Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
InboxChat RoomChat Room (0 fans in chatroom)
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 4  Next >

Jimmy Graham just got ripped...

Posted: 7/2/2014 3:19 PM - Expires: 07/28/2014

Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_...aints-tight-end

Well, he has to live off TE money now but he was screwed, 67% of the time lining up at wide out or in the slot should have gotten him paid like a WR.

Last edited 7/2/2014 3:20 PM by marlon48

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/3/2014 11:20 AM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


I disagree. I don't feel that Pandora's box should be opened by setting that precedent.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 11:42 AM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


I haven't followed it that closely but I'm a little torn on it.  Obviously a 5 million difference for 1 year  a lot for a guy who is in all actuality a WR.  I don't know his previous contracts but I wonder how much he's gotten in bonus money for going to the pro bowl or being all-pro.  Lot easier to do at TE, where his numbers aren't quite as impressive compared to WR's and he might not have made a few that he has.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 1:42 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


On Twitter, Graham listed himself as a "tight end". Sorry Jimmy you screwed yourself.
"Illusions Micheal, illusions. Tricks are something that a whore does for money.....or cocaine". - Gob Bluth
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/3/2014 1:43 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


The entire franchise tag structure needs to be re evaluated. The players had their chance a few years ago when they were negotiating the new CBA and they didn't address it. The game has changed since the franchise tag came into use. There are more hybrid type positions. TE's aren't traditional TEs anymore that only line up on the line of scrimmage. Centers, guards, and tackles should have a separate tag number. Pass rushing LBs be considered DEs instead of being lumped in with all other LBs. There's just too much gray area here.

Franchise tags

Quarterback: $16.192 million
Running back: $9.54 million
Wide receiver: $12.312 million
Tight end: $7.035 million
Offensive lineman: $11.654 million  
Defensive end: $13.116 million
Defensive tackle: $9.654 million 
Linebacker: $11.455 million 
Cornerback: $11.834 million
Safety: $8.433 million
Kicker/punter: $3.556 million

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/...ion-tag-numbers



 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/3/2014 1:44 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 



Cubfan41 wrote: On Twitter, Graham listed himself as a "tight end". Sorry Jimmy you screwed yourself.

Jordan Cameron changed his to "pass catcher" after the ruling.



 

Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 1:46 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 



jimmyray78 wrote:
Cubfan41 wrote: On Twitter, Graham listed himself as a "tight end". Sorry Jimmy you screwed yourself.

Jordan Cameron changed his to "pass catcher" after the ruling.
Yeah I saw that. I think pretty much every TE will list themselves as something else now.
"Illusions Micheal, illusions. Tricks are something that a whore does for money.....or cocaine". - Gob Bluth
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/3/2014 2:03 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


I heard an interesting counter argument for why the league would oppose and aactually have a decent case if they were to take this battle into the next CBA. OverTheCap.com did a podcast on it, I believe. Worth looking up.
------

twitter: @idiosyncronaut
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/3/2014 2:08 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


Man, who cares? He's just gonna sue the NFL for millions in 30 years anyways.

"Steady progress in the goal of winning championships."- Phil Emery
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 2:36 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


What, that a guy actually gets paid based on the position he plays ''most'' of the time?  Darren Woodson talked about this earlier today and said he played CB a lot with the Cowboys, but of course was paid as a safety but guys then didn't think too much about it.  Now, with the disparity in salaries between positions, it's an issue and should be.  Graham has 10 days to appeal...
FloridaBearsFan wrote: I disagree. I don't feel that Pandora's box should be opened by setting that precedent.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/3/2014 4:11 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


I think his true value comes as a TE. 

If you were to say he was a WR and compare him to other  elite WRs then you'd say he's just a good WR and not really one of the elite. 

Most elite WRs play the vast majority of their snaps on the outside with occasionally sliding into the slot to look for a mismatch (and almost never just outside tackle).  At most I'd concede that Graham is a really big slot receiver (again, only if you'd call him a WR, I wouldn't).

