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Team so far

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Posted: 12/7/2012 8:45 AM

Team so far 


From Chicagonow-

Here is your starting 9...

  • C: Welington Castillo
  • 1B: Anthony Rizzo (L)
  • 2B: Darwin Barney
  • SS: Starlin Castro
  • 3B: Ian Stewart (L)
  • LF: Alfonso Soriano
  • CF: David DeJesus* (L)
  • RF: Nate Schierholtz* (L)

*Dave Sappelt will likely spell one of these players vs. LHP.

Reserves:

  • C: Dioner Navarro (S)
  • IF: Edwin Maysonnet
  • IF: Luis Valbuena (L)
  • OF: Dave Sappelt
  • OF: Tony Campana or Bryan Bogusevic (L)

Rotation:

  1. Matt Garza
  2. Jeff Samardzija
  3. Scott Baker
  4. Travis Wood (L)
  5. Scott Feldman

Bullpen:

  • CL: Carlos Marmol
  • Kyuji Fujikawa
  • James Russell (L)
  • Sean Camp
  • Michael Bowden
  • Hector Rondon
  • Jeff Beliveau (L)
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  • CUWPC
  • Rookie
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Posted: 12/7/2012 9:09 AM

Re: Team so far 


I say better than last year. Plus, you may see trades of Soriano, Garza, Barney, and Marmol. And maybe even Wood, Baker, and Feldman if they stay healthy and produce.

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Posted: 12/7/2012 9:55 AM

Re: Team so far 


Quick Analysis:

Starting Pitching: Worse than what they started 2012 with. Douche or no, Dempster led MLB in ERA the first half, and Maholm did well enough to get us a very nice return. That is a very high bar for Feldman and Baker to meet. I think they will be decent, but they aren't matching that. Better performances from Samardzija/Garza/Wood might even it out.

Relief Pitching: Better than what started 2012. No Kerry Wood debacle. Less gambling with the bullpen hopefully yields better results.

Position Players:

C: Better. More ABs for Castillo is an upgrade over all the ABs given to Soto last year.

1B: Same. Remember that LaHair started 2012 well enough to get an All-Star nod. 

2B: Better. Expect a slight improvement from Barney.

SS: Better. Expect a slight improvement from Castro.

3B: Better. Stewart is either healthier or Valbuena is slightly better or Vitters steps up...3B was very bad last year, so I have to think this will be at least slightly better.

LF: Worse. Soriano was awesome last year relative to what was expected at this point. Would love to see it again, but don't expect a repeat of the offense. I think the improved defense remains because he actually learned more.

CF: Better. 2012 started with Marlon Byrd and involved way too much Joe Mather. DeJesus is an upgrade from that, and a DeJesus platoon with a decent hitter for LHPs would be much better.

RF: Worse. Schierholtz is a similar guy to DeJesus, but with a lower OPS. He is also a great platoon, however, so if he gets a decent righty platoon guy with him, this could switch to better.

Bench: Same. Maybe slightly better because the platoon situation will get you bench guys who have more ABs. Worse because some of these platoon guys are terrible against either righty or left pitchers, making it easy to work around them with a situational LOOGY, etc. if needed.

Overall: About the same. Most things are improved, but just a little while the starting pitching is worse.

Now, keep in mind that this is comparing to the start of 2012 ...that team was bad, but not a 100-loss team by any stretch. The losses piled up once the starting pitching went away, along with Reed Johnson and Jeff Baker I suppose, but the pitching was the key.

If we truly get the good righty platoons to boost CF and RF and if the pitching delivers, it might not be unwatchable.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 9:58 AM

Re: Team so far 



CUWPC wrote:I say better than last year.

I agree. They should be able to pick up the ball though I am curious to see how DeJesus does in CF everyday. That could be a struggle. He is a very good RF defensively but isn't the same player in CF. Got some youth obviously with Rizzo, Barney, Castro, Castillo and there really isn't any old players outside of Soriano. Not a lot of power though they do have 5 players in the everyday lineup that could hit theoretically 20+ HR's each (Rizzo, Soriano, Castro, Castillo, Stewart). Starting pitching looks better but a lot of question marks. To me, that is the team's key weakness to not having enough power and speed overall. Their SP really is a lot of question marks. Bullpen could be pretty good and will have to see how the bench is finally formed.

I agree with some commentators have stated locally. They should be more competitive this season but still aren't going to contend for anything.

