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Astros really screwing the pooch

Posted: 7/15/2014 9:22 AM

Astros really screwing the pooch 


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Posted: 7/15/2014 10:06 AM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 


This is great.  Declaring what amounts to a phantom injury for Aiken so they can lowball him and sign other picks.  Just great.  They want their cake and eat it too.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 11:19 AM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 


yeah and not just Aiken...the Asstros signed Nix and then rescinded that offer as well...but heres the real kicker

The Astros, if they fail to sign Aiken, would lose his assigned bonus value of $7,922,100. If they then signed Nix, they would exceed the maximum they are allowed to spend in the first round 10 rounds of the 2014 draft, triggering the loss of at least one future pick.

both Nix and Aiken have the same agent...not the smartest move by this team.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 11:26 AM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



wrigleykid wrote: yeah and not just Aiken...the Asstros signed Nix and then rescinded that offer as well...but heres the real kicker

The Astros, if they fail to sign Aiken, would lose his assigned bonus value of $7,922,100. If they then signed Nix, they would exceed the maximum they are allowed to spend in the first round 10 rounds of the 2014 draft, triggering the loss of at least one future pick.

both Nix and Aiken have the same agent...not the smartest move by this team.
And if they don't sign him they get the # 2 overall pick next year. So don't feel too bad for the Astros.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 11:33 AM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



MikeNesterNR wrote:
wrigleykid wrote: yeah and not just Aiken...the Asstros signed Nix and then rescinded that offer as well...but heres the real kicker

The Astros, if they fail to sign Aiken, would lose his assigned bonus value of $7,922,100. If they then signed Nix, they would exceed the maximum they are allowed to spend in the first round 10 rounds of the 2014 draft, triggering the loss of at least one future pick.

both Nix and Aiken have the same agent...not the smartest move by this team.
And if they don't sign him they get the # 2 overall pick next year. So don't feel too bad for the Astros.
I dont...I feel bad for the kids getting screwed..
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Posted: 7/15/2014 11:34 AM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



MikeNesterNR wrote:
wrigleykid wrote: yeah and not just Aiken...the Asstros signed Nix and then rescinded that offer as well...but heres the real kicker

The Astros, if they fail to sign Aiken, would lose his assigned bonus value of $7,922,100. If they then signed Nix, they would exceed the maximum they are allowed to spend in the first round 10 rounds of the 2014 draft, triggering the loss of at least one future pick.

both Nix and Aiken have the same agent...not the smartest move by this team.
And if they don't sign him they get the # 2 overall pick next year. So don't feel too bad for the Astros.
True, but if they lose Aiken (and his slot money), they obviously then cannot overslot Nix, and if that deal falls through, they don't get a "make good" on that one. This is a lower round pick, but it is an asset I'm sure they would prefer not to lose.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 1:16 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 


Is there a rule that a team has to make a good-faith effort to sign a player in order to get a compensatory pick in the next draft? It would seem like an interesting strategy to leave a kid intentionally unsigned with the hopes of getting a pick in a draft with more talent. Are there any barriers in place for a team adopting this strategy?
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Posted: 7/15/2014 1:45 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



tautology wrote: Is there a rule that a team has to make a good-faith effort to sign a player in order to get a compensatory pick in the next draft? It would seem like an interesting strategy to leave a kid intentionally unsigned with the hopes of getting a pick in a draft with more talent. Are there any barriers in place for a team adopting this strategy?
From my understudying there's a minimum offer that has to be made to ensure compensation, not sure of percentage but from what I've read, Astros have met that amount. Yes, under this structure you could employ that stategy if you thought next draft had better talent.

