cubs2007 wrote: From the article -

"I don't mind a platoon as long as you have good players," Epstein said. "If you throw a couple has-beens or '4A' guys out there and call it a platoon, that's not enough."

At least Epstein acknowledges there are 4A players which last off-season he didn't believe there were.

Lets hope he aims higher than a Valbuena / Vitters type platoon at 3b and Sappelt / Campana on the OF.

KatieCubFan wrote:

cubs2007 wrote: From the article -

"I don't mind a platoon as long as you have good players," Epstein said. "If you throw a couple has-beens or '4A' guys out there and call it a platoon, that's not enough."

At least Epstein acknowledges there are 4A players which last off-season he didn't believe there were.

Lets hope he aims higher than a Valbuena / Vitters type platoon at 3b and Sappelt / Campana on the OF.

LOL, it took him coming here to realize there is such a thing as 4A players.  But it's a little early to dismiss Vitters as one.  It doesn't necessarily look promising but using such a small sample size in the majors isn't fair to anyone.

EamusCatuli wrote: Olt may be available.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/...e-interest.html

Garza and...??

mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).

Ian Stewart, who recently got a clean bill of health with his hand/wrist problems,suddenly has drawn wide interest from teams looking for 3B

zbenson wrote: Bob Nightengale ‏ @ BNightengale

Ian Stewart, who recently got a clean bill of health with his hand/wrist problems,suddenly has drawn wide interest from teams looking for 3B

KatieCubFan wrote:

mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.

KatieCubFan wrote:

mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.

Yeah you would need to give up a nice piece of your farm system to get Olt but it could be worth it. Olt/Castro/Barney/Rizzo is one hell of a young up and coming infield.

SportsGoblin wrote:

KatieCubFan wrote:

mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.

I'm not seeing something with Olt. He put up very nice minor league numbers in 2012 and great power (28HR in 420PA). But this was AA. When brought to the majors, in 40AB he wet the bed (.152BA, .432OPS).

But we will trade Lake, Russell and Wood for this guy?

Vitters put up nice numbers in AAA for the Cubs (not as nice as Olt, but AAA not AA). And I know Vitters has kicked around in our system a while, but he is actually a year younger than Olt (24 vs. 23). And we don't have to give up anything to give him another try.

Is it scouting? Swing? Defense? What leads us to believe Olt will end up being much better than Vitters?

absolutebadger wrote:

SportsGoblin wrote:

KatieCubFan wrote:

mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.

I'm not seeing something with Olt. He put up very nice minor league numbers in 2012 and great power (28HR in 420PA). But this was AA. When brought to the majors, in 40AB he wet the bed (.152BA, .432OPS).

But we will trade Lake, Russell and Wood for this guy?

Vitters put up nice numbers in AAA for the Cubs (not as nice as Olt, but AAA not AA). And I know Vitters has kicked around in our system a while, but he is actually a year younger than Olt (24 vs. 23). And we don't have to give up anything to give him another try.

Is it scouting? Swing? Defense? What leads us to believe Olt will end up being much better than Vitters?

Well, Vitters is a year younger. That is what you had right.

#1 Vitters is not a good fielder- career .904 fielding % in the minors vs .957 for Olt
#2 Vitters has 101 walks in 2100 PA vs 150 walks in 1000 PA for Olt
#3 Vitters has homered in 3% of his PA vs 5% for Olt
#4 Vitters at AA was average- Olt was incredible
#5 40 PA in the majors is way too small a sample size

• Vitters supposedly has gotten better defensively recently. Enough to close that gap? No idea.
• In 2012, while Olt was great in AA at age 23, Vitters was good ...in AAA...at age 22. Isn't AAA harder than AA? Actually asking here, since I know the PCL for AAA is often a hitters paradise. But if AAA is harder than AA, than being good in AAA at age 22 might be better than being great in AA at age 23, no?
• Agreed that 40PA is way too small a sample size to say anything. Similarly, Vitters 109PA in the majors is way too small to say he can't succeed, right?

SportsGoblin wrote:

absolutebadger wrote:

SportsGoblin wrote:

KatieCubFan wrote:

mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.

I'm not seeing something with Olt. He put up very nice minor league numbers in 2012 and great power (28HR in 420PA). But this was AA. When brought to the majors, in 40AB he wet the bed (.152BA, .432OPS).

But we will trade Lake, Russell and Wood for this guy?

