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Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects?

Posted: 12/25/2012 5:46 AM

Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


Now, I know you're thinking, it's a crazy question to ask.

But, if the current model is to lay in the middle-bottom of the pack for team payroll, or to model an organization after the Rays, this is something they would do.

Hammel is going to be 30, he's in his final year of arbitration and will be due a hefty pay raise. The Rays have never been shy about using young pitchers, the O's have a plethora. The A's and Rays have proven you most definitely do not need a veteran in the rotation.

There really is no right or wrong answer to this, but I think there's gotta be some discussion in the warehouse about this as spring training approaches, he could be one of the more "expendable" arms considering he's got the least amount of guaranteed time here.

Throw the 2 seamer for strikes dammit.
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Posted: 12/25/2012 9:47 AM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


Impossible to answer as a generic question. In general I would say no. Prospects are simply that, prospects.  But it ultimately depends on the specifics and how the prospects look to fit the O' needs.

To me a big consideration is how far a prospect is from being an everyday MLB player.  If you are a rebuilding team then trading for prospects is one thing. If you are, how I currently see the O's, a team right on the brink of making playoff runs then its a different dynamic.  I don't trade a key piece of the current team unless you feel you have a replacement already on hand and the return fixes other holes in the near future.

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Posted: 12/25/2012 12:03 PM

RE: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


The Orioles are considering trading pitching for a bat as it is, why shouldn't Hammel be at the top of the list of moveable pitchers?

Throw the 2 seamer for strikes dammit.
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Posted: 12/25/2012 1:03 PM

RE: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


Your point is well made, Magik, I think it's well worth consideration by the O's front office unless they are considering a longer term contract to avoid some FA years. Even then I tend to agree now might be when he has the highest value depending on what '13 turns out like.




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Posted: 12/25/2012 1:24 PM

RE: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 



OsMagik wrote: The Orioles are considering trading pitching for a bat as it is, why shouldn't Hammel be at the top of the list of moveable pitchers?
This I would have no problem with but this isn't how I took your original question. Trading for prospects vs a bat seem like different things. At least when I hear trading for a bat I take that to mean somebody who is penciled in the opening day lineup.
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Posted: 12/25/2012 1:47 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


We know we are looking for a middle of the order bat right now. My question to you is there a blocked prospect out there that everyone sees as a middle of the order bat that we can trade him for?
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Posted: 12/25/2012 5:33 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


When you consider that Hammel didn't win a game after June, I can see why the thought came up. But I think the O's are a year away from that - a year with more development for Gausman and Dylan Bundy, specifically - but I wouldn't mind if they sent away some of the excess starting pitching they do have for prospects, especially offensive ones. I'm talking Jake Arrietta, Tommy Hunter, Brian Matusz. Each of them give up home runs at an alarming rate and are getting short on options, and with guys like Wada, Steve Johnson, Zack Britton looking to make an impact, I would consider moving the three I mentioned.

I suspect with  5 teams supposedly chasing Joe Saunders, the Orioles probably want to have that settled before they consider moving any pitching, but I've mainly given up on Jake, Matusz and Hunter.
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Posted: 12/25/2012 10:54 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


I think if we were to consider Hammel a potential trade option, now's probably not the time to do it. Although he had a solid season when he could play, I think his injuries from last season might hurt whatever value we get in return.

I smell tacos...

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Posted: 12/26/2012 12:52 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 



stephenjames1979 wrote: I think if we were to consider Hammel a potential trade option, now's probably not the time to do it. Although he had a solid season when he could play, I think his injuries from last season might hurt whatever value we get in return.
This is where I tend to disagree. I think seeing him go pitch for pitch with CC twice in the playoffs is the lasting impression on him.

I think his value is at his highest right now. I think the time is now to trade him or extend him.

Just remember... Guthrie was moved in February for Hammel under very similar circumstances.

Throw the 2 seamer for strikes dammit.
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Posted: 12/26/2012 1:43 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 



OsMagik wrote:
stephenjames1979 wrote: I think if we were to consider Hammel a potential trade option, now's probably not the time to do it. Although he had a solid season when he could play, I think his injuries from last season might hurt whatever value we get in return.
This is where I tend to disagree. I think seeing him go pitch for pitch with CC twice in the playoffs is the lasting impression on him.

