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Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now

Posted: 6/8/2014 2:18 PM

Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


is the Manny we are going to see. I hear often that he didn't get spring training and offseason workouts were less. I get that. But he has now played in 34 games this year after his extended spring. Not a small sample size.

Last year his average and OPS post All Star game were .240 and .670

His average and OPS so far this year are .241 and .650. And his OPS has been improving a bit the last two weeks pushing closer to the post ASB numbers of last year.

So maybe this is what he will be? Certainly we all hope we get a long term Manny that is along the lines of last years first half numbers which were .310 and .807. And perhaps the long term numbers will be somewhere in between which would probably be nice

But I am beginning to think that perhaps the last half of last season was the bigger picture?
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Posted: 6/8/2014 6:45 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


Hate to say it, but I have been thinking the same thing. Love his 'd'--but maybe he isn't the hitter we thought he would be. I agree, its time to shelve the small sample size and no spring training excuses.
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Posted: 6/8/2014 7:57 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


I am still hopeful that the long term lies between the two ends we have seen. Time will tell. But I lost a little love for Manny today after his behavior this weekend..redface
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Posted: 6/8/2014 10:10 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


Geez man, the kid is 21. I was a dumbass when I was 21. Give him a break. You guys are a tough crowd. As for the hitting, he hit 51 doubles in his age 20/21 season. If you think "this is what he will be," that is, a sub-700 OPS hitter, fine....but I think that's ridiculous. Most guys his age are still in AA.
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Posted: 6/8/2014 10:38 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 



ripken4prez wrote: Geez man, the kid is 21. I was a dumbass when I was 21. Give him a break. You guys are a tough crowd. As for the hitting, he hit 51 doubles in his age 20/21 season. If you think "this is what he will be," that is, a sub-700 OPS hitter, fine....but I think that's ridiculous. Most guys his age are still in AA.

Yeah so were most of us.But we also don't have handlers and trainers and coaches and aren't paid millions. So yeah the expectations are a tad bit different. I wouldn't even comment on it and just write it off for his youth but he also was out of line on Friday with the whole nothing at third base. Hopefully he's just frustrated that things aren't going well for the club right now.

Last edited 6/8/2014 10:45 PM by ifsteve

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Posted: 6/8/2014 10:43 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


He'll get suspended one game.  Whatever.  He's just frustrated. There's nothing to it.

howdy
-verycoolnin

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Posted: 6/8/2014 11:03 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


I'm taking middle ground here. Most of his great numbers last year were first half. As the season progressed, his hitting tailed off significantly. At the time of his injury, he was scuffling. That has carried forward. So I think we need to wait and see what we've got offensively. And yes he seemed to be the picture of maturity last season...this year not so much.

I really don't care how old he is. He is a paid pro in the big leagues. Both a big privilege and a big responsibility. Look at the issues the Dodgers have trying to rein in the very immature Puig. Manny was out of line for sure. Might be his own personal frustration and it might be that the team is playing mostly crappy ball right now. In any event he needs to grow up fast. Yes some of us are a tough crowd.  The AL East is not a day care facility.frown

Last edited 6/8/2014 11:05 PM by insagt1

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Posted: 6/9/2014 7:20 AM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


Like they have with Chris Davis, pitchers have adjusted to Manny Machado. The sophomore "jinx" or "slump" is made up of things like that. Eventually, the hitters will make their own adjustments and start to hit again, or be one season wonders.

(for the record, I think Manny will make the adjustments he needs to be successful and a possible MVP candidate by the time he's 30, especially if he's playing in a good ballpark for him like OPACY).

Of more concern to me is the Orioles continual inability to draw walks. In Machado, Jones and Hardy, you've got three every day hitters who would rather have gall stones than take a walk. When they are hot, they will hit anything anywhere, but when they are cold, they swing at anything, getting themselves out. Plate discipline and lack of maturity bother me in Manny ("the bat slipped out of his hand? Really?" Joe Angel on the radio broadcast yesterday had it like it was - he was aiming for the pitcher with his bat and it went to third base instead).

Man up, Manny, work at your craft, and be the player we all think you can be.

