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pre-spring training projected 25 man...

Posted: 2/17/2013 3:11 PM

pre-spring training projected 25 man... 


I've decided to start paying attention again since it's spring training time.  Something just looks off with the overall construction with the OF/IF.  They don't have enough bodies that make sense for an opening day roster.  Obviously the young guys who have potential won't be on the bench, they'll be in the minors.  So that leaves me with this question.......how in the hell do they have enough capable bodies to put together a 25 man right now?  I know some were surprised with the Scott Hariston deal, but that was pretty mandatory considering who they have currently.  

OF as of right now......

Soriano
Dejesus (everyday CF? really?)  He can't hit lefites and you would think his defensive value goes down in CF. 
Hariston, great against lefties, not much against righties.  
Scherholtz
???? for 5th OFer.  

I would think to round this out you would need someone capable of playing CF and preferably a RH bat considering Dejesus shouldn't be hitting against LH pitching.

INF:

Rizzo
Barney
Stewart
Castro
Valbuena 
then maybe Lillibridge, who can also play OF.  

So they would have a bench of.....

Scherholtz
Lillibridge
Valbuena
Navarro
???? 

No one I see is a viable candidate for that 5th guy on the bench to be honest. Also, that bench looks horrible, so whoever gets that 5th needs to be an impactful player.  I would think they still need to go out and get another OFer.  Especially considering Dejesus and Hariston are more platoon player types.  Hariston has a platoon partner at least if needed, Dejesus does not.  So the bench is horrible and Dejesus is expected to play everyday in CF?  And who is that 5th guy on the bench?
"There are two kinds of people in the world, those with a rope around the neck and the people who have the job of doing the cutting."-Tuco
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:11 PM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 


+1- DeJesus and Hairston work as a RF platoon, but neither should be anywhere near CF. The Scheirholtz signing was all but useless.
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Posted: 2/17/2013 8:04 PM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



ILLINIrob83 wrote: I've decided to start paying attention again since it's spring training time.  Something just looks off with the overall construction with the OF/IF.  They don't have enough bodies that make sense for an opening day roster.  Obviously the young guys who have potential won't be on the bench, they'll be in the minors.  So that leaves me with this question.......how in the hell do they have enough capable bodies to put together a 25 man right now?  I know some were surprised with the Scott Hariston deal, but that was pretty mandatory considering who they have currently.  

OF as of right now......

Soriano
Dejesus (everyday CF? really?)  He can't hit lefites and you would think his defensive value goes down in CF. 
Hariston, great against lefties, not much against righties.  
Scherholtz
???? for 5th OFer.  

I would think to round this out you would need someone capable of playing CF and preferably a RH bat considering Dejesus shouldn't be hitting against LH pitching.

INF:

Rizzo
Barney
Stewart
Castro
Valbuena 
then maybe Lillibridge, who can also play OF.  

So they would have a bench of.....

Scherholtz
Lillibridge
Valbuena
Navarro
???? 

No one I see is a viable candidate for that 5th guy on the bench to be honest. Also, that bench looks horrible, so whoever gets that 5th needs to be an impactful player.  I would think they still need to go out and get another OFer.  Especially considering Dejesus and Hariston are more platoon player types.  Hariston has a platoon partner at least if needed, Dejesus does not.  So the bench is horrible and Dejesus is expected to play everyday in CF?  And who is that 5th guy on the bench?
Sappelt is the 5th OF
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Posted: 2/17/2013 8:35 PM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



cubs2007 wrote:
ILLINIrob83 wrote: I've decided to start paying attention again since it's spring training time.  Something just looks off with the overall construction with the OF/IF.  They don't have enough bodies that make sense for an opening day roster.  Obviously the young guys who have potential won't be on the bench, they'll be in the minors.  So that leaves me with this question.......how in the hell do they have enough capable bodies to put together a 25 man right now?  I know some were surprised with the Scott Hariston deal, but that was pretty mandatory considering who they have currently.  

OF as of right now......

Soriano
Dejesus (everyday CF? really?)  He can't hit lefites and you would think his defensive value goes down in CF. 
Hariston, great against lefties, not much against righties.  
Scherholtz
???? for 5th OFer.  

