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Cubs add more Sabermetrics

Posted: 2/2/2013 7:50 AM

Cubs add more Sabermetrics 


Old (couple days) news by now, but I did not see it posted, so will add here.

The Cubs have obtained the exclusive services of the infamous Tom Tango, the sabermetrician who invented Weight On-base Average (wOBA) and Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP).

LINK to MLBTraderumors Announcement

Here is the interview they posted with Tango:

ESPN Interview

For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree. There is such a thing as being able to use them better. As an aside, the article also briefly touches on what might the new OBP as far as getting value: Pitcher Health. I believe we discussed this before.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 8:59 AM

Re: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



SportsGoblin wrote: Old (couple days) news by now, but I did not see it posted, so will add here.

The Cubs have obtained the exclusive services of the infamous Tom Tango, the sabermetrician who invented Weight On-base Average (wOBA) and Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP).

LINK to MLBTraderumors Announcement

Here is the interview they posted with Tango:

ESPN Interview

For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree. There is such a thing as being able to use them better. As an aside, the article also briefly touches on what might the new OBP as far as getting value: Pitcher Health. I believe we discussed this before.

Where does it say the Cubs use stats better then every other team with their ivy league employess developing their own stats ?
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Posted: 2/4/2013 9:35 AM

Re: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote: Old (couple days) news by now, but I did not see it posted, so will add here.

The Cubs have obtained the exclusive services of the infamous Tom Tango, the sabermetrician who invented Weight On-base Average (wOBA) and Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP).

LINK to MLBTraderumors Announcement

Here is the interview they posted with Tango:

ESPN Interview

For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree. There is such a thing as being able to use them better. As an aside, the article also briefly touches on what might the new OBP as far as getting value: Pitcher Health. I believe we discussed this before.

Where does it say the Cubs use stats better then every other team with their ivy league employess developing their own stats ?
It doesn't. Not saying the Cubs do use stats better. Simply saying that between shelling out money for the Carmine 2.0 computer system, greatly expanding their staff to aid with this, hiring Tom Tango's exclusive services...they are clearly trying to obtain an advantage. Time will tell if they actually achieve that.

They also seem to be taking a lot of shots with injured pitchers, indicating that this might be an area they are looking to find an advantage.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 9:53 AM

Re: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote: Old (couple days) news by now, but I did not see it posted, so will add here.

The Cubs have obtained the exclusive services of the infamous Tom Tango, the sabermetrician who invented Weight On-base Average (wOBA) and Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP).

LINK to MLBTraderumors Announcement

Here is the interview they posted with Tango:

ESPN Interview

For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree. There is such a thing as being able to use them better. As an aside, the article also briefly touches on what might the new OBP as far as getting value: Pitcher Health. I believe we discussed this before.

Where does it say the Cubs use stats better then every other team with their ivy league employess developing their own stats ?

Where does it say that he said that?  Took you all of one post in this thread to literally create an argument out of thin air.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:18 AM

Re: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



DoubleDown11 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote: Old (couple days) news by now, but I did not see it posted, so will add here.

The Cubs have obtained the exclusive services of the infamous Tom Tango, the sabermetrician who invented Weight On-base Average (wOBA) and Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP).

LINK to MLBTraderumors Announcement

Here is the interview they posted with Tango:

ESPN Interview

For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree. There is such a thing as being able to use them better. As an aside, the article also briefly touches on what might the new OBP as far as getting value: Pitcher Health. I believe we discussed this before.

Where does it say the Cubs use stats better then every other team with their ivy league employess developing their own stats ?

Where does it say that he said that?  Took you all of one post in this thread to literally create an argument out of thin air.
For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:43 AM

Re: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



cubs2007 wrote:
DoubleDown11 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote: Old (couple days) news by now, but I did not see it posted, so will add here.

The Cubs have obtained the exclusive services of the infamous Tom Tango, the sabermetrician who invented Weight On-base Average (wOBA) and Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP).

