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Prospect Power Comparison

  • RAMBLE
  • Franchise Player
  • 1741 posts this site

Posted: 1/29/2013 10:28 PM

Prospect Power Comparison 


Jonathan Mayo @ JonathanMayoB3 Vogelbach RT @ brimasky : @ JonathanMayoB3 # mlbpipeline . More power in the bat,Vogelbach or Soler?
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Posted: 1/30/2013 4:56 PM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 


I've always been a bit of a non-comformist, so I'll buck a trend here and say if, I-F, Vogelsbach has a similar season this year, at a higher level, I am going to start to ponder what the Cubs could get in return for Rizzo. A young, Major League proven player could get you more in return than a pudgy prospect.

And than pudgy prospect is a complete, surprisingly efficient hitter with potential league leading power. In my Kool-aid induced haze, I can't help but think of the power numbers a line up that has  Vogelbach at 1B and Soler in RF could produce.  While it's a bit premature at the moment, if both live up to their reputed talent levels, at higher levels this year, that dream line up of mine will be one huge step closer to reality. And I think the chances of both succeeding at the big league level are much higher than your average, high ceiling prospects, as both of their bats are remarkable absent of red flags. Vogelsbach, obviously needs to continue to keep Jenny Craig on speed dial.
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  • RAMBLE
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Posted: 1/30/2013 5:08 PM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



HolyMackeral wrote: I've always been a bit of a non-comformist, so I'll buck a trend here and say if, I-F, Vogelsbach has a similar season this year, at a higher level, I am going to start to ponder what the Cubs could get in return for Rizzo. A young, Major League proven player could get you more in return than a pudgy prospect.

And than pudgy prospect is a complete, surprisingly efficient hitter with potential league leading power. In my Kool-aid induced haze, I can't help but think of the power numbers a line up that has  Vogelbach at 1B and Soler in RF could produce.  While it's a bit premature at the moment, if both live up to their reputed talent levels, at higher levels this year, that dream line up of mine will be one huge step closer to reality. And I think the chances of both succeeding at the big league level are much higher than your average, high ceiling prospects, as both of their bats are remarkable absent of red flags. Vogelsbach, obviously needs to continue to keep Jenny Craig on speed dial.
Hey, that is an interesting and maybe right on thought. Vogelbach hits 52 HR's, drives in 129.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 2:17 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



RAMBLE wrote:
HolyMackeral wrote: I've always been a bit of a non-comformist, so I'll buck a trend here and say if, I-F, Vogelsbach has a similar season this year, at a higher level, I am going to start to ponder what the Cubs could get in return for Rizzo. A young, Major League proven player could get you more in return than a pudgy prospect.

And than pudgy prospect is a complete, surprisingly efficient hitter with potential league leading power. In my Kool-aid induced haze, I can't help but think of the power numbers a line up that has  Vogelbach at 1B and Soler in RF could produce.  While it's a bit premature at the moment, if both live up to their reputed talent levels, at higher levels this year, that dream line up of mine will be one huge step closer to reality. And I think the chances of both succeeding at the big league level are much higher than your average, high ceiling prospects, as both of their bats are remarkable absent of red flags. Vogelsbach, obviously needs to continue to keep Jenny Craig on speed dial.
Hey, that is an interesting and maybe right on thought. Vogelbach hits 52 HR's, drives in 129.
I got an interesting thought for you, stick to providing links.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:13 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 


Some people may think defense is overrated.  Theo isn't one of them.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:28 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



HolyMackeral wrote: I've always been a bit of a non-comformist, so I'll buck a trend here and say if, I-F, Vogelsbach has a similar season this year, at a higher level, I am going to start to ponder what the Cubs could get in return for Rizzo. A young, Major League proven player could get you more in return than a pudgy prospect.