I think his value is at his highest right now. I think the time is now to trade him or extend him.

Just remember... Guthrie was moved in February for Hammel under very similar circumstances.
Guthrie for Hammel was basically a swap of players who neither team wanted anymore...different situation. 

Your original post indicates that you believe Hammel is highly sought after.  I don't believe that's the case at all.  He's what, 30 and has had one good year that came out of nowhere and in that good year, he was hurt for a good portion of it.  If he never got hurt and maintained his high level of performance, I think there would be a greater demand...but as of right now, I just don't think so. 

However, if the team could move him for some high level prospects and/or a power bat then do it.  I honestly don't believe he'll replicate that kind of success again.
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Posted: 12/26/2012 5:59 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


Fair comments, but I'd add that Guthrie asking for 10.25 million in arbitration was also a reason for the trade. The Orioles didn't want to pay him that, but they were afraid to go to arbitration with him.

Worked out well for the O's. I remember Buck saying they'd had some good reports out of Colorado after Hammel went to the bullpen in August 2011, but I've often wondered from who?

Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than good...
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Posted: 12/26/2012 7:22 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 



oltrex wrote:

Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than good...
amen to that
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Posted: 12/26/2012 10:16 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 



daoriginalmookie wrote:
OsMagik wrote:
stephenjames1979 wrote: I think if we were to consider Hammel a potential trade option, now's probably not the time to do it. Although he had a solid season when he could play, I think his injuries from last season might hurt whatever value we get in return.
This is where I tend to disagree. I think seeing him go pitch for pitch with CC twice in the playoffs is the lasting impression on him.

I think his value is at his highest right now. I think the time is now to trade him or extend him.

Just remember... Guthrie was moved in February for Hammel under very similar circumstances.
Guthrie for Hammel was basically a swap of players who neither team wanted anymore...different situation. 

Your original post indicates that you believe Hammel is highly sought after.  I don't believe that's the case at all.  He's what, 30 and has had one good year that came out of nowhere and in that good year, he was hurt for a good portion of it.  If he never got hurt and maintained his high level of performance, I think there would be a greater demand...but as of right now, I just don't think so. 

However, if the team could move him for some high level prospects and/or a power bat then do it.  I honestly don't believe he'll replicate that kind of success again.
Where did I say he's sought after?

Only given his contract situation, age and likely arbitration results, he's got to be considered as a top candidate to move. This is the kind of roster management teams that don't have unlimited funds make. Be it prospects or a bat, players that aren't guaranteed to stick around and will command several years and several million a year have got to be flipped for player(s) that will be here... or extended at/below potential market value.

Edit: now that you bring up "sought after" if the O's can get a Hammel for the mediocrity (at best) that Guthrie was, do it again.

Throw the 2 seamer for strikes dammit.

Last edited 12/26/2012 10:20 PM by OsMagik

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Posted: 12/27/2012 7:18 AM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


This is a good idea even if it may not happen. Hammel stock went up even with the injury due to it being a knee and not his arm or shoulder that put him on the DL.
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Posted: 12/27/2012 8:52 AM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 



OsMagik wrote:
daoriginalmookie wrote:
OsMagik wrote:
stephenjames1979 wrote: I think if we were to consider Hammel a potential trade option, now's probably not the time to do it. Although he had a solid season when he could play, I think his injuries from last season might hurt whatever value we get in return.
This is where I tend to disagree. I think seeing him go pitch for pitch with CC twice in the playoffs is the lasting impression on him.

I think his value is at his highest right now. I think the time is now to trade him or extend him.

Just remember... Guthrie was moved in February for Hammel under very similar circumstances.
Guthrie for Hammel was basically a swap of players who neither team wanted anymore...different situation. 

Your original post indicates that you believe Hammel is highly sought after.  I don't believe that's the case at all.  He's what, 30 and has had one good year that came out of nowhere and in that good year, he was hurt for a good portion of it.  If he never got hurt and maintained his high level of performance, I think there would be a greater demand...but as of right now, I just don't think so. 

