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New PED list

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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:46 AM

New PED list 


http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/st...linic-ped-lists

Records from an anti-aging clinic in Miami list the names of prominent baseball players -- including Alex Rodriguez, Melky Cabrera, Nelson Cruz and Gio Gonzalez -- and detail performance-enhancing drugs administered to them and others, according to a report Tuesday by the Miami New Times.

Lets see what baseball does with this since they claim the steroid era was over
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  • RAMBLE
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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:02 PM

Re: New PED list 


Must say, I loved those Pez dispensers.
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  • Jay02
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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:41 PM

Re: New PED list 


Bruan was not on it
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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:51 PM

Re: New PED list 



Jay02 wrote: Bruan was not on it
I don't think anyone said it was an all-inclusive list. Braun could have received his PEDs from a different supplier. There are a lot of them. This was just the list of users from this supplier.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 3:05 PM

Re: New PED list 



SportsGoblin wrote: I don't think anyone said it was an all-inclusive list. Braun could have received his PEDs from a different supplier. There are a lot of them. This was just the list of users from this supplier.

+1

And it's pretty impressive list from just 1 supplier. In the end, they are all going to get caught one way or the other.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 3:15 PM

Re: New PED list 



PorkChopExpress12 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote: I don't think anyone said it was an all-inclusive list. Braun could have received his PEDs from a different supplier. There are a lot of them. This was just the list of users from this supplier.

+1

And it's pretty impressive list from just 1 supplier. In the end, they are all going to get caught one way or the other.
Lets see how many players are suspended - Baseball needs to enforce their rules and continue to make tougher tests and penalties if they want PED free players.

It is a joke to say the PED era is over.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 4:18 PM

Re: New PED list 


One major difference this time buddy. The Feds are moving in this time:

http://www.nydailynews.com/spo...ticle-1.1250257

Last time, the Feds just warned Uncle Bud several times. The only thing Uncle Bud did was try to shred all the faxes. They will not make the same mistake twice.

I wonder too if Travis Tygart is going to start investing these now since he took down Lance Armstrong.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 4:30 PM

Re: New PED list 



PorkChopExpress12 wrote: One major difference this time buddy. The Feds are moving in this time:

http://www.nydailynews.com/spo...ticle-1.1250257

Last time, the Feds just warned Uncle Bud several times. The only thing Uncle Bud did was try to shred all the faxes. They will not make the same mistake twice.

I wonder too if Travis Tygart is going to start investing these now since he took down Lance Armstrong.
This is just 1 supplier being investigated. Baseball has made a start by improving the testing but needs to take it much further. They can't wait for the Feds to police their game.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 4:48 PM

Re: New PED list 


http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_...n-ped-penalties

From article -

So somewhere along the line, the price these men must pay for this crime has to grow large enough to force them to feel the pain. Two-month suspensions alone aren't enough. In-season blood tests aren't enough. Even public humiliation isn't enough.


And it won't be enough until the suspensions grow longer and the penalties grow stiffer -- because, clearly, the thought of losing 50 games worth of pay isn't scaring the people who need scaring.

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Posted: 1/30/2013 7:44 AM

Re: New PED list 



cubs2007 wrote: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_...n-ped-penalties

From article -

So somewhere along the line, the price these men must pay for this crime has to grow large enough to force them to feel the pain. Two-month suspensions alone aren't enough. In-season blood tests aren't enough. Even public humiliation isn't enough.


And it won't be enough until the suspensions grow longer and the penalties grow stiffer -- because, clearly, the thought of losing 50 games worth of pay isn't scaring the people who need scaring.


If your expecting MLB to police itself in the near future, don't hold your breath. Uncle Bud has done next to nothing over the past 20 years even though he resided over the biggest PED's scandal in North American team sports history.

The only hope for the game to be clean up in the near future is if Uncle Bud falls off a roller coaster and breaks every bone in his body making him unable to do his job and they name a successor with a pair.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 9:44 AM

Re: New PED list 



PorkChopExpress12 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_...n-ped-penalties

From article -

So somewhere along the line, the price these men must pay for this crime has to grow large enough to force them to feel the pain. Two-month suspensions alone aren't enough. In-season blood tests aren't enough. Even public humiliation isn't enough.


And it won't be enough until the suspensions grow longer and the penalties grow stiffer -- because, clearly, the thought of losing 50 games worth of pay isn't scaring the people who need scaring.


If your expecting MLB to police itself in the near future, don't hold your breath. Uncle Bud has done next to nothing over the past 20 years even though he resided over the biggest PED's scandal in North American team sports history.

