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Throwing $ at the Problem

  • RAMBLE
  • Franchise Player
  • 1743 posts this site

Posted: 12/10/2012 7:26 AM

Throwing $ at the Problem 


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Posted: 12/10/2012 8:06 AM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 


I respectfully disagree.  Actually, I can't access this.  Can you maybe post a little excerpt or something?
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Posted: 12/10/2012 8:17 AM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 


"Only twice in the past 10 years have the Cubs seen an increase in payroll translate to more wins. However, four times they spent more on player salary than the year prior–only to lose more games.

 

The result of careless spending ultimately limits roster flexibility. It makes it tougher to acquire players and increasingly difficult to trade underperforming ones signed to gaudy contracts."

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Posted: 12/10/2012 8:45 AM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



shhadow wrote:

"Only twice in the past 10 years have the Cubs seen an increase in payroll translate to more wins. However, four times they spent more on player salary than the year prior–only to lose more games.

 

The result of careless spending ultimately limits roster flexibility. It makes it tougher to acquire players and increasingly difficult to trade underperforming ones signed to gaudy contracts."

That would be correct. It's taken the Cubs almost 5 years to shed all the contracts from the 2008 team and the biggest one Soriano, they are still stuck with.
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  • RAMBLE
  • Franchise Player
  • 1743 posts this site

Posted: 12/10/2012 11:06 AM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 


excerpt


Doubling down on payroll can open a small window to win a championship, as it did for the Cubs in 2007-08, but we know it’s no guarantee to winning a ring and the long-term effects makes it virtually impossible to maintain any success.

That’s why Theo Epstein is taking a more careful approach with team payroll than his predecessor Jim Hendry. Building the Cubs into a consistent winner, one that reaches the postseason year-after-year, gives the club its best odds of winning a World Series.

To build that model Epstein has to first relieve the pressure of what became a suffocating team payroll and roster gridlock under Hendry. It means making smarter investments, taking fewer risks and practicing more patience until some roster flexibility returns.

Of course building a core player group won’t come on the cheap. Neither will supplementing the core group with the best available free agents. No doubt Tom Ricketts realizes it’s going to take significant dollars to build a championship roster. It’s just important the payroll and roster talent grow together and not apart.

A staple of smart investing is discipline and patience. It’s understanding there’s no penalty for making smarter, smaller moves. But there are, however, severe consequences for losing sight of the long-term goals with greed and impatience.

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Posted: 12/10/2012 11:33 AM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



RAMBLE wrote: excerpt


Doubling down on payroll can open a small window to win a championship, as it did for the Cubs in 2007-08, but we know it’s no guarantee to winning a ring and the long-term effects makes it virtually impossible to maintain any success.

That’s why Theo Epstein is taking a more careful approach with team payroll than his predecessor Jim Hendry. Building the Cubs into a consistent winner, one that reaches the postseason year-after-year, gives the club its best odds of winning a World Series.

To build that model Epstein has to first relieve the pressure of what became a suffocating team payroll and roster gridlock under Hendry. It means making smarter investments, taking fewer risks and practicing more patience until some roster flexibility returns.

Of course building a core player group won’t come on the cheap. Neither will supplementing the core group with the best available free agents. No doubt Tom Ricketts realizes it’s going to take significant dollars to build a championship roster. It’s just important the payroll and roster talent grow together and not apart.

A staple of smart investing is discipline and patience. It’s understanding there’s no penalty for making smarter, smaller moves. But there are, however, severe consequences for losing sight of the long-term goals with greed and impatience.

The author of this article must read this board or something and was as annoyed with some of the comments as I am.  Bravo.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 1:07 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



flatball8 wrote:
RAMBLE wrote: excerpt


Doubling down on payroll can open a small window to win a championship, as it did for the Cubs in 2007-08, but we know it’s no guarantee to winning a ring and the long-term effects makes it virtually impossible to maintain any success.

That’s why Theo Epstein is taking a more careful approach with team payroll than his predecessor Jim Hendry. Building the Cubs into a consistent winner, one that reaches the postseason year-after-year, gives the club its best odds of winning a World Series.

To build that model Epstein has to first relieve the pressure of what became a suffocating team payroll and roster gridlock under Hendry. It means making smarter investments, taking fewer risks and practicing more patience until some roster flexibility returns.

Of course building a core player group won’t come on the cheap. Neither will supplementing the core group with the best available free agents. No doubt Tom Ricketts realizes it’s going to take significant dollars to build a championship roster. It’s just important the payroll and roster talent grow together and not apart.

A staple of smart investing is discipline and patience. It’s understanding there’s no penalty for making smarter, smaller moves. But there are, however, severe consequences for losing sight of the long-term goals with greed and impatience.

