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MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013

Posted: 1/8/2013 11:34 AM

MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


Tomorrow we learn just how much the baseball writers don't like Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa...for starters. does anyone think those 3 will get voted in? I would say, someday they will all make it because its impossible to know how many players cheated during that time period. Worse, you have to wonder if anyone is already in the HOF that used the roids.
But I'm sure the above 3 will be 'punished' by having to wait a few years before making it.

Think any of them will get 50% of the vote? Which one will get the most? The fewest?

Who WILL get voted in? I would say Biggio and Piazza will make it.

Any thoughts?
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Posted: 1/8/2013 12:48 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


Will lucky to get 1 guy in the way the HOF votes. No, dont think those 3 listed get in. Watched a story about Bonds pre 1998 he was an all around 5 tool baseball player and had the eye ball. After 1999 he juiced up to keep up with Sosa and McGuire's spotlight as he felt he was the better player but got no coverage. I think he still would of hit 600 HR's without roiding, he was that good but he ruined it for himself but some of the blame has to go to the media and MLB for overlooking the issue for so long.
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Posted: 1/8/2013 1:36 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


I think that pitcher Morris may have a shot at getting in.
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Posted: 1/9/2013 9:45 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


Wow.

No one got in!


For POPPA! We won't stop!
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Posted: 1/10/2013 12:20 AM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


I'm really shocked. I would have thought that Piazza at least had a shot. No reason why they couldn't have had at least one.
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Posted: 1/10/2013 8:44 AM

RE: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


Clearly the writers were angry. They took it out on everyone this year. Not saying I agree though...I thought Biggio deserved to get in...particularly since Barry Larkin got in last year. Was Larkin THAT much better than Biggio--over their long careers?? And Piazza too...guess the 'whispers' of him being tainted cost him as well.

I know there is hypocricy all around in this mess. At the end of the day, MLB is going to have to come to grips with the 'Steroid Era' and decide what to do about it. If it were clearly definable, who used and who didn't, it would be easier...but it isn't so nothing anyone does will be the perfect or acceptable solution.
Some will say, because of the cheaters, will breaking the existing records now be too difficult for current players who are not cheating? Interesting to note that once again, a 40 HR season is pretty exceptional. Would any player in today's game be able to have 60 HR seasons again...let alone 2 or 3 of them in a row? Could anyone really hit over 70 anymore? Whose standards are legitimate...Ruth, Mantle, Maris, and Aaron or Sosa, Big Mac and Bonds?

Oh well, I;m sure the controversy will rage on.
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Posted: 1/10/2013 10:52 AM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


If we believe what has been written Ruth was exceptional. Instead of using a substance to help his body perform, he did the reverse. Staying up all night drinking, reporting to the ballpark late with a hangover and still hitting HR's with a dead ball compared to current baseballs in use the last 50 years.

Can you imagine Ruth working out in a weight room or having a strength coach?

 

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Posted: 1/10/2013 12:18 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


If he did, he would be offering everyone there a beer and a smoke before working outbiggrin
Many argue that steroids can't make someone hit a baseball or throw a better fastball. but certainly we now have enough evidence that since their use was 'banned' officially, the stats, which have remained relatively standardized over decades have returned to 'normal'. that can't be any coincidence.

In fact, maybe one outlier stat---with all the no-hitters and perfect games appearing on the landscape recently, one has to wonder just how many hitters were juicing. Which is why this 'problem' is unsolvable. Is it true that the hitters now have to work a lot harder, with only their natural talent, to hit major league pitching? noidea

I'm sure that the likes of Bonds, Clemens and a few others will end up in the HOF. I'm not convinced the writers of this generation will ever forgive Sosa and McGwire for their charade HR duel. And despite clear HOF numbers, Palmiero so enraged everyone with his finger wagging and out and out lying....he will probably fall off the ballot altogether.

Last edited 1/10/2013 12:20 PM by insagt1

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Posted: 1/10/2013 12:29 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 



insagt1 wrote: If he did, he would be offering everyone there a beer and a smoke before working outbiggrin
Many argue that steroids can't make someone hit a baseball or throw a better fastball. but certainly we now have enough evidence that since their use was 'banned' officially, the stats, which have remained relatively standardized over decades have returned to 'normal'. that can't be any coincidence.

In fact, maybe one outlier stat---with all the no-hitters and perfect games appearing on the landscape recently, one has to wonder just how many hitters were juicing. Which is why this 'problem' is unsolvable. Is it true that the hitters now have to work a lot harder, with only their natural talent, to hit major league pitching? noidea

I'm sure that the likes of Bonds, Clemens and a few others will end up in the HOF. I'm not convinced the writers of this generation will ever forgive Sosa and McGwire for their charade HR duel. And despite clear HOF numbers, Palmiero so enraged everyone with his finger wagging and out and out lying....he will probably fall off the ballot altogether.
I actually believe a decrease in home run totals is purely "coincidental." Pitching has gotten better, and hitters just aren't as good. Frankly, these hitters suck, with the exception of the truly greats. Strikeouts are at all-time highs, and we're used to it by now.

