15 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 





---------------------------------------------
--- DoubleDown11 wrote:

And thus, you have spent more time thinking about Russell Martin than any other human ever has.



---------------------------------------------

Lol

Double Down: FTW
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Posted: 8/17/2014 11:26 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 


I don't see the Pirates putting Tony Sanchez out there full-time. They've used Chris Stewart over him all season long as the back-up and Sanchez regressed offensively in AAA compared to last year.

The Pirates may go for a cheaper option though for their full-time starter, someone like AJ Pierzynski, who is doing well in St. Louis now.

The Twins re-signed Kurt Suzuki so he is off the table.

Ryan Doumit or Brayan Pena might be solid options as you can optimize Castillo better in more of a platoon role, than as a straight back-up option. Castillo is still only below-average league-wide, not replacement level. Pena and Doumit are both switch hitters that are much better vs. RHP than LHP, while Castillo is excellent against southpaws (.828 OPS - career) The Reds, for instance, only use Pena against RH pitchers, not exclusively, but mostly. Doumit has been awful this year, but could come on a minor league contract perhaps.

The Dodgers might be looking for a reunion with Martin as well, in which case the bidding might get into the Brian McCann territory (5yr/$85M) or slightly less, maybe 4yr/$50-$60M. That would be a tough contract to swallow. If the Dodgers did decide to make some changes, AJ Ellis would be a good bounce-back trade/released option, as he fits your high BB% criteria too.

Last edited 8/17/2014 11:29 AM by PadsFS

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Posted: 8/17/2014 12:07 PM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



DoubleDown11 wrote: And thus, you have spent more time thinking about Russell Martin than any other human ever has.

He's a fine player for his position, but signing him or not signing him has very little impact on the future of the Cubs organization. He'll be 32 next year and is putting up a slash line way above his career norms in a contract year.
u mean on offense? where his career  norm is about .260 with a OBP of .350+???  Will take that any day of the week opposed to what we have right now...I already said this move is about defense..u dont think Martin could help out a young staff...also our running game sucks..the least we can  do is stop other teams from running so much on us.

a 4 year deal I am on board with ...5 possibly....I have a bit of concerns for injuries but Castillo has been no spring chicken...my only real issue is possibly once again losing the second round pick in the draft if Pittsburgh gives him a qualifying offer
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Posted: 8/17/2014 12:26 PM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



PadsFS wrote: I don't see the Pirates putting Tony Sanchez out there full-time. They've used Chris Stewart over him all season long as the back-up and Sanchez regressed offensively in AAA compared to last year.

The Pirates may go for a cheaper option though for their full-time starter, someone like AJ Pierzynski, who is doing well in St. Louis now.

The Twins re-signed Kurt Suzuki so he is off the table.

Ryan Doumit or Brayan Pena might be solid options as you can optimize Castillo better in more of a platoon role, than as a straight back-up option. Castillo is still only below-average league-wide, not replacement level. Pena and Doumit are both switch hitters that are much better vs. RHP than LHP, while Castillo is excellent against southpaws (.828 OPS - career) The Reds, for instance, only use Pena against RH pitchers, not exclusively, but mostly. Doumit has been awful this year, but could come on a minor league contract perhaps.

The Dodgers might be looking for a reunion with Martin as well, in which case the bidding might get into the Brian McCann territory (5yr/$85M) or slightly less, maybe 4yr/$50-$60M. That would be a tough contract to swallow. If the Dodgers did decide to make some changes, AJ Ellis would be a good bounce-back trade/released option, as he fits your high BB% criteria too.
Doumit is terrible defensively.  AJ Ellis is intriguing, if only because he grew up a Cubs fan in Cardinal country.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 7:51 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



wrigleykid wrote:
u mean on offense? where his career  norm is about .260 with a OBP of .350+???  Will take that any day of the week opposed to what we have right now...I already said this move is about defense..u dont think Martin could help out a young staff...also our running game sucks..the least we can  do is stop other teams from running so much on us.