LINK to MLBTraderumors Announcement

Here is the interview they posted with Tango:

ESPN Interview

For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree. There is such a thing as being able to use them better. As an aside, the article also briefly touches on what might the new OBP as far as getting value: Pitcher Health. I believe we discussed this before.

Where does it say the Cubs use stats better then every other team with their ivy league employess developing their own stats ?

Where does it say that he said that?  Took you all of one post in this thread to literally create an argument out of thin air.
For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree.
I disagree too.  Does that mean I think I have a sabermetric advantage?
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:08 AM

Re: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



cubs2007 wrote:
DoubleDown11 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote: Old (couple days) news by now, but I did not see it posted, so will add here.

The Cubs have obtained the exclusive services of the infamous Tom Tango, the sabermetrician who invented Weight On-base Average (wOBA) and Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP).

LINK to MLBTraderumors Announcement

Here is the interview they posted with Tango:

ESPN Interview

For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree. There is such a thing as being able to use them better. As an aside, the article also briefly touches on what might the new OBP as far as getting value: Pitcher Health. I believe we discussed this before.

Where does it say the Cubs use stats better then every other team with their ivy league employess developing their own stats ?

Where does it say that he said that?  Took you all of one post in this thread to literally create an argument out of thin air.
For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree.
Holy reading comprehension Batman. All this means is that not all front-offices are created equal sabermetrically and that it is possible to achieve an advantage here and that that is what the Cubs are trying to achieve.

Obviously, if the Cubs believed it was all the same, they would save their money on sabermetrics and instead spend it on something they think will deliver more value.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:15 AM

Re: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



SportsGoblin wrote:
Holy reading comprehension Batman. All this means is that not all front-offices are created equal sabermetrically and that it is possible to achieve an advantage here and that that is what the Cubs are trying to achieve.

Obviously, if the Cubs believed it was all the same, they would save their money on sabermetrics and instead spend it on something they think will deliver more value.
Do you think the Cubs have an advantage over other teams ?
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:33 AM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 


2007, You never cease to amaze me!! You've gotta do this stuff on purpose.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:42 AM

Re: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
Holy reading comprehension Batman. All this means is that not all front-offices are created equal sabermetrically and that it is possible to achieve an advantage here and that that is what the Cubs are trying to achieve.

Obviously, if the Cubs believed it was all the same, they would save their money on sabermetrics and instead spend it on something they think will deliver more value.
Do you think the Cubs have an advantage over other teams ?
Based on their recent additions, I believe they have an advantage over many teams now, yes. Difficult to say how big the advantage is and how it will express itself on the field. I guess if the injured pitcher strategy works out, that might be one way the sabermetrics has helped them as a new trend, but we'll see...
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Posted: 2/4/2013 12:33 PM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



CoachK34 wrote: 2007, You never cease to amaze me!! You've gotta do this stuff on purpose.


+1

He reminds me of my father in law. You say the sky is blue, he will say it's a shade of blue. You say that glass is half full, he will say it's half empty. You say "Lennon and McCarthy" wrote a particular Beatles song, he will say "McCarthy and Lennon" wrote that song etc. Whatever you say, he will argue no matter what it is, just for the sake of arguing.

I think some people are just born that way and is they get older, that side just comes out more and more particularly in old men. I don't know what it is but guys who are older just seem love to argue about everything.

Last edited 2/4/2013 12:34 PM by PorkChopExpress12

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Posted: 2/4/2013 12:51 PM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



PorkChopExpress12 wrote:
CoachK34 wrote: 2007, You never cease to amaze me!! You've gotta do this stuff on purpose.


He reminds me of my father in law. You say the sky is blue, he will say it's a shade of blue. You say that glass is half full, he will say it's half empty. You say "Lennon and McCarthy" wrote a particular Beatles song, he will say "McCarthy and Lennon" wrote that song etc. Whatever you say, he will argue no matter what it is, just for the sake of arguing.

I think some people are just born that way and is they get older, that side just comes out more and more particularly in old men. I don't know what it is but guys who are older just seem love to argue about everything.