The number of high contact hitters has decreased. We're also seeing the "re-introduction" of bigger ballparks (PetCo, AT&T, SafeCo, Target, Comerica, PNC, Citi compared to fewer smaller parks like Great American).

We have to keep in mind that pitchers used too.... so why are we seeing more strikeouts now? Maybe pitchers are juicing?

Throw the 2 seamer for strikes dammit.
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Posted: 1/10/2013 12:46 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


Would of thought Biggio, he came close at 68%. 3000 hits used to be a lock unless your Pete Rose.Was he caught in the wrong era?

http://www.baseball-reference....biggicr01.shtml
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Posted: 1/10/2013 1:32 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


Most definitely. Biggio should have been a first ballot based on who else was a possible Hall of Famer.
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Posted: 1/10/2013 2:46 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 



OsMagik wrote:
insagt1 wrote: If he did, he would be offering everyone there a beer and a smoke before working outbiggrin
Many argue that steroids can't make someone hit a baseball or throw a better fastball. but certainly we now have enough evidence that since their use was 'banned' officially, the stats, which have remained relatively standardized over decades have returned to 'normal'. that can't be any coincidence.

In fact, maybe one outlier stat---with all the no-hitters and perfect games appearing on the landscape recently, one has to wonder just how many hitters were juicing. Which is why this 'problem' is unsolvable. Is it true that the hitters now have to work a lot harder, with only their natural talent, to hit major league pitching? noidea

I'm sure that the likes of Bonds, Clemens and a few others will end up in the HOF. I'm not convinced the writers of this generation will ever forgive Sosa and McGwire for their charade HR duel. And despite clear HOF numbers, Palmiero so enraged everyone with his finger wagging and out and out lying....he will probably fall off the ballot altogether.
I actually believe a decrease in home run totals is purely "coincidental." Pitching has gotten better, and hitters just aren't as good. Frankly, these hitters suck, with the exception of the truly greats. Strikeouts are at all-time highs, and we're used to it by now.

The number of high contact hitters has decreased. We're also seeing the "re-introduction" of bigger ballparks (PetCo, AT&T, SafeCo, Target, Comerica, PNC, Citi compared to fewer smaller parks like Great American).

We have to keep in mind that pitchers used too.... so why are we seeing more strikeouts now? Maybe pitchers are juicing?
Pitchers juicing? Hey who knows!
but no, its just way too 'coincidental' that the HR totals fell so precipitously the very next year that the game began to get cleaned up. there were several players who were hitting over 40 HR's that had no business being power hitters...and suddenly they stopped being power hitters. I believe it has been a factor...maybe not THE factor, but certainly a contributor.

On the subject of high contact hitters: the Twins had the best one of those in Ben Revere and they basically gave him away to the Phillies...which has angered many Twins fans. Yes, they need pitching, but they already gave Span away...now they have discarded one of the few legitimate prospects that has been developed and was producing. I don't remember the exact stat (I'm sure someone will come up with it) but his percentage of making contact per swing taken last year was sick incredible. The guy rarely ever swung and missed. having watched him play in rochester, I was excited to see him become a star in Minnesota. I don't understand the Twins thinking at all.
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Posted: 1/10/2013 2:59 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


Let them all in at once

McGuire, Sosa, Palmerio, Bonds Clemens etc.

Rob them of their individual days in the sun and speeches.

It would be interesting to see if the fans showed up for them.

...stay classy 'skins fans
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Posted: 1/10/2013 6:48 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


Another fan who I respect but often disagree with summed it up by saying the best home run hitter of all-time, the guy who won more Cy Youngs than anybody, a 3000 hit club member who was an All-Star at three positions, and the greatest power hitting catcher of all time couldn't make it in. What were the voters thinking?

I'm not sure I would have voted for Bonds or Clemens, but you're telling me that guys like Jack Morris, Allen Trammel, Dale Murphy, Fred McGriff  or Tim Raines didn't deserve a little more consideration?

The guy I feel sorriest for is a guy I personally wouldn't have voted for, but to think Kenny Lofton didn't deserve more than 4 % of the vote? The man was a pest, getting on base, stealing bases, playing a great center field and hitting with occassional pop. But he didn't even get enough votes to stay on the ballot another year!

