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Marmol again and again and again

Posted: 5/4/2013 7:06 PM

Marmol again and again and again 


I've posted regarding Marmol here before but one last time I must put forth an opinion. We would be better off paying him and letting him stay home. Wildness and/or homeruns allowed (back to back sometimes) continue. What in the world is Svuem thinking? If you must pitch him please choose meaningless situations. The man can't handle any pressure. We have a core of players that could develop as the year progresses----------- Don't tie there hands.
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Posted: 5/4/2013 8:10 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 


Dale can't hide everyone in the bullpen.  Marmol has actually been ok in the setup role, but I do think you need to have a quick trigger finger when Marmol is in the game.  If he doesn't have it, it's pretty apparent very early.  Might be wise to have someone ready to go a little earlier, but who that person is..i dunno.

Fujikawa will be back soon..he might be ok.
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Posted: 5/5/2013 7:30 AM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 


Fuji is suppose to pitch today at Iowa. He's on rehab. Unfortunately, there is no one the Cubs have in their minor league system that could come up and pitch. I was hoping Yoanner Negrin, a 28-year-old Cuban defector, might be the answer. He started the year (AAA IOWA) with 9.1 innings of scoreless relief with 13 strikeouts. Last four games he's given up 12 hits and 5 runs in 4.1 innings. He has 18 strikeouts and three walks. I've seen enough of Marmol but as far as the bullpen goes, he's one of the best they've got in the organization. Sad but true.
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Posted: 5/5/2013 11:29 AM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 


I would have done the Haren deal. Rather have a starter you can try and trade over a relief pitcher.

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Posted: 5/5/2013 11:37 AM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



cubs2007 wrote:

I would have done the Haren deal. Rather have a starter you can try and trade over a relief pitcher.


Of course you would have, and wondered why we continue to acquire pitchers coming off injury.
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Posted: 5/5/2013 12:09 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



KatieCubFan wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:

I would have done the Haren deal. Rather have a starter you can try and trade over a relief pitcher.


Of course you would have, and wondered why we continue to acquire pitchers coming off injury.
I said at the time of the attempted trade that if you had a choice that a starter would have more value than a relief pitcher. FYI - The injured pitcher has not missed a start.
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Posted: 5/5/2013 1:31 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



cubs2007 wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:

I would have done the Haren deal. Rather have a starter you can try and trade over a relief pitcher.


Of course you would have, and wondered why we continue to acquire pitchers coming off injury.
I said at the time of the attempted trade that if you had a choice that a starter would have more value than a relief pitcher. FYI - The injured pitcher has not missed a start.
But why take issue with other starting pitchers they took flyers on?
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Posted: 5/5/2013 7:08 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



KatieCubFan wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:

I would have done the Haren deal. Rather have a starter you can try and trade over a relief pitcher.


Of course you would have, and wondered why we continue to acquire pitchers coming off injury.
I said at the time of the attempted trade that if you had a choice that a starter would have more value than a relief pitcher. FYI - The injured pitcher has not missed a start.
But why take issue with other starting pitchers they took flyers on?
Because he is a *******. Add this to his list of awesome. Rip Cubs for taking players on injured players except it helps my argument.
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Posted: 5/5/2013 7:45 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 


Dale isn't the smartest manager either. Who would keep saying he has good stuff. One game out of 7. Pitch someone else please.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:03 AM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 


If the haven't already and we haven't heard about it.........PUT HIM ON WAIVERS and hope someone bites on him.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:09 AM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



KatieCubFan wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:

I would have done the Haren deal. Rather have a starter you can try and trade over a relief pitcher.


Of course you would have, and wondered why we continue to acquire pitchers coming off injury.
I said at the time of the attempted trade that if you had a choice that a starter would have more value than a relief pitcher. FYI - The injured pitcher has not missed a start.
But why take issue with other starting pitchers they took flyers on?
Each transaction is a unique decision. If you want to start a thread on Baker or Vizcaino or other injured pitchers we could discuss separately.

My opinion is the Cubs used the medicals as an excuse to not increase payroll by bring in Haren. Both Haren were short term assets that you were hoping to increase value to obtain a long term asset. My premise was a starting pitcher has more value than a relief pitcher. Haren has proven to be healthy enough to not miss any starts.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:22 AM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



cubs2007 wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:

I would have done the Haren deal. Rather have a starter you can try and trade over a relief pitcher.