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Posted: 12/7/2012 10:06 AM

Re: Team so far 



SportsGoblin wrote: Quick Analysis:

Starting Pitching: Worse than what they started 2012 with. Douche or no, Dempster led MLB in ERA the first half, and Maholm did well enough to get us a very nice return. That is a very high bar for Feldman and Baker to meet. I think they will be decent, but they aren't matching that. Better performances from Samardzija/Garza/Wood might even it out.

Relief Pitching: Better than what started 2012. No Kerry Wood debacle. Less gambling with the bullpen hopefully yields better results.

Position Players:

C: Better. More ABs for Castillo is an upgrade over all the ABs given to Soto last year.

1B: Same. Remember that LaHair started 2012 well enough to get an All-Star nod. 

2B: Better. Expect a slight improvement from Barney.

SS: Better. Expect a slight improvement from Castro.

3B: Better. Stewart is either healthier or Valbuena is slightly better or Vitters steps up...3B was very bad last year, so I have to think this will be at least slightly better.

LF: Worse. Soriano was awesome last year relative to what was expected at this point. Would love to see it again, but don't expect a repeat of the offense. I think the improved defense remains because he actually learned more.

CF: Better. 2012 started with Marlon Byrd and involved way too much Joe Mather. DeJesus is an upgrade from that, and a DeJesus platoon with a decent hitter for LHPs would be much better.

RF: Worse. Schierholtz is a similar guy to DeJesus, but with a lower OPS. He is also a great platoon, however, so if he gets a decent righty platoon guy with him, this could switch to better.

Bench: Same. Maybe slightly better because the platoon situation will get you bench guys who have more ABs. Worse because some of these platoon guys are terrible against either righty or left pitchers, making it easy to work around them with a situational LOOGY, etc. if needed.

Overall: About the same. Most things are improved, but just a little while the starting pitching is worse.

Now, keep in mind that this is comparing to the start of 2012 ...that team was bad, but not a 100-loss team by any stretch. The losses piled up once the starting pitching went away, along with Reed Johnson and Jeff Baker I suppose, but the pitching was the key.

If we truly get the good righty platoons to boost CF and RF and if the pitching delivers, it might not be unwatchable.

That is what I am most interested in watching on a everyday basis along with Rizzo. Can Castro continue into the hitter they want? I freely admit that at first, I wasn't in the camp of changing him. But the more I look at it, the more it made sense. What is the value of a hitter who might bat .315 but just slaps at the ball and can't get on base? Rather, it is more valuable to have someone bat .290 but be able to drive the ball more and hit for more power numbers. He really struggled with it at during most of the summer, but as the summer wore on and we got into fall, he look much more comfortable at the plate.

If that continues combined with Rizzo, Castillo and Barney's development, the Cubs are slowly building a nice core.

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Posted: 12/7/2012 10:32 AM

Re: Team so far 



SportsGoblin wrote: Quick Analysis:

Now, keep in mind that this is comparing to the start of 2012 ...that team was bad, but not a 100-loss team by any stretch. The losses piled up once the starting pitching went away, along with Reed Johnson and Jeff Baker I suppose, but the pitching was the key.


Isn't everyone expecting Garza, Baker & Feldman to be traded for more prospects ?
Won't the losses pile up again sarting next August ?
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Posted: 12/7/2012 10:05 PM

Re: Team so far 


August, 2013... we'll be rearranging our A-AA teams to accomodate new players and doing our best to ignore the on-field product again. In terms of a bullpen, we are better now (unless we trade Marmol prior to July). In terms of catching, we are better (Navarro is a vast improvement over Clevenger). In terms of starting pitching, we are worse (Maholm/Dempster was vastly superior to Feldman/Baker). In terms of offense, we are equally weak. Unless we add an OF that can hit more than singles and doubles (or steal 30+ bases with good .OBP) and one more legitimate MLB rotation option (Baker may not be ready in March/April), we are headed back into 100-loss territory for 2013. There is no happy spin on this one... I wish there were. We still lack a lead-off hitter, a clean-up hitter, a dependable (ideal) #7 hitter (it sure isn't Castillo, Stewart, or Schierholtz), and we have three #5 starters in our rotation. The good news is we'll be well positioned to draft Mark Appel in 2013 and then spin him into a second 2014 first round pick when Boras prices him out of affordability (again). rolleyes

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”  ~Albert Einstein

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  • jb95695
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Posted: 12/7/2012 11:02 PM

Re: Team so far 


That lineup sucks and without the Astros to beat up on, this team will lose 100 games or more.
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Posted: 12/8/2012 7:59 AM