The easiest thing to do in a situation like this is to start comparing stats between those you want in and others who are already in (compare Rice to Murphy or Dwight Evans, eg), but I agree with the comments I've seen, those saying this year was the year the writers / voters got very small minded and on their moral high horse. I hope that attitude is tempered in the 2014 balloting...
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Posted: 1/10/2013 9:19 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 



oltrex wrote: Another fan who I respect but often disagree with summed it up by saying the best home run hitter of all-time, the guy who won more Cy Youngs than anybody, a 3000 hit club member who was an All-Star at three positions, and the greatest power hitting catcher of all time couldn't make it in. What were the voters thinking?

I'm not sure I would have voted for Bonds or Clemens, but you're telling me that guys like Jack Morris, Allen Trammel, Dale Murphy, Fred McGriff  or Tim Raines didn't deserve a little more consideration?

The guy I feel sorriest for is a guy I personally wouldn't have voted for, but to think Kenny Lofton didn't deserve more than 4 % of the vote? The man was a pest, getting on base, stealing bases, playing a great center field and hitting with occassional pop. But he didn't even get enough votes to stay on the ballot another year!

The easiest thing to do in a situation like this is to start comparing stats between those you want in and others who are already in (compare Rice to Murphy or Dwight Evans, eg), but I agree with the comments I've seen, those saying this year was the year the writers / voters got very small minded and on their moral high horse. I hope that attitude is tempered in the 2014 balloting...
I disagree with your assessment on Kenny Lofton.  He was a pest and did many things but I don't believe he was a great ballplayer.  I don't believe he was a dominant player either...just my 2 cents.

As for Biggio, I think it's BS he didn't get in.  I think baseball writers and voters are ridiculous when they try to pull that crap about "this guy's a first ballot HOF".  Or the best, "he's a 2nd or 3rd ballot HOFer, not a 1st".  Really?  if he's a HOFer then he's a HOFer.  This first ballot, second ballot crap is ridiculous...what, did the guy get better all of a sudden after the first ballot??  c'mon!
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Posted: 1/11/2013 3:27 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


The whole Writers voting system is antiquated. 

Personally I think it's weird that Peter Schmuck a long time columnist isn't allowed to vote (by his employer) yet Roch K a pun making blogger employed by a MLB team is allowed to vote.

They should let the fans and players decide. 

and not in the BS way they let fans vote for  the all-star game either (20 votes per email!)

Ultimately isn't the HOF for the fans enjoyment?   

...stay classy 'skins fans
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Posted: 1/11/2013 4:16 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 



DiscoJamal wrote:

The whole Writers voting system is antiquated. 

Personally I think it's weird that Peter Schmuck a long time columnist isn't allowed to vote (by his employer) yet Roch K a pun making blogger employed by a MLB team is allowed to vote.

They should let the fans and players decide. 

and not in the BS way they let fans vote for  the all-star game either (20 votes per email!)

Ultimately isn't the HOF for the fans enjoyment?   

I think letting the players, coaches, living HOF members, scouts (maybe) and FO (maybe) should be the ones voting. 

The players know who's dominant and who isn't...the coaches have been around long enough to see many of those players compete (whether against or with).  Both have the most knowledge about the game.  I threw in scouts and FO because they study the game and stats.

I also believe the players and the living HOF members take pride in their craft and are the ones essentially who are sharing company with these people.  It should be them (imo) that makes those decisions.  I think fans really can't be relied upon because of the many opportunities to skew voting (as you mentioned) but also I think they can make it a popularity contest (like the AS Games).

I'm not sure what you mean by the HOF is for the fans' enjoyment.  based on my limited understanding of that statement, I really believe the HOF is independent of the fans.  By that, I mean induction should be based on performance and not too much more.  I don't think just because a fan found Rick Dempsey to be one of the most entertaining and funny players in the history of the game that he should be in the HOF.
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Posted: 1/11/2013 9:11 PM

Re: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 



daoriginalmookie wrote:
I think letting the players, coaches, living HOF members, scouts (maybe) and FO (maybe) should be the ones voting. 

The players know who's dominant and who isn't...the coaches have been around long enough to see many of those players compete (whether against or with).  Both have the most knowledge about the game.  I threw in scouts and FO because they study the game and stats.

Sounds good to me!
I've known too many reporters that have used illegal drugs to ask them to be judge and jury on ballplayers for the HOF.  MLB didn't really care as long as fans paid to see the guys hit homers or strike out batter until it became public.




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Posted: 1/11/2013 9:21 PM

RE: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


I like the idea too!
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Posted: 1/13/2013 9:40 PM

RE: MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013 


Having the writer pass judgement on a whole era of players just seems dumb to me.

You should be judged by your peers

Same goes for the NFL and Art Modell - Let him be judged by his peers, the owners should decide his worthiness the HOF, not some angry spiteful writer in Ohio.


...stay classy 'skins fans
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