I would think to round this out you would need someone capable of playing CF and preferably a RH bat considering Dejesus shouldn't be hitting against LH pitching.

INF:

Rizzo
Barney
Stewart
Castro
Valbuena 
then maybe Lillibridge, who can also play OF.  

So they would have a bench of.....

Scherholtz
Lillibridge
Valbuena
Navarro
???? 

No one I see is a viable candidate for that 5th guy on the bench to be honest. Also, that bench looks horrible, so whoever gets that 5th needs to be an impactful player.  I would think they still need to go out and get another OFer.  Especially considering Dejesus and Hariston are more platoon player types.  Hariston has a platoon partner at least if needed, Dejesus does not.  So the bench is horrible and Dejesus is expected to play everyday in CF?  And who is that 5th guy on the bench?
Sappelt is the 5th
Another one with almost no CF experience
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Posted: 2/18/2013 12:01 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 


Yuck...hopefully we have some positive surprises during the season
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Posted: 2/18/2013 8:03 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



absolutebadger wrote:
Sappelt is the 5th
Another one with almost no CF experience
In the minors Sappelt played 389 games in CF, 58 in LF and 84 in RF.
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Posted: 2/18/2013 8:28 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 


Hairston isn't a stranger to CF.  Trouble is he can't sub for DeJesus and the redundant Scheurholz at the same time.
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Posted: 2/18/2013 8:52 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



KatieCubFan wrote: Hairston isn't a stranger to CF.  Trouble is he can't sub for DeJesus and the redundant Scheurholz at the same time.
Schierholtz isn't redundant.

When a righty is pitching, your outfield is Soriano, DeJesus, Schierholtz. When a lefty is pitching, it is Soriano, Sappelt and Hairston. Hairston did hit righties good enough last year (.739 OPS) that you can occasionally bat him against righties. But I expect Schierholtz to see a lot of ABs against righties.
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Posted: 2/18/2013 11:10 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



SportsGoblin wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote: Hairston isn't a stranger to CF.  Trouble is he can't sub for DeJesus and the redundant Scheurholz at the same time.
Schierholtz isn't redundant.

When a righty is pitching, your outfield is Soriano, DeJesus, Schierholtz. When a lefty is pitching, it is Soriano, Sappelt and Hairston. Hairston did hit righties good enough last year (.739 OPS) that you can occasionally bat him against righties. But I expect Schierholtz to see a lot of ABs against righties.
The only real problem with the outfield right now is that outside of Soriano, there really isn't any power. Hairston got a bit but that's about it. The one thing I wanted the Cubs to find this offseason in FA and weren't able too was a corner outfielder with some pop in his bat that fit into their short/long term plans. Never materialized and was their one true glaring hole this offseason.

Last edited 2/18/2013 11:30 AM by PorkChopExpress12

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Posted: 2/18/2013 1:09 PM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 


Vegas has set the Cubs over/under for wins at 73 for 2013
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Posted: 2/18/2013 1:46 PM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



PorkChopExpress12 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote: Hairston isn't a stranger to CF.  Trouble is he can't sub for DeJesus and the redundant Scheurholz at the same time.
Schierholtz isn't redundant.

When a righty is pitching, your outfield is Soriano, DeJesus, Schierholtz. When a lefty is pitching, it is Soriano, Sappelt and Hairston. Hairston did hit righties good enough last year (.739 OPS) that you can occasionally bat him against righties. But I expect Schierholtz to see a lot of ABs against righties.
The only real problem with the outfield right now is that outside of Soriano, there really isn't any power. Hairston got a bit but that's about it. The one thing I wanted the Cubs to find this offseason in FA and weren't able too was a corner outfielder with some pop in his bat that fit into their short/long term plans. Never materialized and was their one true glaring hole this offseason.
It does test how much one believes in OPS over HRs to be sure. By the numbers, the OPS will be just fine if they platoon like it looks they are planning to. The HR will be low. No two ways about that.
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Posted: 2/18/2013 2:04 PM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



SportsGoblin wrote:
PorkChopExpress12 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote: Hairston isn't a stranger to CF.  Trouble is he can't sub for DeJesus and the redundant Scheurholz at the same time.
Schierholtz isn't redundant.