It'll all even out in the end.  Elite TEs (basing off of Rob Gronkowski which is really the only modern day elite TE contract) make more than Elite Slot WRs (Victor Cruz, Eric Decker).


Member of the Brandon Marshall Fan Club!
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 4:18 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


Slot receivers are usually a WR playing there, which is what the fuss is about, the pay disparity between TE & WR, so it won't even out in the end. 
camoss wrote: I think his true value comes as a TE. 

If you were to say he was a WR and compare him to other  elite WRs then you'd say he's just a good WR and not really one of the elite. 

Most elite WRs play the vast majority of their snaps on the outside with occasionally sliding into the slot to look for a mismatch (and almost never just outside tackle).  At most I'd concede that Graham is a really big slot receiver (again, only if you'd call him a WR, I wouldn't).

It'll all even out in the end.  Elite TEs (basing off of Rob Gronkowski which is really the only modern day elite TE contract) make more than Elite Slot WRs (Victor Cruz, Eric Decker).
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 4:21 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 



Anytime23 wrote: Man, who cares? He's just gonna sue the NFL for millions in 30 years anyways.
Actually I don't.  I think within a few years every player in the league will need to sign a waiver saying the NFL has explained it to you that this sport is a high risk occupation and while we will take every step in keeping you safe, you been warned!
"Illusions Micheal, illusions. Tricks are something that a whore does for money.....or cocaine". - Gob Bluth
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/3/2014 4:37 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 




His position is TE. Period. If he doesn't like it, change positions. Disagree with the rules all you want, doesn't make a damn bit of difference when the fact remains those were the rules in place at the time, and he knew it. If you want to discuss the idea that the rules should be changed, I'd tell you I'm fine with it.

There was a time Matt Forte was 50% of our offense. Maybe we should increase his pay too. Maybe all the other players franchised since the beginning of time should receive a position review and receive back pay with interest for the money they were "screwed" out of.

Or maybe he could stop crying and figure out a way to barely survive on a multi million dollar salary.
---------------------------------------------
--- marlon48 wrote:

What, that a guy actually gets paid based on the position he plays ''most'' of the time?  Darren Woodson talked about this earlier today and said he played CB a lot with the Cowboys, but of course was paid as a safety but guys then didn't think too much about it.  Now, with the disparity in salaries between positions, it's an issue and should be.  Graham has 10 days to appeal...
FloridaBearsFan wrote: I disagree. I don't feel that Pandora's box should be opened by setting that precedent.


---------------------------------------------
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 4:49 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


You're conflating two arguments, the fact that Forte was 50% of the offense has zero to do with Graham.  Graham can't tell the team he doesn't want to be flanked out, he plays where he's told. So if he does that, he should also get compensated for playing there.
FloridaBearsFan wrote:

His position is TE. Period. If he doesn't like it, change positions. Disagree with the rules all you want, doesn't make a damn bit of difference when the fact remains those were the rules in place at the time, and he knew it. If you want to discuss the idea that the rules should be changed, I'd tell you I'm fine with it.

There was a time Matt Forte was 50% of our offense. Maybe we should increase his pay too. Maybe all the other players franchised since the beginning of time should receive a position review and receive back pay with interest for the money they were "screwed" out of.

Or maybe he could stop crying and figure out a way to barely survive on a multi million dollar salary.
---------------------------------------------
--- marlon48 wrote:

What, that a guy actually gets paid based on the position he plays ''most'' of the time?  Darren Woodson talked about this earlier today and said he played CB a lot with the Cowboys, but of course was paid as a safety but guys then didn't think too much about it.  Now, with the disparity in salaries between positions, it's an issue and should be.  Graham has 10 days to appeal...
FloridaBearsFan wrote: I disagree. I don't feel that Pandora's box should be opened by setting that precedent.


---------------------------------------------
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 4:56 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


http://www.sbnation.com/2014/7...uling-tight-end

Graham listed himself as a TE, sits in team meetings with the TE, runs drills with them, travels with them and for all I know, buys them Christmas gifts.