Vitters put up nice numbers in AAA for the Cubs (not as nice as Olt, but AAA not AA). And I know Vitters has kicked around in our system a while, but he is actually a year younger than Olt (24 vs. 23). And we don't have to give up anything to give him another try.

Is it scouting? Swing? Defense? What leads us to believe Olt will end up being much better than Vitters?

Well, Vitters is a year younger. That is what you had right.

#1 Vitters is not a good fielder- career .904 fielding % in the minors vs .957 for Olt
#2 Vitters has 101 walks in 2100 PA vs 150 walks in 1000 PA for Olt
#3 Vitters has homered in 3% of his PA vs 5% for Olt
#4 Vitters at AA was average- Olt was incredible
#5 40 PA in the majors is way too small a sample size

Ok, that's reasonable. Couple points:

• Vitters supposedly has gotten better defensively recently. Enough to close that gap? No idea.
• In 2012, while Olt was great in AA at age 23, Vitters was good ...in AAA...at age 22. Isn't AAA harder than AA? Actually asking here, since I know the PCL for AAA is often a hitters paradise. But if AAA is harder than AA, than being good in AAA at age 22 might be better than being great in AA at age 23, no?
• Agreed that 40PA is way too small a sample size to say anything. Similarly, Vitters 109PA in the majors is way too small to say he can't succeed, right?

All things being equal, I think Olt is probably better. Advantage in defense and OBP would make him a Theo guy no doubt, and the HR potential is intriguing.

That said, all things are not equal, with the Cubs (or some other team) having to give up the farm to get Olt. Given all the above, I think I might be inclined to give Vitters every chance to succeed. At the very least you need to drive up his value so that you can get something for him, either as a player or in a trade.

absolutebadger wrote:

SportsGoblin wrote:

absolutebadger wrote:

SportsGoblin wrote:

KatieCubFan wrote:

mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.

I'm not seeing something with Olt. He put up very nice minor league numbers in 2012 and great power (28HR in 420PA). But this was AA. When brought to the majors, in 40AB he wet the bed (.152BA, .432OPS).

But we will trade Lake, Russell and Wood for this guy?

Vitters put up nice numbers in AAA for the Cubs (not as nice as Olt, but AAA not AA). And I know Vitters has kicked around in our system a while, but he is actually a year younger than Olt (24 vs. 23). And we don't have to give up anything to give him another try.

Is it scouting? Swing? Defense? What leads us to believe Olt will end up being much better than Vitters?

Well, Vitters is a year younger. That is what you had right.

#1 Vitters is not a good fielder- career .904 fielding % in the minors vs .957 for Olt
#2 Vitters has 101 walks in 2100 PA vs 150 walks in 1000 PA for Olt
#3 Vitters has homered in 3% of his PA vs 5% for Olt
#4 Vitters at AA was average- Olt was incredible
#5 40 PA in the majors is way too small a sample size

Ok, that's reasonable. Couple points:

• Vitters supposedly has gotten better defensively recently. Enough to close that gap? No idea.
• In 2012, while Olt was great in AA at age 23, Vitters was good ...in AAA...at age 22. Isn't AAA harder than AA? Actually asking here, since I know the PCL for AAA is often a hitters paradise. But if AAA is harder than AA, than being good in AAA at age 22 might be better than being great in AA at age 23, no?
• Agreed that 40PA is way too small a sample size to say anything. Similarly, Vitters 109PA in the majors is way too small to say he can't succeed, right?

All things being equal, I think Olt is probably better. Advantage in defense and OBP would make him a Theo guy no doubt, and the HR potential is intriguing.

That said, all things are not equal, with the Cubs (or some other team) having to give up the farm to get Olt. Given all the above, I think I might be inclined to give Vitters every chance to succeed. At the very least you need to drive up his value so that you can get something for him, either as a player or in a trade.

I think the age difference means more if they both were drafted at the same time. Vitters has twice as many professional PA's. Yes, the PCL is a hitters paradise. Vitters sample size is also too small to say he can't make it. His glove and his inability to walk are reasons you keep him at AAA. If he makes strides in those 2 areas you give him another shot. Trading for an Olt, doesn't change anything regarding Vitters.

This team has a huge hole at 3B and is the hardest hole to fill. If you have the chance to fill that spot with an elite prospect, I think you take the chance. A three team trade with Olt, Upton and Beaz is interesting to me.