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Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
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Posted: 1/31/2013 4:56 PM
Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Thought I should just make a thread on that, because I'm noticing people getting excited about the possibility of signing the guy. He's not terrible. Better than J'Marcus Webb. Not worth getting excited about, and probably not one of the 5 best tackles figuring to hit the open market. I wouldn't want to hand the guy a big contract.
I'll go ahead and let the PFF guys back up what I'm saying, because I can't imagine he carries a high rating.
I would also like someone to look at Will Beatty's PFF rating. He's been much better from what I've seen, and physically, he's a lot more intriguing.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 5:40 PM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
In before BF247 throws down the gauntlet.
Phil Emery is watching you FAP  "Steady progress in the goal of winning championships." |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 6:37 PM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
You are dead on. Bushrod ranks a whole 3 spots higher than Webb (44 to 47). He's a slightly better run blocker and a few less penalties than Webb but basically the same pass block rating. Now it is a big drop off from last year where he ranked 13th and had solid numbers across the board. That might have been the abberation though because he ranked 64th in 2010.
And you nailed it on Beatty (11th). Terrific run and pass block numbers but was actually worse than Webb in penalties. |
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:53 PM
Re: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
In the same offense, with a high percentage of shotgun and obvious passing formations, would Webb be close? Doubtful. With that being said, I think the OL takes a lot of criticism for some of Cutlers mistakes holding the ball.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:11 PM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Then you can assume then, why go after a LT anyways. If Kromer can improve Webb, then he becomes as good as a tackle many here wants.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:28 PM
Re: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
illsports wrote: In the same offense, with a high percentage of shotgun and obvious passing formations, would Webb be close? Doubtful. With that being said, I think the OL takes a lot of criticism for some of Cutlers mistakes holding the ball. Hard to say. Since the OL has such a group dynamic to it, would it be easier playing with a group of better players?
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Posted: 2/1/2013 12:51 PM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Lmao.
Well, I guess we are all entitled to our opinions, even though I think the OP's opinions sucks! Lol, jk.
"Bushrod is better than Webb." That's all that needs to be said. He is a better run blocker and I really can't think of any game that I watched Bushrod get shoved back into the QB or that I've seen him beaten like a red-headed step child by a speed rush. I'm no OL expert by any means, but I never watched Bushrod get beaten based solely on just poor technique, the way that I've watched Webb get beaten over the last 3 season. Webb is awful and Bushrod is definately an upgrade over that joke of a OT.
As for Beatty...I'm not a fan. I wouldn't be pissed if the Bears signed him, but from my understanding he is prone to penalties and has had 1 good season. The rest of the time, he had trouble cracking the starting lineup and staying healthy from what I remember. He was a 2nd round pick with expectations and he never lived up to them and that is why the Giants may let him test the open market. I tend to want the Bears to steer-clear of guys who play well in their contract years, because it's hard to tell if they finally "get it" or are just "getting it" to get that payday.
Bushrod on the other hand, has been pretty solid over the last 2 or 3 seasons and has done a good job of protecting Brees' blindside...such a good job that Sandra Bullock would be proud lol, jk. He excels in run blocking but does well enough in pass protection to keep Brees upright and he hasn't allowed a ton of sacks during his career either. No, he isn't dominate by any means, but he is solid. Jay Cutler would be happy to have someone like him protecting his blindside, rather than continuing to stick with Webb.
Regardless of my thoughts on the LT position, it's up to Trestman and Kromer. If Kromer feels Bushrod would be a good fit, then I think we'll sign him. If he likes Beatty (cough, bad choice, cough lol, jk) and thinks he'd be a good fit, then I would hope we'd sign him. For the first time in maybe 5 years or so, I actually have faith in our OC and OL coach. If Kromer feels that Webb is good enough (gulp!), then I think he gets one more shot at the job and Jay Cutler will probably be very upset.
Regardless, because the OP doesn't agree with my guy, I will now taunt him and call him names!
Lmao!
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--- Anytime23 wrote:
In before BF247 throws down the gauntlet.