Last edited 6/9/2014 7:22 AM by oltrex

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Posted: 6/9/2014 7:23 AM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


Manny Machado is batting .263 over his last 10 games including going 0 for 6 the last 2 games after hitting .277. He is slowly getting his swing back. We can look at all the players with thwe 2013 lineup  from mid August and beyond and see a huge downfall. McLouth batting under .200 since August 2013. Davis we see first hand is not the same hitter. Hardy while hitting near .300 has 0 home runs. Jones is about the only hitter you can say is consistent while Markakis has improved. 

 A little one on one with Delmon Young the next few days ought to do Manny well. Remember it was young who threw the bat hitting the umpire a few years back. Young has matured in recent years and admitted to being over jacked up as a youngster. Im sure Buck will give a good talking to Manny before todays practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=kp
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Posted: 6/9/2014 9:18 AM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


Just because a young person is paid lots of money doesn't mean they're going to magically become mature well beyond their years. I get your point but the fact remains - regardless of the money - that he's a young guy and just made a mistake. He had an emotional outburst, one that, frankly, could have been way worse. It's not like he got in a brawl, he just got in a dude's face. Whatever. I play men's league softball 3 days a week and over the past 10 years, I've gotten in many a dude's face in the heat of the moment. It's embarassing and regrettable after the fact. We're firey men with testosterone and emotions flowing in competition. We're not robots. Stuff happens sometimes. As long as it's not a reoccuring thing, I'm fine with a little fire from time to time.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 10:00 AM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


Last sentence is the key. This can't become a pattern. I'll stand by my statements though. There are only so many big league ballplayers. When you make the show, much is expected. thats just the way it is. If you expect to play everyday and perform for people who pay a ton more for tickets than they can reasonably afford (in proportion to income) then you owe them your very best. If you can't hack it at 20 or 21, you don't belong. With the money these guys are making, yes, I expect a TON more from them than I expect for the guy toiling here in Rochester. MOney doesn't equal maturity...but with it comes more responsibility and these kids have to 'grow up' a lot quicker IMO.

Hopefully this will be handled internally and it does not become a pattern. If that is the case, we can all put up with the occasional outburst in the heat of the moment. I get that fine. But there is no excuse for continued bad behavior. At least not in my world.

I also will stand by my observation that this is becoming a team thing. Its not just Manny. That horrible game Friday, the shellacking yesterday...and several other things that have really brought this team collectively down so far ...very disturbing to me. If all we care about is mediocrity and .500, then none of what I am saying carries any meaning. But if we care about pennants and world series...we have a right to expect a lot more.

The Orioles right now are not a fun team to watch. Because they should be so much better. Don't know where Buck fits into this but I hope they don't plan on waiting till September to get their act together.

Last edited 6/9/2014 10:02 AM by insagt1

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Posted: 6/9/2014 10:33 AM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


somebody needs to step up as a leader and straighten the kid out. - somebody like AJ or Cruz need to pull him aside 

You dont' throw bats in the majors kid
...and don't call me Shirley
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Posted: 6/9/2014 10:43 AM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 



DiscoJamal wrote: somebody needs to step up as a leader and straighten the kid out. - somebody like AJ or Cruz need to pull him aside 

You dont' throw bats in the majors kid

You don't throw bats in little league.....
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Posted: 6/9/2014 10:45 AM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


There are a couple of ways to handle this. One the manager will and likely has already spoke with him last night and im betting as soon as he gets to the ballparl today. Second his agent if he is true to heart and not in it for fame will fly to Baltimore to see whats going on with Manny. Third teammates will be borther like and sit down and have a pow wow. Not to say dont do this again he knows that already. They will talk about their frustrations every now and again and wanting to go Tony Soprano on someone and at times they do let it out. This icident is where the team can become a band brothers and show the world they are sticking to each other like glue. They are there to help one another along on and off the field.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 11:44 AM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 



sczepp wrote: There are a couple of ways to handle this. One the manager will and likely has already spoke with him last night and im betting as soon as he gets to the ballparl today. Second his agent if he is true to heart and not in it for fame will fly to Baltimore to see whats going on with Manny. Third teammates will be borther like and sit down and have a pow wow. Not to say dont do this again he knows that already. They will talk about their frustrations every now and again and wanting to go Tony Soprano on someone and at times they do let it out. This icident is where the team can become a band brothers and show the world they are sticking to each other like glue. They are there to help one another along on and off the field.