When a righty is pitching, your outfield is Soriano, DeJesus, Schierholtz. When a lefty is pitching, it is Soriano, Sappelt and Hairston. Hairston did hit righties good enough last year (.739 OPS) that you can occasionally bat him against righties. But I expect Schierholtz to see a lot of ABs against righties.
The only real problem with the outfield right now is that outside of Soriano, there really isn't any power. Hairston got a bit but that's about it. The one thing I wanted the Cubs to find this offseason in FA and weren't able too was a corner outfielder with some pop in his bat that fit into their short/long term plans. Never materialized and was their one true glaring hole this offseason.
It does test how much one believes in OPS over HRs to be sure. By the numbers, the OPS will be just fine if they platoon like it looks they are planning to. The HR will be low. No two ways about that.

Good point.  It will be interesting to watch defensively too.  Just as an example, I had targeted Jason Kubel as a power guy that could probably be acquired for spare parts considering how anxious Arizona seems to be to get rid of players.  But when you dive into the numbers, he's a horrible defender and actually had a lower WAR than Hairston last year, despite 30 homers and a .500 SLG %.
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Posted: 2/18/2013 3:50 PM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



DoubleDown11 wrote:
Good point.  It will be interesting to watch defensively too.  Just as an example, I had targeted Jason Kubel as a power guy that could probably be acquired for spare parts considering how anxious Arizona seems to be to get rid of players.  But when you dive into the numbers, he's a horrible defender and actually had a lower WAR than Hairston last year, despite 30 homers and a .500 SLG %.
It is a slight improvement over last year but the front office has not found a long term solution for the OF. None of the current OF's will be part of a playoff team.
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Posted: 2/27/2013 7:26 PM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



absolutebadger wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
ILLINIrob83 wrote: I've decided to start paying attention again since it's spring training time.  Something just looks off with the overall construction with the OF/IF.  They don't have enough bodies that make sense for an opening day roster.  Obviously the young guys who have potential won't be on the bench, they'll be in the minors.  So that leaves me with this question.......how in the hell do they have enough capable bodies to put together a 25 man right now?  I know some were surprised with the Scott Hariston deal, but that was pretty mandatory considering who they have currently.  

OF as of right now......

Soriano
Dejesus (everyday CF? really?)  He can't hit lefites and you would think his defensive value goes down in CF. 
Hariston, great against lefties, not much against righties.  
Scherholtz
???? for 5th OFer.  

I would think to round this out you would need someone capable of playing CF and preferably a RH bat considering Dejesus shouldn't be hitting against LH pitching.

INF:

Rizzo
Barney
Stewart
Castro
Valbuena 
then maybe Lillibridge, who can also play OF.  

So they would have a bench of.....

Scherholtz
Lillibridge
Valbuena
Navarro
???? 

No one I see is a viable candidate for that 5th guy on the bench to be honest. Also, that bench looks horrible, so whoever gets that 5th needs to be an impactful player.  I would think they still need to go out and get another OFer.  Especially considering Dejesus and Hariston are more platoon player types.  Hariston has a platoon partner at least if needed, Dejesus does not.  So the bench is horrible and Dejesus is expected to play everyday in CF?  And who is that 5th guy on the bench?
Sappelt is the 5th
Another one with almost no CF experience
Sappelt will probably make the 25, but consider me unimpressed with that decision.  The guy couldn't post a .700 OPS in a big sample at Iowa.  Not good for an OFer.  Considering the options, and more than likely a throwaway season, give Brett Jackson the starting CF job to see if he is legit.  At least give him the experience.....probably not going to happen right away though considering the construction of this roster.
"There are two kinds of people in the world, those with a rope around the neck and the people who have the job of doing the cutting."-Tuco
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Posted: 2/28/2013 8:12 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