And than pudgy prospect is a complete, surprisingly efficient hitter with potential league leading power. In my Kool-aid induced haze, I can't help but think of the power numbers a line up that has  Vogelbach at 1B and Soler in RF could produce.  While it's a bit premature at the moment, if both live up to their reputed talent levels, at higher levels this year, that dream line up of mine will be one huge step closer to reality. And I think the chances of both succeeding at the big league level are much higher than your average, high ceiling prospects, as both of their bats are remarkable absent of red flags. Vogelsbach, obviously needs to continue to keep Jenny Craig on speed dial.
Why is there such a fascination with Vogelbach ? He has yet to even play at low A baseball and many scouting reports see him as more of a DH than being able to field a position which is only 1b. If you are dreaming of a power hitting 1b stick with Rizzo that actually looks like he will be that power hitting player that can field his position.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:48 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



KatieCubFan wrote: Some people may think defense is overrated.  Theo isn't one of them.

+100000

And that is why Theo won 2 championships in Boston while Billy Beane only has a movie made after him and not even a World Series appearance (though it was a darn good movie). If Theo was a pure "Moneyball" philosophier, he never would have traded Nomar. Stats wise Nomar was far the better player compared to Cabrera but Cabrera was much slicker with the glove while Roberts brought speed and Mientkiewicz defense.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:48 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



cubs2007 wrote:
HolyMackeral wrote: I've always been a bit of a non-comformist, so I'll buck a trend here and say if, I-F, Vogelsbach has a similar season this year, at a higher level, I am going to start to ponder what the Cubs could get in return for Rizzo. A young, Major League proven player could get you more in return than a pudgy prospect.

And than pudgy prospect is a complete, surprisingly efficient hitter with potential league leading power. In my Kool-aid induced haze, I can't help but think of the power numbers a line up that has  Vogelbach at 1B and Soler in RF could produce.  While it's a bit premature at the moment, if both live up to their reputed talent levels, at higher levels this year, that dream line up of mine will be one huge step closer to reality. And I think the chances of both succeeding at the big league level are much higher than your average, high ceiling prospects, as both of their bats are remarkable absent of red flags. Vogelsbach, obviously needs to continue to keep Jenny Craig on speed dial.
Why is there such a fascination with Vogelbach ? He has yet to even play at low A baseball and many scouting reports see him as more of a DH than being able to field a position which is only 1b. If you are dreaming of a power hitting 1b stick with Rizzo that actually looks like he will be that power hitting player that can field his position.

Because we're talking about building a franchise here.  Part of that is developing prospects that can be traded for established stars.  If you want to trade for a Roy Halladay, Josh Beckett, or CC Sabathia, you have to have some Kyle Drabek's, Hanley Ramirez's, and Matt LaPorta's that other teams might actually want.  So even if Vogelbach is a DH, if he continues to hit the way he has so far, he's somebody that we can flip to an American League team in a trade.  Right now we have very little in the upper minors worth trading, so people are focusing on the lower levels, where we do have some prospects who could eventually turn into something.  It's really not that complicated to figure out.  We're not all as dumb as you think we are.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:49 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 


Because all the "scouting reports" you say are so important says he has ungodly power. And if you think he can't play 1st descent enough because he is too damn fat, two words: Prince Fielder.
cubs2007 wrote: Why is there such a fascination with Vogelbach ?
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  • RAMBLE
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:11 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



HolyMackeral wrote:
RAMBLE wrote:
HolyMackeral wrote: I've always been a bit of a non-comformist, so I'll buck a trend here and say if, I-F, Vogelsbach has a similar season this year, at a higher level, I am going to start to ponder what the Cubs could get in return for Rizzo. A young, Major League proven player could get you more in return than a pudgy prospect.

And than pudgy prospect is a complete, surprisingly efficient hitter with potential league leading power. In my Kool-aid induced haze, I can't help but think of the power numbers a line up that has  Vogelbach at 1B and Soler in RF could produce.  While it's a bit premature at the moment, if both live up to their reputed talent levels, at higher levels this year, that dream line up of mine will be one huge step closer to reality. And I think the chances of both succeeding at the big league level are much higher than your average, high ceiling prospects, as both of their bats are remarkable absent of red flags. Vogelsbach, obviously needs to continue to keep Jenny Craig on speed dial.
Hey, that is an interesting and maybe right on thought. Vogelbach hits 52 HR's, drives in 129.
I got an interesting thought for you, stick to providing links.
Do U understand I was AGREEING with you?
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:10 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 


I think if Vogelbach and Rizzo both continue at this rate, the team can find spots in the lineup for both of them.  One of them can probably adapt to the outfield, likely Rizzo because he seems more athletic.