You make a post regarding the potential advantage the Cubs have using sabermetrics with a weak argument the value is signing injured pitchers.

I can see why nobody would question that logic.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 12:57 PM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



cubs2007 wrote:
PorkChopExpress12 wrote:
CoachK34 wrote: 2007, You never cease to amaze me!! You've gotta do this stuff on purpose.


He reminds me of my father in law. You say the sky is blue, he will say it's a shade of blue. You say that glass is half full, he will say it's half empty. You say "Lennon and McCarthy" wrote a particular Beatles song, he will say "McCarthy and Lennon" wrote that song etc. Whatever you say, he will argue no matter what it is, just for the sake of arguing.

I think some people are just born that way and is they get older, that side just comes out more and more particularly in old men. I don't know what it is but guys who are older just seem love to argue about everything.

You make a post regarding the potential advantage the Cubs have using sabermetrics with a weak argument the value is signing injured pitchers.

I can see why nobody would question that logic.
First you argue that an article doesn't say what someone says it does, and then you argue that signing pitchers coming of TJ surgery isn't a potential advantage.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 1:01 PM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



KatieCubFan wrote:
First you argue that an article doesn't say what someone says it does, and then you argue that signing pitchers coming of TJ surgery isn't a potential advantage.
Your right on both accounts - the article does not say the Cubs have an advantage using sabermetrics yet Sportsgoblin implies they do

second - I don't see the big advantage of signing a pitcher to a 1 year deal coming off tommy john surgery.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 2:34 PM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



cubs2007 wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
First you argue that an article doesn't say what someone says it does, and then you argue that signing pitchers coming of TJ surgery isn't a potential advantage.
Your right on both accounts - the article does not say the Cubs have an advantage using sabermetrics yet Sportsgoblin implies they do

second - I don't see the big advantage of signing a pitcher to a 1 year deal coming off tommy john surgery.
Sportsgoblin implies no such thing. Cubs2007 is inferring such, but he doesn't read well or pay attention, so there is only so much I can do here.

What I was implying or flat out saying is that the Cubs think sabermetrics is important (can give an advantage over other teams if done well or a deficiency if you neglect it), noted by their recent hiring of the exclusive services of Tom Tango. That's it. I personally feel they have an advantage over many teams because of the aforementioned hiring, increases to their staff and the hiring of Tom Tango, but who is better at sabermetrics is harder to rank/measure, because each team is somewhat secretive about what they have, etc.

Hope that clarifies things. The pitcher health metric is a question the interviewer asked under the category of "is this the new OBP" for finding "value".
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Posted: 2/4/2013 2:48 PM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



SportsGoblin wrote:
Sportsgoblin implies no such thing. Cubs2007 is inferring such, but he doesn't read well or pay attention, so there is only so much I can do here.

What I was implying or flat out saying is that the Cubs think sabermetrics is important (can give an advantage over other teams if done well or a deficiency if you neglect it), noted by their recent hiring of the exclusive services of Tom Tango. That's it. I personally feel they have an advantage over many teams because of the aforementioned hiring, increases to their staff and the hiring of Tom Tango, but who is better at sabermetrics is harder to rank/measure, because each team is somewhat secretive about what they have, etc.

Hope that clarifies things. The pitcher health metric is a question the interviewer asked under the category of "is this the new OBP" for finding "value".
The value regarding health is keeping pitchers on the mound and not finding value in signing pitchers coming off injuries.

Did Washington do the right thing in shutting down Strasburg or would they have been better off letting him pitch all year ?
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Posted: 2/4/2013 3:07 PM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
Sportsgoblin implies no such thing. Cubs2007 is inferring such, but he doesn't read well or pay attention, so there is only so much I can do here.

What I was implying or flat out saying is that the Cubs think sabermetrics is important (can give an advantage over other teams if done well or a deficiency if you neglect it), noted by their recent hiring of the exclusive services of Tom Tango. That's it. I personally feel they have an advantage over many teams because of the aforementioned hiring, increases to their staff and the hiring of Tom Tango, but who is better at sabermetrics is harder to rank/measure, because each team is somewhat secretive about what they have, etc.