The only hope for the game to be clean up in the near future is if Uncle Bud falls off a roller coaster and breaks every bone in his body making him unable to do his job and they name a successor with a pair.
Tell you what though...a 2 year ban like they have for Olympic track-and-field (and other things)...that would be a pretty good motivator to stay clean. Yes, with the fast-acting steroids and other tricks they have, it is pretty difficult to get caught. But if you are...that would hurt.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 9:57 AM

Re: New PED list 



SportsGoblin wrote:
PorkChopExpress12 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_...n-ped-penalties

From article -

So somewhere along the line, the price these men must pay for this crime has to grow large enough to force them to feel the pain. Two-month suspensions alone aren't enough. In-season blood tests aren't enough. Even public humiliation isn't enough.


And it won't be enough until the suspensions grow longer and the penalties grow stiffer -- because, clearly, the thought of losing 50 games worth of pay isn't scaring the people who need scaring.


If your expecting MLB to police itself in the near future, don't hold your breath. Uncle Bud has done next to nothing over the past 20 years even though he resided over the biggest PED's scandal in North American team sports history.

The only hope for the game to be clean up in the near future is if Uncle Bud falls off a roller coaster and breaks every bone in his body making him unable to do his job and they name a successor with a pair.
Tell you what though...a 2 year ban like they have for Olympic track-and-field (and other things)...that would be a pretty good motivator to stay clean. Yes, with the fast-acting steroids and other tricks they have, it is pretty difficult to get caught. But if you are...that would hurt.
You could also ban them from being put on the hall of fame ballot.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 10:10 AM

Re: New PED list 


Yankees trying to void A-Rod's contract

What a fall from grace.  I remember just a few years ago when he was regarded as a surefire first ballot on pace to demolish Bonds' record* for home runs.  I don't know whose stock has fallen lower between him and Clemens.  

But maybe now the Yanks could be open to bringing back Soriano back as a power bat to replace A-Rod?  Perhaps package him with Marmol and try and grab Hughes and/or Chamberlain?

Or if Cruz is implicated, the Rangers might have interest in Sori.  He's had productive seasons there in the past and could probably post 30+ homers again playing at Arlington.  The Cubs could include Garza too and swing for the king's ransom of Olt, Martin, plus maybe Perez?  Just spitballing here.

We'll see how this develops.

Last edited 1/30/2013 10:20 AM by Anomalied

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Posted: 1/30/2013 10:52 AM

Re: New PED list 


so, would we all agree amphetamines enhance performance?  they help fight fatigue, so in a league where you have day games & night games, lots of travel, something that would fight off fatigue would enhance your performance, right?

So, are guys like Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays PED users?

My point here is where do we draw the line of a PED user that is the devil re-incarnate or just a guy looking for an edge?  That is the problem with all of this PED era stuff... when did it really begin? 

I agree, if you used HGH or steroids you need to be cast out... but where do you draw the line of enhanced performance?  this is FAR from a black & white situation, which makes it so difficult to craft a great policy around.

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Posted: 1/30/2013 11:08 AM

Re: New PED list 



EamusCatuli wrote:

so, would we all agree amphetamines enhance performance?  they help fight fatigue, so in a league where you have day games & night games, lots of travel, something that would fight off fatigue would enhance your performance, right?

So, are guys like Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays PED users?

My point here is where do we draw the line of a PED user that is the devil re-incarnate or just a guy looking for an edge?  That is the problem with all of this PED era stuff... when did it really begin? 

I agree, if you used HGH or steroids you need to be cast out... but where do you draw the line of enhanced performance?  this is FAR from a black & white situation, which makes it so difficult to craft a great policy around.



Many athletes who use amphetamines do so because of the increased energy and ability to focus that they experience while under the influence of these drugs. Amphetamine use was common among professional baseball players beginning in the 1960's when the drugs were called "greenies." Some sources report that the amphetamine abuse rate in professional baseball was as high as 85%. Major League Baseball only began mandatory testing for amphetamines in 2006.

You can make it black and white if you set rules against specific PED's with testing for those PED's and add penalties if caught and actually enforce the rules.

If you did not make rules or tests or penalties it is hard to call any player using cheaters. If the owners/commisioner/players union/sports writers didn't propose rules changes and all the records and chamionships have won while using then you can not go back and erase what happened.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 11:34 AM

Re: New PED list 



EamusCatuli wrote:

so, would we all agree amphetamines enhance performance?  they help fight fatigue, so in a league where you have day games & night games, lots of travel, something that would fight off fatigue would enhance your performance, right?

So, are guys like Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays PED users?

My point here is where do we draw the line of a PED user that is the devil re-incarnate or just a guy looking for an edge?  That is the problem with all of this PED era stuff... when did it really begin? 

I agree, if you used HGH or steroids you need to be cast out... but where do you draw the line of enhanced performance?  this is FAR from a black & white situation, which makes it so difficult to craft a great policy around.




If you count playing drunk half the time, then yeah Mantle was a PED's user.