ILLINIrob83 wrote:
Sappelt will probably make the 25, but consider me unimpressed with that decision.  The guy couldn't post a .700 OPS in a big sample at Iowa.  Not good for an OFer.  Considering the options, and more than likely a throwaway season, give Brett Jackson the starting CF job to see if he is legit.  At least give him the experience.....probably not going to happen right away though considering the construction of this roster.
I thought Jackson should have been given the opportunity last season that was truly a throwaway year. But losing a year of control and financial decisions seemed to take priority over evaluating your top prospect and making long term decisions based on his actual production. Maybe the front office isn't high on Jackson and I would expect him to spend most the year in AAA.
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Posted: 2/28/2013 8:50 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



cubs2007 wrote:
ILLINIrob83 wrote:
Sappelt will probably make the 25, but consider me unimpressed with that decision.  The guy couldn't post a .700 OPS in a big sample at Iowa.  Not good for an OFer.  Considering the options, and more than likely a throwaway season, give Brett Jackson the starting CF job to see if he is legit.  At least give him the experience.....probably not going to happen right away though considering the construction of this roster.
I thought Jackson should have been given the opportunity last season that was truly a throwaway year. But losing a year of control and financial decisions seemed to take priority over evaluating your top prospect and making long term decisions based on his actual production. Maybe the front office isn't high on Jackson and I would expect him to spend most the year in AAA.
I think Jackson had some major work to do to correct his swing. They felt that that was something he could not get the individualized attention, repetitions, etc. needed while also getting major league at bats. It also served as the stick in the stick-and-carrot incentive model. He got the call up so he could "see" his approach wouldn't work in the majors. Having failed, he then was sent down, where he was now more willing to change a swing that had worked for him up to that point.

Obviously, if he shows positive results from it to start AAA, he will get called up when he can get regular playing time...likely when DeJesus or Soriano or someone is traded.
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Posted: 2/28/2013 9:14 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
ILLINIrob83 wrote:
Sappelt will probably make the 25, but consider me unimpressed with that decision.  The guy couldn't post a .700 OPS in a big sample at Iowa.  Not good for an OFer.  Considering the options, and more than likely a throwaway season, give Brett Jackson the starting CF job to see if he is legit.  At least give him the experience.....probably not going to happen right away though considering the construction of this roster.
I thought Jackson should have been given the opportunity last season that was truly a throwaway year. But losing a year of control and financial decisions seemed to take priority over evaluating your top prospect and making long term decisions based on his actual production. Maybe the front office isn't high on Jackson and I would expect him to spend most the year in AAA.
I think Jackson had some major work to do to correct his swing. They felt that that was something he could not get the individualized attention, repetitions, etc. needed while also getting major league at bats. It also served as the stick in the stick-and-carrot incentive model. He got the call up so he could "see" his approach wouldn't work in the majors. Having failed, he then was sent down, where he was now more willing to change a swing that had worked for him up to that point.

Obviously, if he shows positive results from it to start AAA, he will get called up when he can get regular playing time...likely when DeJesus or Soriano or someone is traded.
Go back to last spring training and Sveum was calling him major league ready. If you are throwing away the season last year was the time to evaluate. This will be an ongoing debate with other prospects as the front office decides how quickly to promote to the majors or keep in the minors to gain extra year of control and save money on financial concerns.
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Posted: 2/28/2013 9:30 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
ILLINIrob83 wrote:
Sappelt will probably make the 25, but consider me unimpressed with that decision.  The guy couldn't post a .700 OPS in a big sample at Iowa.  Not good for an OFer.  Considering the options, and more than likely a throwaway season, give Brett Jackson the starting CF job to see if he is legit.  At least give him the experience.....probably not going to happen right away though considering the construction of this roster.
I thought Jackson should have been given the opportunity last season that was truly a throwaway year. But losing a year of control and financial decisions seemed to take priority over evaluating your top prospect and making long term decisions based on his actual production. Maybe the front office isn't high on Jackson and I would expect him to spend most the year in AAA.
I think Jackson had some major work to do to correct his swing. They felt that that was something he could not get the individualized attention, repetitions, etc. needed while also getting major league at bats. It also served as the stick in the stick-and-carrot incentive model. He got the call up so he could "see" his approach wouldn't work in the majors. Having failed, he then was sent down, where he was now more willing to change a swing that had worked for him up to that point.