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"Tell Mike (Martz) I said f**k him!!" - Jay Cutler
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Posted: 2/1/2013 1:32 PM
Re: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
ChiFan24 wrote: Thought I should just make a thread on that, because I'm noticing people getting excited about the possibility of signing the guy. He's not terrible. Better than J'Marcus Webb. Not worth getting excited about, and probably not one of the 5 best tackles figuring to hit the open market. I wouldn't want to hand the guy a big contract.
I'll go ahead and let the PFF guys back up what I'm saying, because I can't imagine he carries a high rating.
I would also like someone to look at Will Beatty's PFF rating. He's been much better from what I've seen, and physically, he's a lot more intriguing. +1 He grades out higher then Webb but that doesn't mean he is a very good LT. If the Bears sunk a lot of money into him, it be a big mistake. "Illusions Micheal, illusions. Tricks are something that a whore does for money.....or cocaine". - Gob Bluth
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Posted: 2/1/2013 2:16 PM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Those PFF rankings are interesting. Granted it's just one site's opinion, but it does seem like there might be an opportunity for the Bears to grab some hidden value without having to break the bank for one of the "big names".
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:12 PM
Re: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Cubfan41 wrote:
ChiFan24 wrote: Thought I should just make a thread on that, because I'm noticing people getting excited about the possibility of signing the guy. He's not terrible. Better than J'Marcus Webb. Not worth getting excited about, and probably not one of the 5 best tackles figuring to hit the open market. I wouldn't want to hand the guy a big contract.
I'll go ahead and let the PFF guys back up what I'm saying, because I can't imagine he carries a high rating.
I would also like someone to look at Will Beatty's PFF rating. He's been much better from what I've seen, and physically, he's a lot more intriguing.
+1
He grades out higher then Webb but that doesn't mean he is a very good LT. If the Bears sunk a lot of money into him, it be a big mistake. So then the question becomes...who do we sign or start at possibly the most important position on our weak offensive line??? Webb? The guy has been awful. As I mentioned above, the guy doesn't JUST have issues with getting beat or pushed around, he has issues with technique and it constantly bites him in the ass. I don't need LT rankings to show me what I've been able to witness with my own two eyes these last 2 seasons. Webb is THE WORST left tackle in the NFL, PERIOD! Free agent route: Bushrod...it's been established that I think he'd be a good addition, but others don't feel the same based on LT rankings. He's still an upgrade over the crap we've been plugging in at the position for the last 5 years now (remember St. Clair? Omiyale? Webb?). Beatty...Coming off of ONE good season as a starting LT in the NFL, just doesn't do it for me. Not that I'd be pissed if he was signed, I just happen to like Bushrod a bit more. Jake Long...I've read several reports about the guy and how he just might be on the last leg of his short NFL career. Maybe a change of scenery would help him, or maybe he turns into Orlando Pace? Another guy I wouldn't be pissed if we signed, but I would sure hope that we don't overpay for him. Ryan Clady...He IS NOT leaving Denver, simple as that. Sam Baker...Injury prone LT, who has had 1 decent season (2012). Another LT that I wouldn't be opposed to snagging if the price was right, but the back issues trouble me. Branden Albert...Here we go, now we are talking!! I think this guy is probably the best LT in the bunch to be honest. The only way I see him leaving KC, is if they draft Joekel #1 overall and even then, they STILL might hit him with the franchise tag. My guess is that they might let him test the market though, considering they used a 3rd rounder on a backup LT last season, Stephenson (OU). I'd LOVE for the Bears to snatch him up, but at what cost?? NFL Draft?? There are 3 guys, according to the "experts" who could step in and start right away at LT...Joekel, Fisher, Johnson. I do not see a scenario that one of them will make it to #20 and I do not see a scenario that the Bears trade up to get one of them, based on having only 5 draft picks this year. What that means, is that IF the Bears are counting on the draft to acquire their cornerstone LT, they may have to wait until round 2 or maybe even round 4, to draft a kid who has a ton of upside, but needs time to develop. In that scenario, there is a definate chance that we'd have to stick with Webb for another season (YIKES!). With that said, it all goes right back to Kromer and Trestman. Do they think that Webb can be good enough to keep around at LT?? Or do they view him as the fans do, and think that he isn't worth a sh*t and needs to be replaced?? We'll see come March, when free-agency opens up. My guess is that IF the Bears do not acquire a LT within the first couple of days, then I assume they are willing to give Webb another chance to prove that he sucks just a little bit less, LOL. "Tell Mike (Martz) I said f**k him!!" - Jay Cutler
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:24 PM
Re: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Bearsfan247 wrote: So then the question becomes...who do we sign or start at possibly the most important position on our weak offensive line???