Insanely dumb statement. I guess Roger Maris was a PED'er too since he drank a ton of soda pop and chain smoked (two stimulants) during his 1961 HR chase. Oh yeah, the fact his hair was falling out was a definite sign he was on something *rolling eyes* ohlord

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Posted: 1/30/2013 11:36 AM

Re: New PED list 



SportsGoblin wrote: Tell you what though...a 2 year ban like they have for Olympic track-and-field (and other things)...that would be a pretty good motivator to stay clean. Yes, with the fast-acting steroids and other tricks they have, it is pretty difficult to get caught. But if you are...that would hurt.

+1

I totally agree. But again the problem is Uncle Bud. He won't do a damn thing to even begin to address this issue. He is going to keep kicking the can down the road and let the next guy deal with this. If he even cares that much. I get the feeling Uncle Bud could care less about the intrigity of the game or it's history. All he cares about is the dollar signs. The joke which is the World Baseball Classic is just one example.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 1:04 PM

Re: New PED list 



PorkChopExpress12 wrote:
EamusCatuli wrote:

so, would we all agree amphetamines enhance performance?  they help fight fatigue, so in a league where you have day games & night games, lots of travel, something that would fight off fatigue would enhance your performance, right?

So, are guys like Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays PED users?

My point here is where do we draw the line of a PED user that is the devil re-incarnate or just a guy looking for an edge?  That is the problem with all of this PED era stuff... when did it really begin? 

I agree, if you used HGH or steroids you need to be cast out... but where do you draw the line of enhanced performance?  this is FAR from a black & white situation, which makes it so difficult to craft a great policy around.




If you count playing drunk half the time, then yeah Mantle was a PED's user.

Insanely dumb statement. I guess Roger Maris was a PED'er too since he drank a ton of soda pop and chain smoked (two stimulants) during his 1961 HR chase. Oh yeah, the fact his hair was falling out was a definite sign he was on something.

Amphetamines have been proven to be performance enhancing drugs -

In 1961, during his home run race with Roger Maris, Mickey Mantle developed a sudden abscess that kept him on the bench. It came from an infected needle used by Max Jacobson, a doctor who injected Mantle with steroids and speed. In his autobiography, Hank Aaron admitted once taking an amphetamine tablet during a game. The Pirates’ John Milner testified at a drug dealer’s trial that his teammate, Willie Mays, kept “red juice,” a liquid form of speed, in his locker. After he retired, Sandy Koufax admitted the he was often “half high” on the mound from the drugs he took for his ailing left arm.

 

Anabolic steroids are drugs that mimic the effects of the male hormone testosterone. They increase protein synthesis within cells, which helps build larger muscles. It’s well accepted that use of anabolic steroids, in combination with adequate diet and high intensity exercise, can result in gains in muscle strength. Whether this increased strength enhances performance in a sport like baseball is an open question – most people assume that it does, but we have no scientific proof.


What about amphetamines?


While anabolic steroids enhance performance by helping an athlete build muscle, amphetamines (sometimes called “greenies” in baseball circles) affect performance by stimulating the athlete’s central nervous system. Amphetamines trigger increases in the user’s blood pressure, heart rate, cardiac output and breathing rate. As a result, athletes that take amphetamines experience increased alertness and wakefulness, and decreased sensation of muscle fatigue. Studies show that amphetamines can increase reaction time and cognitive function, and improve an athlete’s endurance.

Last edited 1/30/2013 1:25 PM by cubs2007

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Posted: 1/30/2013 1:32 PM

Re: New PED list 



PorkChopExpress12 wrote:

I totally agree. But again the problem is Uncle Bud. He won't do a damn thing to even begin to address this issue. He is going to keep kicking the can down the road and let the next guy deal with this. If he even cares that much. I get the feeling Uncle Bud could care less about the intrigity of the game or it's history. All he cares about is the dollar signs. The joke which is the World Baseball Classic is just one example.

But the bigger shoe to fall is the one belonging to commissioner Bud Selig. The notebooks of Anthony Bosch are figuratively on his desk at this very moment. The man who in union with the players association has crafted the toughest anti-PED policies in pro sports has the power to suspend the players even without a positive test.


Under section 7.G.2 of the Joint Drug Agreement, the commissioner can rule for disciplinary action against a player for "just cause" in the cases of violations not specifically referenced in the JDA. Prescriptions and records of PED use and purchase fall under the "just cause" umbrella.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.../?sct=uk_t11_a7
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Posted: 1/30/2013 2:06 PM

Re: New PED list 



cubs2007 wrote: In 1961, during his home run race with Roger Maris, Mickey Mantle developed a sudden abscess that kept him on the bench. It came from an infected needle used by Max Jacobson, a doctor who injected Mantle with steroids and speed.
JC guy, Mantle had an awful flu he couldn't shake and the Yankees broadcaster, Mel Allen recommend "Dr. Feelgood" to him. He was trying to get over the bleeping flu, not looking for a competitve advantage through chemistry!

So now your just quoting articles that aren't very well research instead of just posing questions for the sake of posing questions?

Last edited 1/30/2013 2:07 PM by PorkChopExpress12

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