How about this homegrown lineup by '15/'16?  A total pipe dream, but it looks delicious.  That heart of the order is straight up lethal.

1. Javier Baez (3B) - R
2. Starlin Castro (SS) - R
3. Anthony Rizzo (LF) - L
4. Jorge Soler (RF) - R
5. Dan Vogelbach (1B) - L
6. Albert Almora (CF) - R
7. Wellington Castillo (C) - R
8. Darwin Barney (2B) - R

Last edited 1/31/2013 10:11 AM by Anomalied

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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:13 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



DoubleDown11 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
HolyMackeral wrote: I've always been a bit of a non-comformist, so I'll buck a trend here and say if, I-F, Vogelsbach has a similar season this year, at a higher level, I am going to start to ponder what the Cubs could get in return for Rizzo. A young, Major League proven player could get you more in return than a pudgy prospect.

And than pudgy prospect is a complete, surprisingly efficient hitter with potential league leading power. In my Kool-aid induced haze, I can't help but think of the power numbers a line up that has  Vogelbach at 1B and Soler in RF could produce.  While it's a bit premature at the moment, if both live up to their reputed talent levels, at higher levels this year, that dream line up of mine will be one huge step closer to reality. And I think the chances of both succeeding at the big league level are much higher than your average, high ceiling prospects, as both of their bats are remarkable absent of red flags. Vogelsbach, obviously needs to continue to keep Jenny Craig on speed dial.
Why is there such a fascination with Vogelbach ? He has yet to even play at low A baseball and many scouting reports see him as more of a DH than being able to field a position which is only 1b. If you are dreaming of a power hitting 1b stick with Rizzo that actually looks like he will be that power hitting player that can field his position.

Because we're talking about building a franchise here.  Part of that is developing prospects that can be traded for established stars.  If you want to trade for a Roy Halladay, Josh Beckett, or CC Sabathia, you have to have some Kyle Drabek's, Hanley Ramirez's, and Matt LaPorta's that other teams might actually want.  So even if Vogelbach is a DH, if he continues to hit the way he has so far, he's somebody that we can flip to an American League team in a trade.  Right now we have very little in the upper minors worth trading, so people are focusing on the lower levels, where we do have some prospects who could eventually turn into something.  It's really not that complicated to figure out.  We're not all as dumb as you think we are.
DH's have very little trade value - Wait until he starts hitting big at AA then we can start having discussions of future value to either the Cubs or to another team. He will play most the year at low A ball then 2014 should play high A ball and may get to AA.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:53 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



PorkChopExpress12 wrote: Because all the "scouting reports" you say are so important says he has ungodly power. And if you think he can't play 1st descent enough because he is too damn fat, two words: Prince Fielder.
cubs2007 wrote: Why is there such a fascination with Vogelbach ?

That and his selective approach at the plate has been praised.  His K/BB ratio has been pretty solid.  He has shown power to all fields.  He doesn't appear to be a one-dimensional hitter.  I hope they do find a way to get both him and Rizzo in the lineup.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:08 AM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



KatieCubFan wrote:
PorkChopExpress12 wrote: Because all the "scouting reports" you say are so important says he has ungodly power. And if you think he can't play 1st descent enough because he is too damn fat, two words: Prince Fielder.
cubs2007 wrote: Why is there such a fascination with Vogelbach ?

That and his selective approach at the plate has been praised.  His K/BB ratio has been pretty solid.  He has shown power to all fields.  He doesn't appear to be a one-dimensional hitter.  I hope they do find a way to get both him and Rizzo in the lineup.
The earliest you can expect Vogelbach to get close to the majors is 2015. There is no way both Vogelbach & Rizzo start together unless the NL adopts the DH rule.

http://baseballprospectnation....n-vogelbach-1b/

Summation: True bat only type. No value (or potential for value) beyond the hitting/power ability. Truly better suited for DH duty long term. Approach will have to improve as he advances, particularly against consistently better secondary pitches. Bat has potential for .280 average and 30+ home runs. Peak offensive performance could make him a valuable cleanup hitter in a good lineup.