Last edited 7/15/2014 1:46 PM by MikeNesterNR

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Posted: 7/15/2014 2:07 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 


Well that didn't take long for teams to find a way to abuse this new system.  However, if that is indeed what the Astros are trying to do, it's not very smart.  A lot of people will be turned off by this maneuver.  Agents, free agents, future draft prospects, etc.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 2:19 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



flatball8 wrote: Well that didn't take long for teams to find a way to abuse this new system.  However, if that is indeed what the Astros are trying to do, it's not very smart.  A lot of people will be turned off by this maneuver.  Agents, free agents, future draft prospects, etc.
Yep
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Posted: 7/15/2014 2:53 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 


Now we negotiate a deal with Schwarber who was a consensus pick ranging between 20 to 30 by all scouting bureaus prior to the draft. Basically we will pay you 1M more than everyone thinks your worth if you take 1.5M less then what the 4th best prospect should get paid. Yeah I would say the draft slot value are process is broken.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 3:04 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



msqboxer2011 wrote: Now we negotiate a deal with Schwarber who was a consensus pick ranging between 20 to 30 by all scouting bureaus prior to the draft. Basically we will pay you 1M more than everyone thinks your worth if you take 1.5M less then what the 4th best prospect should get paid. Yeah I would say the draft slot value are process is broken.
All rule sets have quirks, holes, etc. that teams can try to exploit to their advantage. The Cubs seem to be good at finding and using these loopholes, which is expected given the FOs success at leveraging loopholes under the previous CBA.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 3:13 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



msqboxer2011 wrote: Now we negotiate a deal with Schwarber who was a consensus pick ranging between 20 to 30 by all scouting bureaus prior to the draft. Basically we will pay you 1M more than everyone thinks your worth if you take 1.5M less then what the 4th best prospect should get paid. Yeah I would say the draft slot value are process is broken.
Schwarber and the Cubs would disagree. Who is to say where the Cubs had him slotted on their board? If the Cubs are dead set against drafting a pitcher in the first round then Schwarber is most definitely in their top 7 or 8. It could simply be that what the Cubs target is different than the consensus and therefore can under slot and reap the benefits later in the draft.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 3:34 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



absolutebadger wrote:
msqboxer2011 wrote: Now we negotiate a deal with Schwarber who was a consensus pick ranging between 20 to 30 by all scouting bureaus prior to the draft. Basically we will pay you 1M more than everyone thinks your worth if you take 1.5M less then what the 4th best prospect should get paid. Yeah I would say the draft slot value are process is broken.
Schwarber and the Cubs would disagree. Who is to say where the Cubs had him slotted on their board? If the Cubs are dead set against drafting a pitcher in the first round then Schwarber is most definitely in their top 7 or 8. It could simply be that what the Cubs target is different than the consensus and therefore can under slot and reap the benefits later in the draft.
I think that is exactly what they did. They had Schwarber rated a lot higher than most teams. Since most teams had Schwarber rated lower [and Schwarber and his agent knew this], the Cubs were able to negotiate a deal for Schwarber below slot and use the difference to help the team. Used the rules to their advantage to get the guy they wanted AND get slot money for later rounds.

In cases where they had a guy rated highly that other teams ALSO rated highly, they still picked the best guy on their board, but then had to pay slot (Bryant). 

In both cases above, it is hard to argue thus far with the results.

I'm not sure how this is unfair or how to fix it. MAKE the drafting team pay the guy the slot value? Teams that have high draft picks and corresponding slot allowances SHOULD be able to leverage those however they want to improve their team. That is the point, after all, to benefit the bad teams more to help add parity to MLB, right?
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Posted: 7/15/2014 4:13 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 


