Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
InboxChat RoomChat Room (0 fans in chatroom)
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 3  Next >

3B

  • RAMBLE
  • Franchise Player
  • 1742 posts this site

Posted: 12/3/2012 11:26 PM

3B 


Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/4/2012 8:24 AM

Re: 3B 


From the article -

"I don't mind a platoon as long as you have good players," Epstein said. "If you throw a couple has-beens or '4A' guys out there and call it a platoon, that's not enough."

At least Epstein acknowledges there are 4A players which last off-season he didn't believe there were.

Lets hope he aims higher than a Valbuena / Vitters type platoon at 3b and Sappelt / Campana on the OF.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/4/2012 8:45 AM

Re: 3B 


One rumored option - Cubs looking at Yunel Escobar
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:09 AM

Re: 3B 



cubs2007 wrote: From the article -

"I don't mind a platoon as long as you have good players," Epstein said. "If you throw a couple has-beens or '4A' guys out there and call it a platoon, that's not enough."

At least Epstein acknowledges there are 4A players which last off-season he didn't believe there were.

Lets hope he aims higher than a Valbuena / Vitters type platoon at 3b and Sappelt / Campana on the OF.

LOL, it took him coming here to realize there is such a thing as 4A players.  But it's a little early to dismiss Vitters as one.  It doesn't necessarily look promising but using such a small sample size in the majors isn't fair to anyone.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:37 AM

Re: 3B 



KatieCubFan wrote:
cubs2007 wrote: From the article -

"I don't mind a platoon as long as you have good players," Epstein said. "If you throw a couple has-beens or '4A' guys out there and call it a platoon, that's not enough."

At least Epstein acknowledges there are 4A players which last off-season he didn't believe there were.

Lets hope he aims higher than a Valbuena / Vitters type platoon at 3b and Sappelt / Campana on the OF.

LOL, it took him coming here to realize there is such a thing as 4A players.  But it's a little early to dismiss Vitters as one.  It doesn't necessarily look promising but using such a small sample size in the majors isn't fair to anyone.
If they were going to go the platoon route a possible candidate is Keppinger.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:47 AM

Re: 3B 


Olt may be available.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/...e-interest.html

Garza and...??
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/4/2012 9:53 AM

Re: 3B 



EamusCatuli wrote: Olt may be available.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/...e-interest.html

Garza and...??
Garza needs to show he is healthy and most likely won't be moved until July. I like the idea of going after a player like Olt that actually can fill a need over a stop gap.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/4/2012 10:17 AM

Re: 3B 


I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood). It's a heavy price, but it makes us a better, deeper, and younger club. Again, it's just my guess... But Junior Lake makes a deal for the Rangers with Arizona for Upton more likely. Let's see what happens...

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”  ~Albert Einstein

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/4/2012 10:44 AM

Re: 3B 



mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).
I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 11:03 AM

Re: 3B 


Bob Nightengale @ BNightengale

Ian Stewart, who recently got a clean bill of health with his hand/wrist problems,suddenly has drawn wide interest from teams looking for 3B

Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 11:07 AM

Re: 3B 



zbenson wrote: Bob Nightengale @ BNightengale

Ian Stewart, who recently got a clean bill of health with his hand/wrist problems,suddenly has drawn wide interest from teams looking for 3B


Too bad the CUbs cannot do a sign and trade deal with him.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 11:12 AM

Re: 3B 



KatieCubFan wrote:
mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).
I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.
I'm not seeing something with Olt. He put up very nice minor league numbers in 2012 and great power (28HR in 420PA). But this was AA. When brought to the majors, in 40AB he wet the bed (.152BA, .432OPS).

But we will trade Lake, Russell and Wood for this guy?

Vitters put up nice numbers in AAA for the Cubs (not as nice as Olt, but AAA not AA). And I know Vitters has kicked around in our system a while, but he is actually a year younger than Olt (24 vs. 23). And we don't have to give up anything to give him another try.

Is it scouting? Swing? Defense? What leads us to believe Olt will end up being much better than Vitters?
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/4/2012 11:43 AM

Re: 3B 


I'm not sold on Lake at this point, left-handed specialists are expendable especially to a rebuilding team, and Wood seems destined to be one of those hot/cold type pitchers.

You have a good point regarding the apparent double standard with Olt/Vitters.  It must be scouting.  I also think Olt is thought to be an above average defender.

Last edited 12/4/2012 11:44 AM by KatieCubFan

Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 11:45 AM

Re: 3B 



KatieCubFan wrote:
mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).
I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.
Yes, a long shot prospect, setup man and a #5 will not net one of the top 3B prospects. To get Olt the Cubs would have to part with 2 of their top 5 prospects, or possibly Olt for Beaz.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 12:24 PM

Re: 3B 


Yeah you would need to give up a nice piece of your farm system to get Olt but it could be worth it. Olt/Castro/Barney/Rizzo is one hell of a young up and coming infield.

Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 12:46 PM

Re: 3B 



SportsGoblin wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).
I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.
I'm not seeing something with Olt. He put up very nice minor league numbers in 2012 and great power (28HR in 420PA). But this was AA. When brought to the majors, in 40AB he wet the bed (.152BA, .432OPS).

But we will trade Lake, Russell and Wood for this guy?

Vitters put up nice numbers in AAA for the Cubs (not as nice as Olt, but AAA not AA). And I know Vitters has kicked around in our system a while, but he is actually a year younger than Olt (24 vs. 23). And we don't have to give up anything to give him another try.

Is it scouting? Swing? Defense? What leads us to believe Olt will end up being much better than Vitters?
Well, Vitters is a year younger. That is what you had right.

#1 Vitters is not a good fielder- career .904 fielding % in the minors vs .957 for Olt
#2 Vitters has 101 walks in 2100 PA vs 150 walks in 1000 PA for Olt
#3 Vitters has homered in 3% of his PA vs 5% for Olt
#4 Vitters at AA was average- Olt was incredible
#5 40 PA in the majors is way too small a sample size
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 1:37 PM

Re: 3B 



absolutebadger wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).
I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.
I'm not seeing something with Olt. He put up very nice minor league numbers in 2012 and great power (28HR in 420PA). But this was AA. When brought to the majors, in 40AB he wet the bed (.152BA, .432OPS).

But we will trade Lake, Russell and Wood for this guy?

Vitters put up nice numbers in AAA for the Cubs (not as nice as Olt, but AAA not AA). And I know Vitters has kicked around in our system a while, but he is actually a year younger than Olt (24 vs. 23). And we don't have to give up anything to give him another try.

Is it scouting? Swing? Defense? What leads us to believe Olt will end up being much better than Vitters?
Well, Vitters is a year younger. That is what you had right.

#1 Vitters is not a good fielder- career .904 fielding % in the minors vs .957 for Olt
#2 Vitters has 101 walks in 2100 PA vs 150 walks in 1000 PA for Olt
#3 Vitters has homered in 3% of his PA vs 5% for Olt
#4 Vitters at AA was average- Olt was incredible
#5 40 PA in the majors is way too small a sample size
Ok, that's reasonable. Couple points:
  • Vitters supposedly has gotten better defensively recently. Enough to close that gap? No idea.
  • In 2012, while Olt was great in AA at age 23, Vitters was good ...in AAA...at age 22. Isn't AAA harder than AA? Actually asking here, since I know the PCL for AAA is often a hitters paradise. But if AAA is harder than AA, than being good in AAA at age 22 might be better than being great in AA at age 23, no?
  • Agreed that 40PA is way too small a sample size to say anything. Similarly, Vitters 109PA in the majors is way too small to say he can't succeed, right?

All things being equal, I think Olt is probably better. Advantage in defense and OBP would make him a Theo guy no doubt, and the HR potential is intriguing.

That said, all things are not equal, with the Cubs (or some other team) having to give up the farm to get Olt. Given all the above, I think I might be inclined to give Vitters every chance to succeed. At the very least you need to drive up his value so that you can get something for him, either as a player or in a trade.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 1:49 PM

Re: 3B 



SportsGoblin wrote:
absolutebadger wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).
I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.
I'm not seeing something with Olt. He put up very nice minor league numbers in 2012 and great power (28HR in 420PA). But this was AA. When brought to the majors, in 40AB he wet the bed (.152BA, .432OPS).

But we will trade Lake, Russell and Wood for this guy?

Vitters put up nice numbers in AAA for the Cubs (not as nice as Olt, but AAA not AA). And I know Vitters has kicked around in our system a while, but he is actually a year younger than Olt (24 vs. 23). And we don't have to give up anything to give him another try.

Is it scouting? Swing? Defense? What leads us to believe Olt will end up being much better than Vitters?
Well, Vitters is a year younger. That is what you had right.

#1 Vitters is not a good fielder- career .904 fielding % in the minors vs .957 for Olt
#2 Vitters has 101 walks in 2100 PA vs 150 walks in 1000 PA for Olt
#3 Vitters has homered in 3% of his PA vs 5% for Olt
#4 Vitters at AA was average- Olt was incredible
#5 40 PA in the majors is way too small a sample size
Ok, that's reasonable. Couple points:
  • Vitters supposedly has gotten better defensively recently. Enough to close that gap? No idea.
  • In 2012, while Olt was great in AA at age 23, Vitters was good ...in AAA...at age 22. Isn't AAA harder than AA? Actually asking here, since I know the PCL for AAA is often a hitters paradise. But if AAA is harder than AA, than being good in AAA at age 22 might be better than being great in AA at age 23, no?
  • Agreed that 40PA is way too small a sample size to say anything. Similarly, Vitters 109PA in the majors is way too small to say he can't succeed, right?