Of course you would have, and wondered why we continue to acquire pitchers coming off injury.
I said at the time of the attempted trade that if you had a choice that a starter would have more value than a relief pitcher. FYI - The injured pitcher has not missed a start.
But why take issue with other starting pitchers they took flyers on?
Each transaction is a unique decision. If you want to start a thread on Baker or Vizcaino or other injured pitchers we could discuss separately.

My opinion is the Cubs used the medicals as an excuse to not increase payroll by bring in Haren. Both Haren were short term assets that you were hoping to increase value to obtain a long term asset. My premise was a starting pitcher has more value than a relief pitcher. Haren has proven to be healthy enough to not miss any starts.
If they had traded for Haren, they would not have needed an extra starter and hence would not have signed Baker, for example, bringing them to a wash, salary-wise. Clearly they were overly optimistic on Baker's health, but consider that if Haren were starting for the Cubs this year, he would be displacing likely Villanueva, who has done a really good job. Hence Haren would have hurt the team possibly as much as Marmol. As for a better trade chip...Haren has very little value in a trade, just like Marmol.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 8:29 AM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



SportsGoblin wrote:
If they had traded for Haren, they would not have needed an extra starter and hence would not have signed Baker, for example, bringing them to a wash, salary-wise. Clearly they were overly optimistic on Baker's health, but consider that if Haren were starting for the Cubs this year, he would be displacing likely Villanueva, who has done a really good job. Hence Haren would have hurt the team possibly as much as Marmol. As for a better trade chip...Haren has very little value in a trade, just like Marmol.
I rather have Haren than Baker and then you could have replaced Marmol with a better relief option.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:16 AM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
If they had traded for Haren, they would not have needed an extra starter and hence would not have signed Baker, for example, bringing them to a wash, salary-wise. Clearly they were overly optimistic on Baker's health, but consider that if Haren were starting for the Cubs this year, he would be displacing likely Villanueva, who has done a really good job. Hence Haren would have hurt the team possibly as much as Marmol. As for a better trade chip...Haren has very little value in a trade, just like Marmol.
I rather have Haren than Baker and then you could have replaced Marmol with a better relief option.
Odd as it sounds, I would actually still prefer to have Baker over Haren. By Baker not playing, Villaneuva has instead pitched and done well. He likely can be flipped for prospects, or they could even keep him if they want, since he is on a 2-yr deal. If Baker is healthy soon enough, he might get flipped as well.

Haren has pitched, just not overly well. He is the stop-gap journeyman you said you hate. He hasn't pitched well enough to be traded, but because of the expensive contract they would have to play him, etc. He isn't part of their future.

Based on the other relief options on their team currently (Camp, Loe, etc.) I'm not sure they have that many better relief options than Marmol. Russell and Gregg [until he implodes], but that seems to be it for truly reliable. Rondon I still have hopes for, as with Bowden, but definitely no consistency there.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 9:38 AM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



SportsGoblin wrote:
 
Odd as it sounds, I would actually still prefer to have Baker over Haren. By Baker not playing, Villaneuva has instead pitched and done well. He likely can be flipped for prospects, or they could even keep him if they want, since he is on a 2-yr deal. If Baker is healthy soon enough, he might get flipped as well.

Haren has pitched, just not overly well. He is the stop-gap journeyman you said you hate. He hasn't pitched well enough to be traded, but because of the expensive contract they would have to play him, etc. He isn't part of their future.

Based on the other relief options on their team currently (Camp, Loe, etc.) I'm not sure they have that many better relief options than Marmol. Russell and Gregg [until he implodes], but that seems to be it for truly reliable. Rondon I still have hopes for, as with Bowden, but definitely no consistency there.
You could have kept Villanueva in the rotation and put Feldman in the bullpen. The front office seems to be getting a pass for the poor bullpen construction. Having to add Loe and Gregg this early indicates some bad decisions and lack of org depth.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 2:21 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
If they had traded for Haren, they would not have needed an extra starter and hence would not have signed Baker, for example, bringing them to a wash, salary-wise. Clearly they were overly optimistic on Baker's health, but consider that if Haren were starting for the Cubs this year, he would be displacing likely Villanueva, who has done a really good job. Hence Haren would have hurt the team possibly as much as Marmol. As for a better trade chip...Haren has very little value in a trade, just like Marmol.
I rather have Haren than Baker and then you could have replaced Marmol with a better relief option.
Odd as it sounds, I would actually still prefer to have Baker over Haren. By Baker not playing, Villaneuva has instead pitched and done well. He likely can be flipped for prospects, or they could even keep him if they want, since he is on a 2-yr deal. If Baker is healthy soon enough, he might get flipped as well.