However, if the team could move him for some high level prospects and/or a power bat then do it.  I honestly don't believe he'll replicate that kind of success again.
Where did I say he's sought after?

Only given his contract situation, age and likely arbitration results, he's got to be considered as a top candidate to move. This is the kind of roster management teams that don't have unlimited funds make. Be it prospects or a bat, players that aren't guaranteed to stick around and will command several years and several million a year have got to be flipped for player(s) that will be here... or extended at/below potential market value.

Edit: now that you bring up "sought after" if the O's can get a Hammel for the mediocrity (at best) that Guthrie was, do it again.
I'm drawing conclusions from your original post...I apologize if I misunderstood it. 

The O's have the funds to re-sign him regardless of the amount.  It's really a matter of is he worth it.  If the O's are worried about going to arbitration (indicating a higher salary than they want) then his value wouldn't be that great because then another team would have to take on that "risk" as well as trade players to acquire him.  But I think I see your point...
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Posted: 12/27/2012 8:57 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


Ping - Hammel was a candidate that fans could vote onto the All Star team. That's how good he was in the first half of 2012.

Pong - I think he had all of one start in August, and a few in September, then the playoffs. That's how injuries derailed a pretty good season for him.

I understand that teams with an open mind would want him, but I think they would point to his knee troubles and overall lack of durability (200 inning seasons, eg) to offer less than fair value to the Orioles. If the O's were making room for Bundy or Gausman or Jake comes to camp in monster shape, than I can see accepting prospects for him. But I also say that IMHO you see how well he comes back and make your plans around that. And say he has another great half season, or maybe even a break out full season and becomes too rich for the Orioles taste? If he is a free agent, let him go and collect a high draft choice for him.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 1:06 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 



OsMagik wrote: Now, I know you're thinking, it's a crazy question to ask.

But, if the current model is to lay in the middle-bottom of the pack for team payroll, or to model an organization after the Rays, this is something they would do.

Hammel is going to be 30, he's in his final year of arbitration and will be due a hefty pay raise. The Rays have never been shy about using young pitchers, the O's have a plethora. The A's and Rays have proven you most definitely do not need a veteran in the rotation.

There really is no right or wrong answer to this, but I think there's gotta be some discussion in the warehouse about this as spring training approaches, he could be one of the more "expendable" arms considering he's got the least amount of guaranteed time here.
If he could help deliver us a decent bat for the middle of the lineup, I'd do it. I don't know if they would unload him for prospects only but given the above scenario, I don't think he is untouchable if the right deal showed up.
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Posted: 12/29/2012 9:26 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 



insagt1 wrote:
OsMagik wrote: Now, I know you're thinking, it's a crazy question to ask.

But, if the current model is to lay in the middle-bottom of the pack for team payroll, or to model an organization after the Rays, this is something they would do.

Hammel is going to be 30, he's in his final year of arbitration and will be due a hefty pay raise. The Rays have never been shy about using young pitchers, the O's have a plethora. The A's and Rays have proven you most definitely do not need a veteran in the rotation.

There really is no right or wrong answer to this, but I think there's gotta be some discussion in the warehouse about this as spring training approaches, he could be one of the more "expendable" arms considering he's got the least amount of guaranteed time here.
If he could help deliver us a decent bat for the middle of the lineup, I'd do it. I don't know if they would unload him for prospects only but given the above scenario, I don't think he is untouchable if the right deal showed up.
Definitely shouldn't be a guy who's "untouchable"...not even close.  I just don't believe he would net a good package at the moment.
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Posted: 12/30/2012 9:55 AM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 


Seems like we'd be selling low as he's coming off an injury - possible July trade bait if he's having a good year though
...and don't call me Shirley
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Posted: 12/30/2012 4:22 PM

Re: Should the O's trade Hammel for prospects? 



DiscoJamal wrote: Seems like we'd be selling low as he's coming off an injury - possible July trade bait if he's having a good year though
If he's having a good year and the O's are contenders, I doubt he'll be traded unless it's for something that significantly improves the O's.  I just don't see that happening...
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