Re: Team so far 



mindbodyspirit wrote: August, 2013... we'll be rearranging our A-AA teams to accomodate new players and doing our best to ignore the on-field product again. In terms of a bullpen, we are better now (unless we trade Marmol prior to July). In terms of catching, we are better (Navarro is a vast improvement over Clevenger). In terms of starting pitching, we are worse (Maholm/Dempster was vastly superior to Feldman/Baker). In terms of offense, we are equally weak. Unless we add an OF that can hit more than singles and doubles (or steal 30+ bases with good .OBP) and one more legitimate MLB rotation option (Baker may not be ready in March/April), we are headed back into 100-loss territory for 2013. There is no happy spin on this one... I wish there were. We still lack a lead-off hitter, a clean-up hitter, a dependable (ideal) #7 hitter (it sure isn't Castillo, Stewart, or Schierholtz), and we have three #5 starters in our rotation. The good news is we'll be well positioned to draft Mark Appel in 2013 and then spin him into a second 2014 first round pick when Boras prices him out of affordability (again). rolleyes

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  • RAMBLE
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Posted: 12/8/2012 10:30 AM

Re: Team so far 


It strikes me, as the NFL's Bill Parcells used to say, a "hold the fort" lineup. One that'll waste a year as we wait for talent development. I'm fine with that because I'm only interested in a great team. Not interested in a .500 club. I realize most DO NOT feel that way.
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Posted: 12/8/2012 2:04 PM

Re: Team so far 



RAMBLE wrote: It strikes me, as the NFL's Bill Parcells used to say, a "hold the fort" lineup. One that'll waste a year as we wait for talent development. I'm fine with that because I'm only interested in a great team. Not interested in a .500 club. I realize most DO NOT feel that way.
You already wasted 2012 and now you are willing to waste 2013. Besides player development why are you so optimistic ? Who is coming up from the minors to help this year ?

At least last season you had Rizzo and Jackson to look forward to along with Vitters , Dolis and a couple other bullpen arms.
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Posted: 12/8/2012 2:44 PM

Re: Team so far 



cubs2007 wrote:
RAMBLE wrote: It strikes me, as the NFL's Bill Parcells used to say, a "hold the fort" lineup. One that'll waste a year as we wait for talent development. I'm fine with that because I'm only interested in a great team. Not interested in a .500 club. I realize most DO NOT feel that way.
You already wasted 2012 and now you are willing to waste 2013. Besides player development why are you so optimistic ? Who is coming up from the minors to help this year ?

At least last season you had Rizzo and Jackson to look forward to along with Vitters , Dolis and a couple other bullpen arms.
Personally I'm willing to "waste" 2013 and I'm willing to "waste" 2014 as well.  I've waited 30 years for this organization to stop being inept.  I've waited 30 years wondering why the Cubs couldn't be more like the Braves or the Cards.  I've waited 30 years watching this club swing from apathetic to idiotic.  I have absolutely no problems waiting a few more to see what a front office with a great track record and full support from ownership can do.  Not sure how many times this needs to be said before you stop asking the same question over and over.  I also think people are underestimating what a team full of decent players can do.
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  • RAMBLE
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Posted: 12/8/2012 2:49 PM

Re: Team so far 



cubs2007 wrote:
RAMBLE wrote: It strikes me, as the NFL's Bill Parcells used to say, a "hold the fort" lineup. One that'll waste a year as we wait for talent development. I'm fine with that because I'm only interested in a great team. Not interested in a .500 club. I realize most DO NOT feel that way.
You already wasted 2012 and now you are willing to waste 2013. Besides player development why are you so optimistic ? Who is coming up from the minors to help this year ?

At least last season you had Rizzo and Jackson to look forward to along with Vitters , Dolis and a couple other bullpen arms.
Get your point and frustration. I don't know who may be ready. Maybe no one. But, I do like the feel of the prospects like Almora, Baez, etc. And I just trust that Theo et al. will do what they've done elsewhere. I'm willing to wait.
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Posted: 12/8/2012 2:54 PM

Re: Team so far 



zighawk73 wrote:
cubs2007 wrote:
RAMBLE wrote: It strikes me, as the NFL's Bill Parcells used to say, a "hold the fort" lineup. One that'll waste a year as we wait for talent development. I'm fine with that because I'm only interested in a great team. Not interested in a .500 club. I realize most DO NOT feel that way.
You already wasted 2012 and now you are willing to waste 2013. Besides player development why are you so optimistic ? Who is coming up from the minors to help this year ?