a 4 year deal I am on board with ...5 possibly....I have a bit of concerns for injuries but Castillo has been no spring chicken...my only real issue is possibly once again losing the second round pick in the draft if Pittsburgh gives him a qualifying offer
The Cubs are not going to sign a 32 year old catcher to a multi year contract. I agree with one of your original points that the Cubd need a veteran in the lineup. The team will be very young and need a player that can help mentor the younger players.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 8:17 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



HomerInGloamin wrote: The Cubs are not going to sign a 32 year old catcher to a multi year contract. I agree with one of your original points that the Cubd need a veteran in the lineup. The team will be very young and need a player that can help mentor the younger players.


Veteran-wise, you could do a lot worse than signing Torii Hunter to play OF and get a couple hundred at-bats.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 8:38 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 


There's a simple reason why the Cubs don't need Russell Martin.   He can't pitch.

       We have John Baker.   That is all.

rolleyes
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Posted: 8/18/2014 8:51 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



PadsFS wrote:
HomerInGloamin wrote: The Cubs are not going to sign a 32 year old catcher to a multi year contract. I agree with one of your original points that the Cubd need a veteran in the lineup. The team will be very young and need a player that can help mentor the younger players.


Veteran-wise, you could do a lot worse than signing Torii Hunter to play OF and get a couple hundred at-bats.
I brought up Hunter in a different threrad and agree he would be a good option for the 2015 team.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 9:17 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



HomerInGloamin wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
HomerInGloamin wrote: The Cubs are not going to sign a 32 year old catcher to a multi year contract. I agree with one of your original points that the Cubd need a veteran in the lineup. The team will be very young and need a player that can help mentor the younger players.


Veteran-wise, you could do a lot worse than signing Torii Hunter to play OF and get a couple hundred at-bats.
I brought up Hunter in a different threrad and agree he would be a good option for the 2015 team.
Torii Hunter has given the Tigers 0.9 WAR in 1 2/3 seasons…at $13m AAV, no less. His defense has gotten steadily worse and he's near his career low in OBP. Oh, and he'll be 40 next year. Other than that, he's a great fit for the Cubs.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 9:23 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



Grandpaboy1967 wrote:
Torii Hunter has given the Tigers 0.9 WAR in 1 2/3 seasons…at $13m AAV, no less. His defense has gotten steadily worse and he's near his career low in OBP. Oh, and he'll be 40 next year. Other than that, he's a great fit for the Cubs.
He would be brought in as a 4th OF type player. He would have a role like Maddux did when he was brought back. A respected veteran that can help mentor the younger players. There would be a lot of value in that role for a team full of young players just promoted from the minors. Better to learn from a player like Hunter over some stop gap player that is just glad to have a job in the majors.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 10:16 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



Grandpaboy1967 wrote:
HomerInGloamin wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
HomerInGloamin wrote: The Cubs are not going to sign a 32 year old catcher to a multi year contract. I agree with one of your original points that the Cubd need a veteran in the lineup. The team will be very young and need a player that can help mentor the younger players.


Veteran-wise, you could do a lot worse than signing Torii Hunter to play OF and get a couple hundred at-bats.
I brought up Hunter in a different threrad and agree he would be a good option for the 2015 team.
Torii Hunter has given the Tigers 0.9 WAR in 1 2/3 seasons…at $13m AAV, no less. His defense has gotten steadily worse and he's near his career low in OBP. Oh, and he'll be 40 next year. Other than that, he's a great fit for the Cubs.
Yep, that < 4 percent BB rate would be a great model for the young hackers. If they era going to go old guy, find the most patient hitter available.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 10:22 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 


absolutebadger wrote:
Grandpaboy1967 wrote:
HomerInGloamin wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
HomerInGloamin wrote: The Cubs are not going to sign a 32 year old catcher to a multi year contract. I agree with one of your original points that the Cubd need a veteran in the lineup. The team will be very young and need a player that can help mentor the younger players.