Haren has pitched, just not overly well. He is the stop-gap journeyman you said you hate. He hasn't pitched well enough to be traded, but because of the expensive contract they would have to play him, etc. He isn't part of their future.

Based on the other relief options on their team currently (Camp, Loe, etc.) I'm not sure they have that many better relief options than Marmol. Russell and Gregg [until he implodes], but that seems to be it for truly reliable. Rondon I still have hopes for, as with Bowden, but definitely no consistency there.
Villaneuva your stuck with at 2yr $10M unless you want A Ball prospects....again someone thinking that we have tradeable parts...
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Posted: 5/6/2013 2:38 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



msqboxer2011 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
If they had traded for Haren, they would not have needed an extra starter and hence would not have signed Baker, for example, bringing them to a wash, salary-wise. Clearly they were overly optimistic on Baker's health, but consider that if Haren were starting for the Cubs this year, he would be displacing likely Villanueva, who has done a really good job. Hence Haren would have hurt the team possibly as much as Marmol. As for a better trade chip...Haren has very little value in a trade, just like Marmol.
I rather have Haren than Baker and then you could have replaced Marmol with a better relief option.
Odd as it sounds, I would actually still prefer to have Baker over Haren. By Baker not playing, Villaneuva has instead pitched and done well. He likely can be flipped for prospects, or they could even keep him if they want, since he is on a 2-yr deal. If Baker is healthy soon enough, he might get flipped as well.

Haren has pitched, just not overly well. He is the stop-gap journeyman you said you hate. He hasn't pitched well enough to be traded, but because of the expensive contract they would have to play him, etc. He isn't part of their future.

Based on the other relief options on their team currently (Camp, Loe, etc.) I'm not sure they have that many better relief options than Marmol. Russell and Gregg [until he implodes], but that seems to be it for truly reliable. Rondon I still have hopes for, as with Bowden, but definitely no consistency there.
Villaneuva your stuck with at 2yr $10M unless you want A Ball prospects....again someone thinking that we have tradeable parts...
Stuck with? We talking about the Carlos Villanueva with a 2.85 ERA? Perhaps your standards are a bit too high? If Villanueva keeps it up, the Cubs can get something pretty good for him if they want to. Again, he is under contract for 2014, so they might want to keep him.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 2:50 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
 
Odd as it sounds, I would actually still prefer to have Baker over Haren. By Baker not playing, Villaneuva has instead pitched and done well. He likely can be flipped for prospects, or they could even keep him if they want, since he is on a 2-yr deal. If Baker is healthy soon enough, he might get flipped as well.

Haren has pitched, just not overly well. He is the stop-gap journeyman you said you hate. He hasn't pitched well enough to be traded, but because of the expensive contract they would have to play him, etc. He isn't part of their future.

Based on the other relief options on their team currently (Camp, Loe, etc.) I'm not sure they have that many better relief options than Marmol. Russell and Gregg [until he implodes], but that seems to be it for truly reliable. Rondon I still have hopes for, as with Bowden, but definitely no consistency there.
You could have kept Villanueva in the rotation and put Feldman in the bullpen. The front office seems to be getting a pass for the poor bullpen construction. Having to add Loe and Gregg this early indicates some bad decisions and lack of org depth.
Feldman has a 3.34 ERA. Why would I want to replace that with Haren's 5+?
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Posted: 5/6/2013 2:55 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



SportsGoblin wrote:
 
Feldman has a 3.34 ERA. Why would I want to replace that with Haren's 5+?

Have you noticed how bad the bullpen is ? And again the point was to get rid of an over priced and under performing Marmol.
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Posted: 5/6/2013 5:36 PM

Re: Marmol again and again and again 



SportsGoblin wrote: Stuck with? We talking about the Carlos Villanueva with a 2.85 ERA? Perhaps your standards are a bit too high? If Villanueva keeps it up, the Cubs can get something pretty good for him if they want to. Again, he is under contract for 2014, so they might want to keep him.

Yeah no fooling. I am sure the Cubs are glad they are stuck with a guy who has a 2.85 ERA and can pitch both as a starter and out of the pen.

When things go bad for a team, there are no shortage of idiots that come out of the woodworks.
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