Hope that clarifies things. The pitcher health metric is a question the interviewer asked under the category of "is this the new OBP" for finding "value".
The value regarding health is keeping pitchers on the mound and not finding value in signing pitchers coming off injuries.

Did Washington do the right thing in shutting down Strasburg or would they have been better off letting him pitch all year ?
If pitching health is indeed the new OBP, than the value comes in being able to better determine which pitchers coming back from injury are worth the risk and which aren't. They come at a greatly reduced price because of the injury, so if you can hit on most of the injured pitchers you sign, then you are way ahead of the game financially.

Strasburg...depends. Their numbers told them it wasn't worth the risk. If they had rolled the dice and won the World Series...then it probably would be worth it to them regardless of what happens after. If they didn't win though and created the next Mark Prior..then clearly not worth the risk.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 3:13 PM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



SportsGoblin wrote:
If pitching health is indeed the new OBP, than the value comes in being able to better determine which pitchers coming back from injury are worth the risk and which aren't. They come at a greatly reduced price because of the injury, so if you can hit on most of the injured pitchers you sign, then you are way ahead of the game financially.
That is not what the article was saying - it was not trying to get value on picking up tommy john rehab projects cheap - it was how to keep the pitchers healthy and on the field
Strasburg...depends. Their numbers told them it wasn't worth the risk. If they had rolled the dice and won the World Series...then it probably would be worth it to them regardless of what happens after. If they didn't win though and created the next Mark Prior..then clearly not worth the risk.
The experts have no idea if shutting him down will prevent him from getting injured again. You are rolling dice if he pitched or did not pitch and there is no statistically evidence to predict if he become the next Prior.

Last edited 2/4/2013 3:14 PM by cubs2007

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Posted: 2/4/2013 3:43 PM

RE: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
If pitching health is indeed the new OBP, than the value comes in being able to better determine which pitchers coming back from injury are worth the risk and which aren't. They come at a greatly reduced price because of the injury, so if you can hit on most of the injured pitchers you sign, then you are way ahead of the game financially.
That is not what the article was saying - it was not trying to get value on picking up tommy john rehab projects cheap - it was how to keep the pitchers healthy and on the field
Strasburg...depends. Their numbers told them it wasn't worth the risk. If they had rolled the dice and won the World Series...then it probably would be worth it to them regardless of what happens after. If they didn't win though and created the next Mark Prior..then clearly not worth the risk.
The experts have no idea if shutting him down will prevent him from getting injured again. You are rolling dice if he pitched or did not pitch and there is no statistically evidence to predict if he become the next Prior.
The question was if pitcher health was the next OBP. THAT is a clear implication of getting value. Tango didn't answer the question asked directly and instead focused on keeping pitchers healthy.

That said, if your team is better at keeping guys healthy than others, it is obviously a good way to get value. You have no idea what the experts do or do not have knowledge about. There are no certainties, but I'm guessing their educated guesses as to their health are better than yours or mine.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:03 PM

Re: Cubs add more Sabermetrics 



DoubleDown11 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote: Old (couple days) news by now, but I did not see it posted, so will add here.

The Cubs have obtained the exclusive services of the infamous Tom Tango, the sabermetrician who invented Weight On-base Average (wOBA) and Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP).

LINK to MLBTraderumors Announcement

Here is the interview they posted with Tango:

ESPN Interview

For those who think that basically everyone uses stats and sabermetrics today and that therefore nobody has an advantage, the Cubs clearly disagree. There is such a thing as being able to use them better. As an aside, the article also briefly touches on what might the new OBP as far as getting value: Pitcher Health. I believe we discussed this before.

Where does it say the Cubs use stats better then every other team with their ivy league employess developing their own stats ?

Where does it say that he said that?  Took you all of one post in this thread to literally create an argument out of thin air.
+1000

unbelievable..
#23 OF CHICAGO SPORTS:
         23 - SANDBERG
         23 - JORDAN
         23 - HESTER
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