Well, you don't start right off with someone who isn't a very good player. Bushrod is okay to solid but he is not great and he will be asking for a pretty penny. Not sure he is worth it. The only way I sign him to a deal is if you don't find anyone else who is better and you sign him to deal but only with the full intention of him being a LT solution for a short period only and flip him to RT once you find a LT long term solution. That of course means, Carimi will be a complete bust since I don't think Emery nor Tressman see him as a guard. Just my 2 cents. "Illusions Micheal, illusions. Tricks are something that a whore does for money.....or cocaine". - Gob Bluth
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:45 PM
Re: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Cubfan41 wrote:
Bearsfan247 wrote: So then the question becomes...who do we sign or start at possibly the most important position on our weak offensive line???
Well, you don't start right off with someone who isn't a very good player. Bushrod is okay to solid but he is not great and he will be asking for a pretty penny. Not sure he is worth it. The only way I sign him to a deal is if you don't find anyone else who is better and you sign him to deal but only with the full intention of him being a LT solution for a short period only and flip him to RT once you find a LT long term solution. That of course means, Carimi will be a complete bust since I don't think Emery nor Tressman see him as a guard. Just my 2 cents. True. It's just a tough situation all around. Not only did the drafting of current bust Chris Williams set this organization back, but so did ignoring the OL as whole since pretty much 2007. Man...I brought up St. Clair and Omiyale and it's just a reminder of how much the OL was truly ignored for years and years. Hell, everyone knew that Tait's career was coming to an end and they did NOTHING to replace his solid play. They all knew that Kreutz' career was coming to an end and NOTHING was done to replace his solid play. The list goes on and on. All that was done was the Bears plugged in underachievers, undrafted rookies, horrible free-agent signings (Pace, Omiyale) and late round draft picks and expected the OL to fix itself pretty much. I like to think that is the reason that Jerry Angelo was fired. I'd also like to think that is the reason that Lovie Smith was also fired. You just cannot ignore your offensive line and do what they did with that unit and expect it to get better. I knew that hiring Tice wasn't going to fix the issue from day 1. It wasn't just a coaching issue, it's a talent issue. And right now, the Bears have very little talent on that unit. It's going to be a tough, tough job for Emery, Trestman and Kromer to fix that problem. It's not only the starting 5 that needs fixed...we also need quality depth. "Tell Mike (Martz) I said f**k him!!" - Jay Cutler
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Posted: 2/1/2013 5:02 PM
Re: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
I'm sure im the minority on here but, it would be o.k with me if we gave Webb and Carimi another year at the tackle. The guys are young, and i want to see what Kromer can do with them . I would like to see us go after a gaurd or tight end in free agency. Use free agency on offense, draft on defense, providing we improve on o-line and t-end in free agency. Flame Away  |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 5:48 PM
Re: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Bearsfan247 wrote:
Cubfan41 wrote:
Bearsfan247 wrote: So then the question becomes...who do we sign or start at possibly the most important position on our weak offensive line???
Well, you don't start right off with someone who isn't a very good player. Bushrod is okay to solid but he is not great and he will be asking for a pretty penny. Not sure he is worth it. The only way I sign him to a deal is if you don't find anyone else who is better and you sign him to deal but only with the full intention of him being a LT solution for a short period only and flip him to RT once you find a LT long term solution. That of course means, Carimi will be a complete bust since I don't think Emery nor Tressman see him as a guard. Just my 2 cents. True.