Veteran-wise, you could do a lot worse than signing Torii Hunter to play OF and get a couple hundred at-bats.
I brought up Hunter in a different threrad and agree he would be a good option for the 2015 team.
Torii Hunter has given the Tigers 0.9 WAR in 1 2/3 seasons…at $13m AAV, no less. His defense has gotten steadily worse and he's near his career low in OBP. Oh, and he'll be 40 next year. Other than that, he's a great fit for the Cubs.
Yep, that < 4 percent BB rate would be a great model for the young hackers. If they era going to go old guy, find the most patient hitter available.

Which is why Martin fits... He's a vet who's made a career out of plate discipline and defensive skills which he'll likely retain into his late 30s.

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Posted: 8/18/2014 11:27 AM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



tautology wrote:

Which is why Martin fits... He's a vet who's made a career out of plate discipline and defensive skills which he'll likely retain into his late 30s.

He could fit on a 1 or 2 year deal but with the way catchers decline with all the wear and tear any longer term deal of 4+ years would seem to be a bad fit considering he is 32 next season.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 12:10 PM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



HomerInGloamin wrote:
tautology wrote:

Which is why Martin fits... He's a vet who's made a career out of plate discipline and defensive skills which he'll likely retain into his late 30s.

He could fit on a 1 or 2 year deal but with the way catchers decline with all the wear and tear any longer term deal of 4+ years would seem to be a bad fit considering he is 32 next season.
Here are his last three deals:

  • 2 years/$17M (2013-14)
    • signed by Pittsburgh as a free agent 11/29/12
    • $2M signing bonus
    • 13:$6.5M, 14:$8.5M
  • 1 year/$7.5M (2012)
    • re-signed by NY Yankees 1/24/12 (avoided arbitration $8.2M-$7M)
    • may earn additional $0.1M in performance bonuses
  • 1 year/$4M (2011)
    • signed by NY Yankees as a free agent 12/15/10
    • performance bonuses based on games as catcher: $50,000 each for 30, 35; $75,000 for 40 and each additional 5 games through 120

If some team is willing to give him more than 2 years, the Cubs probably walk away. Not sure why you are arguing against 4 years, since nobody seems to be advocating such a move?
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Posted: 8/18/2014 12:53 PM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



HomerInGloamin wrote:
Grandpaboy1967 wrote:
Torii Hunter has given the Tigers 0.9 WAR in 1 2/3 seasons…at $13m AAV, no less. His defense has gotten steadily worse and he's near his career low in OBP. Oh, and he'll be 40 next year. Other than that, he's a great fit for the Cubs.
He would be brought in as a 4th OF type player. He would have a role like Maddux did when he was brought back. A respected veteran that can help mentor the younger players. There would be a lot of value in that role for a team full of young players just promoted from the minors. Better to learn from a player like Hunter over some stop gap player that is just glad to have a job in the majors.
Do you really want a 4th outfielder who can't play the outfield anymore? Last time I checked, there's still no DH in the National League...
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Posted: 8/18/2014 1:12 PM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



absolutebadger wrote:
If some team is willing to give him more than 2 years, the Cubs probably walk away. Not sure why you are arguing against 4 years, since nobody seems to be advocating such a move?
From WrigleyKid -

a 4 year deal I am on board with ...5 possibly....
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Posted: 8/18/2014 1:58 PM

Re: Why the Cubs NEED Russell Martin 



HomerInGloamin wrote:
absolutebadger wrote:
If some team is willing to give him more than 2 years, the Cubs probably walk away. Not sure why you are arguing against 4 years, since nobody seems to be advocating such a move?
From WrigleyKid -

a 4 year deal I am on board with ...5 possibly....
Martin has been horribly underrated and if I know that...so does every GM in the game...a 2-3 year deal would be a steal
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