All things being equal, I think Olt is probably better. Advantage in defense and OBP would make him a Theo guy no doubt, and the HR potential is intriguing.

That said, all things are not equal, with the Cubs (or some other team) having to give up the farm to get Olt. Given all the above, I think I might be inclined to give Vitters every chance to succeed. At the very least you need to drive up his value so that you can get something for him, either as a player or in a trade.
I think the age difference means more if they both were drafted at the same time. Vitters has twice as many professional PA's. Yes, the PCL is a hitters paradise. Vitters sample size is also too small to say he can't make it. His glove and his inability to walk are reasons you keep him at AAA. If he makes strides in those 2 areas you give him another shot. Trading for an Olt, doesn't change anything regarding Vitters.

This team has a huge hole at 3B and is the hardest hole to fill. If you have the chance to fill that spot with an elite prospect, I think you take the chance. A three team trade with Olt, Upton and Beaz is interesting to me.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 12/4/2012 1:54 PM

Re: 3B 


Going for a player like Olt is exactly what you should be doing in the Cubs situation. He has the upside and potential to be a long term solution. It makes much more sense than looking for waiver pickups, rule V players, players coming off injuries or bad years, etc.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 12/4/2012 2:13 PM

Re: 3B 



absolutebadger wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
absolutebadger wrote:
SportsGoblin wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
mindbodyspirit wrote: I think if Theo/Hoyer were serious about Olt, a deal would have to center around Junior Lake and at least 1-2 MLB players (my guess would be Russell and Wood).
I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, which probably means the Rangers won't bite.
I'm not seeing something with Olt. He put up very nice minor league numbers in 2012 and great power (28HR in 420PA). But this was AA. When brought to the majors, in 40AB he wet the bed (.152BA, .432OPS).

But we will trade Lake, Russell and Wood for this guy?

Vitters put up nice numbers in AAA for the Cubs (not as nice as Olt, but AAA not AA). And I know Vitters has kicked around in our system a while, but he is actually a year younger than Olt (24 vs. 23). And we don't have to give up anything to give him another try.

Is it scouting? Swing? Defense? What leads us to believe Olt will end up being much better than Vitters?
Well, Vitters is a year younger. That is what you had right.

#1 Vitters is not a good fielder- career .904 fielding % in the minors vs .957 for Olt
#2 Vitters has 101 walks in 2100 PA vs 150 walks in 1000 PA for Olt
#3 Vitters has homered in 3% of his PA vs 5% for Olt
#4 Vitters at AA was average- Olt was incredible
#5 40 PA in the majors is way too small a sample size
Ok, that's reasonable. Couple points:
  • Vitters supposedly has gotten better defensively recently. Enough to close that gap? No idea.
  • In 2012, while Olt was great in AA at age 23, Vitters was good ...in AAA...at age 22. Isn't AAA harder than AA? Actually asking here, since I know the PCL for AAA is often a hitters paradise. But if AAA is harder than AA, than being good in AAA at age 22 might be better than being great in AA at age 23, no?
  • Agreed that 40PA is way too small a sample size to say anything. Similarly, Vitters 109PA in the majors is way too small to say he can't succeed, right?

All things being equal, I think Olt is probably better. Advantage in defense and OBP would make him a Theo guy no doubt, and the HR potential is intriguing.

That said, all things are not equal, with the Cubs (or some other team) having to give up the farm to get Olt. Given all the above, I think I might be inclined to give Vitters every chance to succeed. At the very least you need to drive up his value so that you can get something for him, either as a player or in a trade.
I think the age difference means more if they both were drafted at the same time. Vitters has twice as many professional PA's. Yes, the PCL is a hitters paradise. Vitters sample size is also too small to say he can't make it. His glove and his inability to walk are reasons you keep him at AAA. If he makes strides in those 2 areas you give him another shot. Trading for an Olt, doesn't change anything regarding Vitters.

This team has a huge hole at 3B and is the hardest hole to fill. If you have the chance to fill that spot with an elite prospect, I think you take the chance. A three team trade with Olt, Upton and Beaz is interesting to me.
If you were to trade for Olt, it would change everything regarding Vitters. You effectively block Vitters, leaving you to either trade him or switch his position...assuming he puts up good numbers in 2013 in AAA. And how do you start 2013? With both fighting for playing time in AAA at 3B?
Reply | Quote
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 3  Next >