It's just a tough situation all around. Not only did the drafting of current bust Chris Williams set this organization back, but so did ignoring the OL as whole since pretty much 2007.
Man...I brought up St. Clair and Omiyale and it's just a reminder of how much the OL was truly ignored for years and years.
Hell, everyone knew that Tait's career was coming to an end and they did NOTHING to replace his solid play. They all knew that Kreutz' career was coming to an end and NOTHING was done to replace his solid play. The list goes on and on. All that was done was the Bears plugged in underachievers, undrafted rookies, horrible free-agent signings (Pace, Omiyale) and late round draft picks and expected the OL to fix itself pretty much.
I like to think that is the reason that Jerry Angelo was fired. I'd also like to think that is the reason that Lovie Smith was also fired. You just cannot ignore your offensive line and do what they did with that unit and expect it to get better.
I knew that hiring Tice wasn't going to fix the issue from day 1. It wasn't just a coaching issue, it's a talent issue. And right now, the Bears have very little talent on that unit.
It's going to be a tough, tough job for Emery, Trestman and Kromer to fix that problem. It's not only the starting 5 that needs fixed...we also need quality depth. How can you say they did NOTHING then say they added horrible FA pick ups. Pace/Omiyale weren't known to be bad pickups but they were failed attempts. They spent a lot of money in order to get them, Pace mad 6 MIL. Plus, they specifically spent a 14th overall pick on the top LT prospect on the board in Chris Williams to replace Tait. Then they wanted to try Beekman a 4th round pick as the future center after Kruetz. Just when Tice came in he decided Beekman was too small for him and he flat out sucked in the pre-season at center. It's not just numbers making Bushrod seem not great. Watching the games makes it obvious because he plays besides the NFL's near, if not, best Interior 3 line and with a QB who knows how to avoid pressure with that solid pocket and frequently gets rid of the ball at quick rates.
Last edited 2/1/2013 5:49 PM by ClydeLee
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Posted: 2/1/2013 6:37 PM
Re: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
I agree. It wasn't that Angelo ignore the OL IMO. He drafted two first round tackles in his last four years as the Bears GM to go along with spending good money in FA and other pickups. Its just none of them really workout. The killer to me was Williams. He was supposed to be the LT for the next 10 years and the guy can't even a roster spot for four years. Had he panned out, they would have not had 1/2 the problems they did. But he was total bust and honestly the Angelo/LoLovie era never got over it and therefore came to eventual end. --------------------------------------------- --- ClydeLee wrote: Bearsfan247 wrote:
Cubfan41 wrote:
Bearsfan247 wrote: So then the question becomes...who do we sign or start at possibly the most important position on our weak offensive line???
Well, you don't start right off with someone who isn't a very good player. Bushrod is okay to solid but he is not great and he will be asking for a pretty penny. Not sure he is worth it. The only way I sign him to a deal is if you don't find anyone else who is better and you sign him to deal but only with the full intention of him being a LT solution for a short period only and flip him to RT once you find a LT long term solution. That of course means, Carimi will be a complete bust since I don't think Emery nor Tressman see him as a guard.
Just my 2 cents.
True.
It's just a tough situation all around. Not only did the drafting of current bust Chris Williams set this organization back, but so did ignoring the OL as whole since pretty much 2007.
Man...I brought up St. Clair and Omiyale and it's just a reminder of how much the OL was truly ignored for years and years.
Hell, everyone knew that Tait's career was coming to an end and they did NOTHING to replace his solid play. They all knew that Kreutz' career was coming to an end and NOTHING was done to replace his solid play. The list goes on and on. All that was done was the Bears plugged in underachievers, undrafted rookies, horrible free-agent signings (Pace, Omiyale) and late round draft picks and expected the OL to fix itself pretty much.
I like to think that is the reason that Jerry Angelo was fired. I'd also like to think that is the reason that Lovie Smith was also fired. You just cannot ignore your offensive line and do what they did with that unit and expect it to get better.