Relative Risk: High. Tons of pressure for exceptional offensive development from a very young player.

Future: Should finish the 2012 season with Boise (NWL) and will likely spend the bulk of the 2013 season with Low-A Peoria. Could begin to move quickly in 2014 if he continues to hit at High-A Daytona and possibly onto Double-A. His offensive performance will dictate his timetable through the system but he could be starting to show up on the big league radar late in 2015.

 
 

Last edited 1/31/2013 11:09 AM by cubs2007

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  • ARAMIS13
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Posted: 1/31/2013 4:07 PM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 


by 2015, maybe the NL will have a DH as well.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 4:10 PM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



ARAMIS13 wrote: by 2015, maybe the NL will have a DH as well.
I hope the NL never uses the DH
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:47 PM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 


I love the premise of this thread: the Cubs suddenly wind up with several All-Stars and just dont have enough positions for all of them.

Returning to the real world for a brief moment: if this actually happens, Theo and Jed will probably be able to figure something out.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:48 PM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



cubs2007 wrote:
ARAMIS13 wrote: by 2015, maybe the NL will have a DH as well.
I hope the NL never uses the DH

Ditto
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:54 PM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



RAMBLE wrote:
HolyMackeral wrote:
RAMBLE wrote:
HolyMackeral wrote: I've always been a bit of a non-comformist, so I'll buck a trend here and say if, I-F, Vogelsbach has a similar season this year, at a higher level, I am going to start to ponder what the Cubs could get in return for Rizzo. A young, Major League proven player could get you more in return than a pudgy prospect.

And than pudgy prospect is a complete, surprisingly efficient hitter with potential league leading power. In my Kool-aid induced haze, I can't help but think of the power numbers a line up that has  Vogelbach at 1B and Soler in RF could produce.  While it's a bit premature at the moment, if both live up to their reputed talent levels, at higher levels this year, that dream line up of mine will be one huge step closer to reality. And I think the chances of both succeeding at the big league level are much higher than your average, high ceiling prospects, as both of their bats are remarkable absent of red flags. Vogelsbach, obviously needs to continue to keep Jenny Craig on speed dial.
Hey, that is an interesting and maybe right on thought. Vogelbach hits 52 HR's, drives in 129.
I got an interesting thought for you, stick to providing links.
Do U understand I was AGREEING with you?

Oppppps, I saw those outlandish stats and instantly thought sarcasm. Sorry --tail between my legs
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:20 PM

Re: Prospect Power Comparison 



HolyMackeral wrote:
RAMBLE wrote:
HolyMackeral wrote:
RAMBLE wrote:
HolyMackeral wrote: I've always been a bit of a non-comformist, so I'll buck a trend here and say if, I-F, Vogelsbach has a similar season this year, at a higher level, I am going to start to ponder what the Cubs could get in return for Rizzo. A young, Major League proven player could get you more in return than a pudgy prospect.

And than pudgy prospect is a complete, surprisingly efficient hitter with potential league leading power. In my Kool-aid induced haze, I can't help but think of the power numbers a line up that has  Vogelbach at 1B and Soler in RF could produce.  While it's a bit premature at the moment, if both live up to their reputed talent levels, at higher levels this year, that dream line up of mine will be one huge step closer to reality. And I think the chances of both succeeding at the big league level are much higher than your average, high ceiling prospects, as both of their bats are remarkable absent of red flags. Vogelsbach, obviously needs to continue to keep Jenny Craig on speed dial.
Hey, that is an interesting and maybe right on thought. Vogelbach hits 52 HR's, drives in 129.
I got an interesting thought for you, stick to providing links.
Do U understand I was AGREEING with you?

Oppppps, I saw those outlandish stats and instantly thought sarcasm. Sorry --tail between my legs
You're not alone.
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