Obviously, if he shows positive results from it to start AAA, he will get called up when he can get regular playing time...likely when DeJesus or Soriano or someone is traded.
Go back to last spring training and Sveum was calling him major league ready. If you are throwing away the season last year was the time to evaluate. This will be an ongoing debate with other prospects as the front office decides how quickly to promote to the majors or keep in the minors to gain extra year of control and save money on financial concerns.
Do you really think Jackson was kept at AAA most of the season to save money? You don't need to face MLB pitching to be evaluated or dominated. Jackson was dominated by AAA pitching and would have lead the league (AAA) in K's with enough AB's. He simply was/is not ready. If he can cut the K's way down at AAA this season then he will get another shot.
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Posted: 2/28/2013 9:59 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



absolutebadger wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
ILLINIrob83 wrote:
Sappelt will probably make the 25, but consider me unimpressed with that decision.  The guy couldn't post a .700 OPS in a big sample at Iowa.  Not good for an OFer.  Considering the options, and more than likely a throwaway season, give Brett Jackson the starting CF job to see if he is legit.  At least give him the experience.....probably not going to happen right away though considering the construction of this roster.
I thought Jackson should have been given the opportunity last season that was truly a throwaway year. But losing a year of control and financial decisions seemed to take priority over evaluating your top prospect and making long term decisions based on his actual production. Maybe the front office isn't high on Jackson and I would expect him to spend most the year in AAA.
I think Jackson had some major work to do to correct his swing. They felt that that was something he could not get the individualized attention, repetitions, etc. needed while also getting major league at bats. It also served as the stick in the stick-and-carrot incentive model. He got the call up so he could "see" his approach wouldn't work in the majors. Having failed, he then was sent down, where he was now more willing to change a swing that had worked for him up to that point.

Obviously, if he shows positive results from it to start AAA, he will get called up when he can get regular playing time...likely when DeJesus or Soriano or someone is traded.
Go back to last spring training and Sveum was calling him major league ready. If you are throwing away the season last year was the time to evaluate. This will be an ongoing debate with other prospects as the front office decides how quickly to promote to the majors or keep in the minors to gain extra year of control and save money on financial concerns.
Do you really think Jackson was kept at AAA most of the season to save money? You don't need to face MLB pitching to be evaluated or dominated. Jackson was dominated by AAA pitching and would have lead the league (AAA) in K's with enough AB's. He simply was/is not ready. If he can cut the K's way down at AAA this season then he will get another shot.
+1 This is more the reason I think for Jackson. They saw the long, loopy swing and told him that wouldn't work in the majors. Yes, he had a high K-rate even in AAA, but was able to get enough OBP and OPS that he could still deny he had a problem. The call up showed him, it seems, that it wouldn't work in the majors. Same basic story with Rizzo. Hopefully similar results.

EDIT: And yes, Rizzo never had the high K-rates that Jackson did, so there is an obvious difference there.

Last edited 2/28/2013 9:59 AM by SportsGoblin

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Posted: 2/28/2013 10:05 AM

Re: pre-spring training projected 25 man... 



SportsGoblin wrote:
Do you really think Jackson was kept at AAA most of the season to save money? You don't need to face MLB pitching to be evaluated or dominated. Jackson was dominated by AAA pitching and would have lead the league (AAA) in K's with enough AB's. He simply was/is not ready. If he can cut the K's way down at AAA this season then he will get another shot.
+1 This is more the reason I think for Jackson. They saw the long, loopy swing and told him that wouldn't work in the majors. Yes, he had a high K-rate even in AAA, but was able to get enough OBP and OPS that he could still deny he had a problem. The call up showed him, it seems, that it wouldn't work in the majors. Same basic story with Rizzo. Hopefully similar results.

EDIT: And yes, Rizzo never had the high K-rates that Jackson did, so there is an obvious difference there.
Was the decision to keep Rizzo and Jackson in AAA after last year's spring training strictly a decision to work on their fundamentals or was part of the reason financial & to save a year of service time ?
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