At least last season you had Rizzo and Jackson to look forward to along with Vitters , Dolis and a couple other bullpen arms.
Personally I'm willing to "waste" 2013 and I'm willing to "waste" 2014 as well.  I've waited 30 years for this organization to stop being inept.  I've waited 30 years wondering why the Cubs couldn't be more like the Braves or the Cards.  I've waited 30 years watching this club swing from apathetic to idiotic.  I have absolutely no problems waiting a few more to see what a front office with a great track record and full support from ownership can do.  Not sure how many times this needs to be said before you stop asking the same question over and over.  I also think people are underestimating what a team full of decent players can do.
+1

Only thing I can add to what Zig said is that I have waited over 50 years, and I am willing to wait a few more. I am tired of losing, I am tired of rooting for an organization that was inept, I have no interest in signing a few free agents so we win 84 games. For the last time, We get quality people in the farm system and develop them. As we get them thru the system and bring them up, we will see which of them pans out and which doesnt. At that point, you start signing a few free agents to fill in the blanks. In my lifetime on this planet, we have never tried it this way. We have tried every other way and failed. Therefore, I am perfectly willing to let them try it their way.
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Posted: 12/8/2012 2:55 PM

Re: Team so far 



zighawk73 wrote:
You already wasted 2012 and now you are willing to waste 2013. Besides player development why are you so optimistic ? Who is coming up from the minors to help this year ?

At least last season you had Rizzo and Jackson to look forward to along with Vitters , Dolis and a couple other bullpen arms.
Personally I'm willing to "waste" 2013 and I'm willing to "waste" 2014 as well.  I've waited 30 years for this organization to stop being inept.  I've waited 30 years wondering why the Cubs couldn't be more like the Braves or the Cards.  I've waited 30 years watching this club swing from apathetic to idiotic.  I have absolutely no problems waiting a few more to see what a front office with a great track record and full support from ownership can do.  Not sure how many times this needs to be said before you stop asking the same question over and over.  I also think people are underestimating what a team full of decent players can do.
I'm asking the same question because I'm not getting an answer. The front office does not have a track record of dismantling a team then rebuilding. They have a track record of taking over a very good team and maintaining and adding with a big budget and building a farm system with methods no longer available. What are you basing your blind optimism on ?
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Posted: 12/8/2012 3:35 PM

Re: Team so far 



cubs2007 wrote:
zighawk73 wrote:
You already wasted 2012 and now you are willing to waste 2013. Besides player development why are you so optimistic ? Who is coming up from the minors to help this year ?

At least last season you had Rizzo and Jackson to look forward to along with Vitters , Dolis and a couple other bullpen arms.
Personally I'm willing to "waste" 2013 and I'm willing to "waste" 2014 as well.  I've waited 30 years for this organization to stop being inept.  I've waited 30 years wondering why the Cubs couldn't be more like the Braves or the Cards.  I've waited 30 years watching this club swing from apathetic to idiotic.  I have absolutely no problems waiting a few more to see what a front office with a great track record and full support from ownership can do.  Not sure how many times this needs to be said before you stop asking the same question over and over.  I also think people are underestimating what a team full of decent players can do.
I'm asking the same question because I'm not getting an answer. The front office does not have a track record of dismantling a team then rebuilding. They have a track record of taking over a very good team and maintaining and adding with a big budget and building a farm system with methods no longer available. What are you basing your blind optimism on ?
What do you mean no longer available?  The method for building a farm system is to stock up on prospects which they're still managing to do.
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  • RAMBLE
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Posted: 12/8/2012 4:27 PM

Re: Team so far 


Let me add that I certainly wouldn't be against getting a legit quality starter at any position, as long as we have control of him/her beyond when we can reasonably expect/hope to be seriously contending.
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  • RAMBLE
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Posted: 12/8/2012 6:33 PM

Re: Team so far 


Is this good or bad?

Click on the link too

Paul Sullivan @ PWSullivan Cubs average salary drops from 7th to 23rd in 2012, and sinking still. # SmallMarket http:// bo.st/RioweX
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Posted: 12/8/2012 7:27 PM

Re: Team so far 


It may not work but I like the idea of focusing firmly on the future instead trying to win now and build for the future.  I feel more comfortable with Theo and Hoyer making the decisions than anyone else we have had and other than Friedman there is no one else I would rather have.
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Posted: 12/8/2012 10:08 PM

RE: Team so far 


Gotta get rid of all the crap contracts...then some spending will begin...good business.
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