That's just what should happen. Who knows maybe this will be the bottom of the barrel and the team will pull together and say collectively that we are playing like crap top to bottom. We are better than this so lets go show the AL what we are made of.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 12:44 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


I didn't get to watch the last half of the game yesterday and all the videos of Manny swinging and letting go of the bat were not working. I just found the clip of the at bat and all I got to say is Manny is going to be very lucky if he doesn't get suspended at least five games.

Maybe he got thrown at but he started the whole thing with his BS at third base in the Friday night game and then hitting the catcher with his backswing twice. Accident, maybe but he sure as hell shouldn't be snickering about it. So he probably had it coming. Doesn't make it right just that's how baseball works.

But there is no doubt that he intentionally swung late and let the bat fly. I wouldn't even swing that late. The ball was already by him when he took the delayed swing and let it fly.  I don't give a damn if he is an Oriole. That isn't the Oriole way and should not be tolerated by us fans. 21 years old has not a damn thing to do with it. That was bush league period and I am pretty pissed about it having seen that unfold. Now hopefully the league and team will deal with it and its put behind us but I can't wait to see what happens July 18-20 when we visit Oakland. Baseball players tend to have long memories.

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Posted: 6/9/2014 2:07 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 



ifsteve wrote:
DiscoJamal wrote: somebody needs to step up as a leader and straighten the kid out. - somebody like AJ or Cruz need to pull him aside 

You dont' throw bats in the majors kid

You don't throw bats in little league.....
He really did make an @ss out of himself.  You don't throw bat - yell back at pitcher / charge the mound at worst.

You can't act that way.
...and don't call me Shirley
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Posted: 6/9/2014 2:12 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 



sczepp wrote: There are a couple of ways to handle this. One the manager will and likely has already spoke with him last night and im betting as soon as he gets to the ballparl today. Second his agent if he is true to heart and not in it for fame will fly to Baltimore to see whats going on with Manny. Third teammates will be borther like and sit down and have a pow wow. Not to say dont do this again he knows that already. They will talk about their frustrations every now and again and wanting to go Tony Soprano on someone and at times they do let it out. This icident is where the team can become a band brothers and show the world they are sticking to each other like glue. They are there to help one another along on and off the field.
The points you make are exactly why I think something's not right in that clubhouse right now. They SHOULD be sticking like bands of brothers...but they seem so disconnected this season. Manny may be young, but this sort of thing has to be rooted out ASAP. If he were wearing another uni, I guarantee you we wouldn't be making excuses because he is young. We would be calling him out bigtime...and he deserves it.

The fact that he did it, is over. But now it can't be sloughed over and rationalized. As it has been said, that isn't the Oriole Way as I remember it.

Just guessing again, but I think there is underlying turmoil in the clubhouse. Why else, for example, would you risk the winning run at the plate with one out...and two of your good (allegedly) hitters coming up? Why then would you take the bat out of said alleged good hitter by having a slow runner try to steal home? Why suddenly is a gold glove shortstop making errors every game? What has happened to Tillman? To Jiminez? To the bullpen?
Lough comes here and forgets his bat. Whats the story now with Wieters? (did I miss something recent?) Why does management still love Flaherty so much at the expense of Lombardozzi, who IMO is more valuable to the team?

Just a few questions that have me wondering if there isn't something going on behind the scenes this season.

No, I don't think things are OK. And yes, I believe things should be a lot better. There is plenty of time to right the ship...but the ship needs to be righted before progress can be made.

Do we want to have a rep like the Red Sox? No. do we want people to look at the O's brand and say...no respect? No.

(do we really want the Hansen Brothers?????)wink

Last edited 6/9/2014 2:15 PM by insagt1

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Posted: 6/9/2014 3:33 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


I didn't even know about Manny hitting Norris with the backswing.

Now that I think about it, it seems he really screwed up bigtime. I don't know....I am a forgiving person and don't like to hold grudges. Hopefully he's benched at least tonight and publicly apologizes....probably won't happen though since Buck blindly supports his players to a fault.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 3:55 PM

Re: Perhaps the Manny We are Seeing Now 


He kind of has to

But if the shoe were on the other foot and one of their players had thrown the bat we'd all be livid
...and don't call me Shirley
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