The author of this article must read this board or something and was as annoyed with some of the comments as I am.  Bravo.
Why aren't you annoyed about watching a 100 loss team ? Why aren't you annoyed about not improving a roster beyond 1 year deals ?

Payroll has often been talked about. You don't have to be the highest paid team but having a higher payroll will increase your chances of becoming a playoff team. As has been said many times it is not how much you spend but how wisely you spend it.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 1:25 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



cubs2007 wrote:
flatball8 wrote:
RAMBLE wrote: excerpt


Doubling down on payroll can open a small window to win a championship, as it did for the Cubs in 2007-08, but we know it’s no guarantee to winning a ring and the long-term effects makes it virtually impossible to maintain any success.

That’s why Theo Epstein is taking a more careful approach with team payroll than his predecessor Jim Hendry. Building the Cubs into a consistent winner, one that reaches the postseason year-after-year, gives the club its best odds of winning a World Series.

To build that model Epstein has to first relieve the pressure of what became a suffocating team payroll and roster gridlock under Hendry. It means making smarter investments, taking fewer risks and practicing more patience until some roster flexibility returns.

Of course building a core player group won’t come on the cheap. Neither will supplementing the core group with the best available free agents. No doubt Tom Ricketts realizes it’s going to take significant dollars to build a championship roster. It’s just important the payroll and roster talent grow together and not apart.

A staple of smart investing is discipline and patience. It’s understanding there’s no penalty for making smarter, smaller moves. But there are, however, severe consequences for losing sight of the long-term goals with greed and impatience.

The author of this article must read this board or something and was as annoyed with some of the comments as I am.  Bravo.
Why aren't you annoyed about watching a 100 loss team ? Why aren't you annoyed about not improving a roster beyond 1 year deals ?

Payroll has often been talked about. You don't have to be the highest paid team but having a higher payroll will increase your chances of becoming a playoff team. As has been said many times it is not how much you spend but how wisely you spend it.
Its definitely frustrating to watch this team.

Who would you over pay to have come here right now?
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Posted: 12/10/2012 1:41 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



CoachK34 wrote:
Its definitely frustrating to watch this team.

Who would you over pay to have come here right now?
In the past 2 off seasons has any player been signed to a long term deal you would consider a good value ?

It did not have to be free agent signings. Has there been any trades that improved teams the past 2 off-seasons ?

Last edited 12/10/2012 2:34 PM by cubs2007

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Posted: 12/10/2012 2:18 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



flatball8 wrote: The author of this article must read this board or something and was as annoyed with some of the comments as I am.  Bravo.

+1
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Posted: 12/10/2012 2:46 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 


Early look at 2013 teams payroll -

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com...jeff-samardzija
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Posted: 12/10/2012 3:35 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



cubs2007 wrote:
flatball8 wrote:
RAMBLE wrote: excerpt


Doubling down on payroll can open a small window to win a championship, as it did for the Cubs in 2007-08, but we know it’s no guarantee to winning a ring and the long-term effects makes it virtually impossible to maintain any success.

That’s why Theo Epstein is taking a more careful approach with team payroll than his predecessor Jim Hendry. Building the Cubs into a consistent winner, one that reaches the postseason year-after-year, gives the club its best odds of winning a World Series.

To build that model Epstein has to first relieve the pressure of what became a suffocating team payroll and roster gridlock under Hendry. It means making smarter investments, taking fewer risks and practicing more patience until some roster flexibility returns.

Of course building a core player group won’t come on the cheap. Neither will supplementing the core group with the best available free agents. No doubt Tom Ricketts realizes it’s going to take significant dollars to build a championship roster. It’s just important the payroll and roster talent grow together and not apart.

A staple of smart investing is discipline and patience. It’s understanding there’s no penalty for making smarter, smaller moves. But there are, however, severe consequences for losing sight of the long-term goals with greed and impatience.

The author of this article must read this board or something and was as annoyed with some of the comments as I am.  Bravo.
Why aren't you annoyed about watching a 100 loss team ? Why aren't you annoyed about not improving a roster beyond 1 year deals ?