If it walks and talks like a duck, it's a duck.

"Illusions Micheal, illusions. Tricks are something that a whore does for money.....or cocaine". - Gob Bluth
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 5:08 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


Players only go to the meetings the coaches tell them to go to...if this is the Saints idea of how to save money, it'll bite  them in the butt in the end.  He lists himself as a TE because that's what he was drafted as, but being flanked out so much tells what he really plays, WR.
Cubfan41 wrote: http://www.sbnation.com/2014/7...uling-tight-end

Graham listed himself as a TE, sits in team meetings with the TE, runs drills with them, travels with them and for all I know, buys them Christmas gifts.

If it walks and talks like a duck, it's a duck.

Last edited 7/3/2014 5:10 PM by marlon48

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/3/2014 6:21 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 



marlon48 wrote: Slot receivers are usually a WR playing there, which is what the fuss is about, the pay disparity between TE & WR, so it won't even out in the end. 
camoss wrote: I think his true value comes as a TE. 

If you were to say he was a WR and compare him to other  elite WRs then you'd say he's just a good WR and not really one of the elite. 

Most elite WRs play the vast majority of their snaps on the outside with occasionally sliding into the slot to look for a mismatch (and almost never just outside tackle).  At most I'd concede that Graham is a really big slot receiver (again, only if you'd call him a WR, I wouldn't).

It'll all even out in the end.  Elite TEs (basing off of Rob Gronkowski which is really the only modern day elite TE contract) make more than Elite Slot WRs (Victor Cruz, Eric Decker).
But what I'm saying is that a top TE is seen as more valuable now a days than a top Slot WR.  I'm not talking about for franchise tag because obviously the system is flawed, but what I'm arguing is his long term contract will be worth more than any of the "Elite" Slot Receivers are being paid now.  So in the end it'll even itself out.

If Graham wants to define himself as a WR, he'd be considered a slot WR and make less money than the top TE in the league will.


Member of the Brandon Marshall Fan Club!
Reply | Quote

Posted: 7/3/2014 6:26 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


No, because there aren't salary ''slots'' for slot receivers, they are paid as WR's.  
camoss wrote:
marlon48 wrote: Slot receivers are usually a WR playing there, which is what the fuss is about, the pay disparity between TE & WR, so it won't even out in the end. 
camoss wrote: I think his true value comes as a TE. 

If you were to say he was a WR and compare him to other  elite WRs then you'd say he's just a good WR and not really one of the elite. 

Most elite WRs play the vast majority of their snaps on the outside with occasionally sliding into the slot to look for a mismatch (and almost never just outside tackle).  At most I'd concede that Graham is a really big slot receiver (again, only if you'd call him a WR, I wouldn't).

It'll all even out in the end.  Elite TEs (basing off of Rob Gronkowski which is really the only modern day elite TE contract) make more than Elite Slot WRs (Victor Cruz, Eric Decker).
But what I'm saying is that a top TE is seen as more valuable now a days than a top Slot WR.  I'm not talking about for franchise tag because obviously the system is flawed, but what I'm arguing is his long term contract will be worth more than any of the "Elite" Slot Receivers are being paid now.  So in the end it'll even itself out.

If Graham wants to define himself as a WR, he'd be considered a slot WR and make less money than the top TE in the league will.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 7/3/2014 6:52 PM

Re: Jimmy Graham just got ripped... 


Whether he thinks of himself as elite or we do, that doesn't matter.  His team chose to Franchise Tag him as one of their best free agents in the league.  If you think about it, the Saints tagging him as a TE might have been a m money saving technique for them, it could also turn around and bite them in the ass too.

Now he's worth approximately $5 million dollars less than a WR, right?  Another team could sign him to a multi-year contract with escalators on the back end which would be very tough for the Saints to match.  Whatever team would potentially do this would have to give up 2 1st round picks.  Who is to say that either or both of those pics will even pan out or be worth what Graham brings to a team?
Reply | Quote
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 4  Next >