I knew that hiring Tice wasn't going to fix the issue from day 1. It wasn't just a coaching issue, it's a talent issue. And right now, the Bears have very little talent on that unit.
It's going to be a tough, tough job for Emery, Trestman and Kromer to fix that problem. It's not only the starting 5 that needs fixed...we also need quality depth. How can you say they did NOTHING then say they added horrible FA pick ups. Pace/Omiyale weren't known to be bad pickups but they were failed attempts. They spent a lot of money in order to get them, Pace mad 6 MIL. Plus, they specifically spent a 14th overall pick on the top LT prospect on the board in Chris Williams to replace Tait. Then they wanted to try Beekman a 4th round pick as the future center after Kruetz. Just when Tice came in he decided Beekman was too small for him and he flat out sucked in the pre-season at center. It's not just numbers making Bushrod seem not great. Watching the games makes it obvious because he plays besides the NFL's near, if not, best Interior 3 line and with a QB who knows how to avoid pressure with that solid pocket and frequently gets rid of the ball at quick rates. --------------------------------------------- "Illusions Micheal, illusions. Tricks are something that a whore does for money.....or cocaine". - Gob Bluth
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Posted: 2/1/2013 7:52 PM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Oh, my bad clyde...I should have said that the OL wasn't ignored, it was simply treated like sh*t, by trying to fix positions with has-beens, underachievers, terrible scouting and late round picks. No, the Bears didn't ignore the OL in a literal sense....they ignored the offense as a whole by neglecting the sh*t out of the offensive line. They did the same thing with the QB and WR positions for years...now they've done it to the TE position as well as the OL.
Sorry about that fellas.
Anyways, there is this same discussion going on in a totally different thread. This thread is about Bushrod not being that good in the eyes of some, not about the horrible job that the Bears have done with the OL since '07.
"Tell Mike (Martz) I said f**k him!!" - Jay Cutler
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Last edited 2/1/2013 8:18 PM by Bearsfan247
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:57 PM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Well they got to the super bowl with two has beens, 1 guy without an ACL, and 1 smart big money signing that paid out. So saying to take chances on other young guys and has beens was dumb wasn't the issue. It's the execution that needs to be acknowledged.
Bushrod isn't an actual upgrade, that's where the issue is and spending the money needed to get him for the team would be doing the same thing that has been happening the last 6 years. Not ignoring the line, but making dumb decisions.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 11:16 PM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
So then the question goes right back to....who do we sign or draft at LT to improve the OL or do we stick with Webb for another season?
I think Bushrod is a better player than some are giving him credit for on this board. It doesn't make me right or wrong, it's just my opinion. I feel that adding Bushrod to play LT would make our OL better.
I guess I must have missed the part where Bushrod's agent came out and stated that they want a "break the bank" type of contract?
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--- ClydeLee wrote:
Well they got to the super bowl with two has beens, 1 guy without an ACL, and 1 smart big money signing that paid out. So saying to take chances on other young guys and has beens was dumb wasn't the issue. It's the execution that needs to be acknowledged.
Bushrod isn't an actual upgrade, that's where the issue is and spending the money needed to get him for the team would be doing the same thing that has been happening the last 6 years. Not ignoring the line, but making dumb decisions.
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"Tell Mike (Martz) I said f**k him!!" - Jay Cutler
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Posted: 2/2/2013 9:53 AM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
600K vs anything Bushrod gets is a big contract.
I think Bushrod is a worse player than many give him credit for on this and other boards. Scheme and talent around you and how they play make giant impacts in how you can preform and how your grades or states will measure out. He is the worst or 2nd worst player on the line but he is an average capable player in that situation.
Last edited 2/2/2013 9:55 AM by ClydeLee
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Posted: 2/3/2013 3:48 AM
RE: Jermon Bushrod is not a very good player
Maybe the lesson here is that in New Orleans Kromer built his line based on dominant inner three and not like most people think, that the Tackles are the most important. Not a bad way to go considering guards are available and cheaper than tackles and with a solid interior, even Bushrod or perhaps even Webb can look good. Here's to bringing in three new interior lineman asap!!!!
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