The only solution I can see is like the NFL's. Have hard slot values but allow teams to trade draft pick slots. That way with a guy like Schwarber, if the rest of baseball had him rated 20+ the Cubs would have traded down and got more picks and paid him $2M.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 5:05 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



msqboxer2011 wrote: The only solution I can see is like the NFL's. Have hard slot values but allow teams to trade draft pick slots. That way with a guy like Schwarber, if the rest of baseball had him rated 20+ the Cubs would have traded down and got more picks and paid him $2M.
I think MLB is heading that way with teams now having the ability to trade comp picks and international slot $$$. Up until now, the owners seem to have been afraid of (a) Rich teams like the Yankees finding some way to acquire/buy top draft picks year after year, and/or (b) Dumb teams trading away top picks year after year. For their part, the NBA adopted the "Stepien" rule to protect teams from themselves (i.e., you're not allowed to trade away your 1st-round pick in two consecutive drafts.) Maybe MLB can figure out away to allow some flexibility while still maintaining the draft's intended purpose...but then again, we are talking about Uncle Bud here. ohlordohlordohlordohlord

http://basketball.about.com/od...tepien-rule.htm
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Posted: 7/15/2014 6:37 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



Grandpaboy1967 wrote:
but then again, we are talking about Uncle Bud here.

Selig retires after this season. Lets see who the next commissioner is and if he is just looking out for the owners or will he have a new innovative vision for the future of baseball.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 6:51 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



Grandpaboy1967 wrote:
msqboxer2011 wrote: The only solution I can see is like the NFL's. Have hard slot values but allow teams to trade draft pick slots. That way with a guy like Schwarber, if the rest of baseball had him rated 20+ the Cubs would have traded down and got more picks and paid him $2M.
I think MLB is heading that way with teams now having the ability to trade comp picks and international slot $$$. Up until now, the owners seem to have been afraid of (a) Rich teams like the Yankees finding some way to acquire/buy top draft picks year after year, and/or (b) Dumb teams trading away top picks year after year. For their part, the NBA adopted the "Stepien" rule to protect teams from themselves (i.e., you're not allowed to trade away your 1st-round pick in two consecutive drafts.) Maybe MLB can figure out away to allow some flexibility while still maintaining the draft's intended purpose...but then again, we are talking about Uncle Bud here. ohlordohlordohlordohlord

http://basketball.about.com/od...tepien-rule.htm
It could work, but I think for it to be successful, players would have to declare for the draft, and these players would then have to forgo college and sign no matter where they are drafted. Like if football, if you declare and hire an agent, your college eligibility ends.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 7:47 PM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



HomerInGloamin wrote:
Grandpaboy1967 wrote:
but then again, we are talking about Uncle Bud here.

Selig retires after this season. Lets see who the next commissioner is and if he is just looking out for the owners or will he have a new innovative vision for the future of baseball.
The idea of an independent commissioner ended when the owners sh*tcanned Fay Vincent--therefore the new commissioner will, by definition, be an employee (and stooge) of said owners. Maybe he or she will be a smarter or more capable stooge, but a stooge they will be. Res ipsa loquitur...
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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:51 AM

Re: Astros really screwing the pooch 



absolutebadger wrote:
Grandpaboy1967 wrote:
msqboxer2011 wrote: The only solution I can see is like the NFL's. Have hard slot values but allow teams to trade draft pick slots. That way with a guy like Schwarber, if the rest of baseball had him rated 20+ the Cubs would have traded down and got more picks and paid him $2M.
I think MLB is heading that way with teams now having the ability to trade comp picks and international slot $$$. Up until now, the owners seem to have been afraid of (a) Rich teams like the Yankees finding some way to acquire/buy top draft picks year after year, and/or (b) Dumb teams trading away top picks year after year. For their part, the NBA adopted the "Stepien" rule to protect teams from themselves (i.e., you're not allowed to trade away your 1st-round pick in two consecutive drafts.) Maybe MLB can figure out away to allow some flexibility while still maintaining the draft's intended purpose...but then again, we are talking about Uncle Bud here. ohlordohlordohlordohlord

http://basketball.about.com/od...tepien-rule.htm
It could work, but I think for it to be successful, players would have to declare for the draft, and these players would then have to forgo college and sign no matter where they are drafted. Like if football, if you declare and hire an agent, your college eligibility ends.
Not sure you can do that with a draft that has 40 rounds.  Way too much uncertainty.
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