Payroll has often been talked about. You don't have to be the highest paid team but having a higher payroll will increase your chances of becoming a playoff team. As has been said many times it is not how much you spend but how wisely you spend it.
You keep talking in absolutes, like the didn't trade for Rizzo (under control for 6 years)- extend Castro (under control for 6 years)- sign a closer for three years, sign a RF for 2 years, trade for Wood (under control for 3 years). There are players being added/extended for more than 1 year, so STOP with the crazy talk.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 3:47 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



absolutebadger wrote:
You keep talking in absolutes, like the didn't trade for Rizzo (under control for 6 years)- extend Castro (under control for 6 years)- sign a closer for three years, sign a RF for 2 years, trade for Wood (under control for 3 years). There are players being added/extended for more than 1 year, so STOP with the crazy talk.
The Rizzo / Wood / Dejesus deals were 2 years ago

I said the 1 year deals are from this off-season with Fujikawa as the exception

I would say that the off-season 2 years ago is better than the 8 players signed this offseason.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 4:02 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



cubs2007 wrote:
absolutebadger wrote:
You keep talking in absolutes, like the didn't trade for Rizzo (under control for 6 years)- extend Castro (under control for 6 years)- sign a closer for three years, sign a RF for 2 years, trade for Wood (under control for 3 years). There are players being added/extended for more than 1 year, so STOP with the crazy talk.
The Rizzo / Wood / Dejesus deals were 2 years ago

I said the 1 year deals are from this off-season with Fujikawa as the exception

I would say that the off-season 2 years ago is better than the 8 players signed this offseason.
Strictly speaking, it was last year, so 1 year ago. Theo and Gang have only been in charge for a little more than a year.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 4:08 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
The Rizzo / Wood / Dejesus deals were 2 years ago

I said the 1 year deals are from this off-season with Fujikawa as the exception

I would say that the off-season 2 years ago is better than the 8 players signed this offseason.
Strictly speaking, it was last year, so 1 year ago. Theo and Gang have only been in charge for a little more than a year.
Which acquistions do you like better ?

The ones obtained before the 2012 season or the ones obtained before the 2013 season ?
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Posted: 12/10/2012 4:33 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



cubs2007 wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
The Rizzo / Wood / Dejesus deals were 2 years ago

I said the 1 year deals are from this off-season with Fujikawa as the exception

I would say that the off-season 2 years ago is better than the 8 players signed this offseason.
Strictly speaking, it was last year, so 1 year ago. Theo and Gang have only been in charge for a little more than a year.
Which acquistions do you like better ?

The ones obtained before the 2012 season or the ones obtained before the 2013 season ?
Well, first consider that this offseason isn't over yet. They have said that they still have a lot they want to do, FWIW.

Assuming the offseason was over this second, I would still say it is premature to say which offseason was better.

I know you like the first offseason better because of the acquisition of Rizzo...and because you have the benefit of hindsight to see that Maholm did well and Rizzo did well. It helps also that Cashner did not set the world on fire for the Padres.

What if Cashner looks like an ace starter for the Padres in 2013, Rizzo declines some and Feldman and Baker pitch well in 2013? Then maybe this current offseason looks better.

Also, as I've said before, you could get a Rizzo because you gave up a Cashner. Who are you giving up to get your Olt or Gyorko? Samardzija? You really want to do that? Remember that to get a guy we want, we have to give up a guy or guys the other team actually wants too.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 4:58 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



cubs2007 wrote:
absolutebadger wrote:
You keep talking in absolutes, like the didn't trade for Rizzo (under control for 6 years)- extend Castro (under control for 6 years)- sign a closer for three years, sign a RF for 2 years, trade for Wood (under control for 3 years). There are players being added/extended for more than 1 year, so STOP with the crazy talk.
The Rizzo / Wood / Dejesus deals were 2 years ago

I said the 1 year deals are from this off-season with Fujikawa as the exception

I would say that the off-season 2 years ago is better than the 8 players signed this offseason.
It was last year!! Some of the moves are less than 1 year old. What is wrong with you? Theo hasn't even been with the team for 14 months yet.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 5:01 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



absolutebadger wrote:
It was last year!! Some of the moves are less than 1 year old. What is wrong with you? Theo hasn't even been with the team for 14 months yet.
To be clear - Before the 2012 season made trades for Rizzo / Wood & signed Maholm & Dejesus

Before the 2013 season has signed 7 players to 1 year deals -
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Posted: 12/10/2012 6:19 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 



cubs2007 wrote:
CoachK34 wrote:
Its definitely frustrating to watch this team.

Who would you over pay to have come here right now?
In the past 2 off seasons has any player been signed to a long term deal you would consider a good value ?

It did not have to be free agent signings. Has there been any trades that improved teams the past 2 off-seasons ?
Why don't you answer the question?
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Posted: 12/10/2012 8:36 PM

Re: Throwing $ at the Problem 




---------------------------------------------
--- KatieCubFan wrote:


cubs2007 wrote:
CoachK34 wrote:
Its definitely frustrating to watch this team.

Who would you over pay to have come here right now?
In the past 2 off seasons has any player been signed to a long term deal you would consider a good value ?

It did not have to be free agent signings. Has there been any trades that improved teams the past 2 off-seasons ?
Why don't you answer the question?

---------------------------------------------

Thank you Katie
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