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Presidents Proposal

Posted: 1/17/2013 7:27 AM

Presidents Proposal 


What do you see????
What do you think??
How will his proposal effect you???

LINK

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Posted: 1/17/2013 11:34 AM

Re: Presidents Proposal 


This report on reactions:

Republicans spent Tuesday announcing that whatever Obama was about to announce in order to help curb gun violence in America was "tyranny." So, did the announcement of Obama's actual executive orders quell the fears of the paranoid? Of course not, and so we spent the entirety of the day listening to generic statements about how Obama's list of seemingly not all-that-controversial small actions is, in fact, definitely still tyranny.

Notably absent in any of the statements was a specific note of which specific Obama executive orders were the outrageous ones. Are we still going to impeach Obama? For which thing, for promising to nominate an ATF director? For informing the CDC that their scientists are, in fact, allowed to at least examine the issue of gun violence? The bit about more armed security officers in schools, which was the National Rifle Association's greatest plan ever but which presumably is what Hitler would have done, now that Obama actually agreed to it? Let's run down the list of oh-so-wounded responses.

Sen. Marco Rubio:

“Nothing the President is proposing would have stopped the massacre at Sandy Hook. President Obama is targeting the 2nd Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens instead of seriously addressing the real underlying causes of such violence. Rolling back responsible citizens’ rights is not the proper response to tragedies committed by criminals and the mentally ill. Making matters worse is that President Obama is again abusing his power by imposing his policies via executive fiat instead of allowing them to be debated in Congress. President Obama’s frustration with our republic and the way it works doesn’t give him license to ignore the Constitution.
Which orders? Where's the problem? No clue, possibly because Marco Rubio is too dumb to read through the list and decide.

Rick Perry, who is just phoning it in from Xanax-and-booze-land, at this point:

"There is evil prowling in the world - it shows up in our movies, video games and online fascinations, and finds its way into vulnerable hearts and minds. As a free people, let us choose what kind of people we will be. Laws, the only redoubt of secularism, will not suffice. Let us all return to our places of worship and pray for help. Above all, let us pray for our children.

"In fact, the piling on by the political left, and their cohorts in the media, to use the massacre of little children to advance a pre-existing political agenda that would not have saved those children, disgusts me, personally. The second amendment to the Constitution is a basic right of free people and cannot be nor will it be abridged by the executive power of this or any other president."

Yes, how outrageous that someone try to do something, as a result of a tragedy. Something other than shrugging our shoulders and going off to pray for more competent leaders, anyway.

The Republican National Committee, still run by eternal twelve year old Reince Preibus:

“President Obama’s series of gun control measures amount to an executive power grab that may please his political base but will not solve the problems at hand. He paid lip service to our fundamental constitutional rights, but took actions that disregard the 2nd Amendment and the legislative process. Representative government is meant to give voice to the people; President Obama’s unilateral executive action ignores this principle,” said RNC Chairman Reince Priebus.
Again, which goddamn actions are the outrageous ones? Do we have to offer a cash reward for the first yokel to tell us exactly what part of Obama's executive orders they find so damn offensive?

Murderer's Row, formerly known as the National Rifle Association:

Attacking firearms and ignoring children is not a solution to the crisis we face as a nation. Only honest, law-abiding gun owners will be affected and our children will remain vulnerable to the inevitability of more tragedy.
If you were looking for more substantive criticisms than a sniffling pout over Obama "attacking firearms" (silly Obama, everyone knows children are the real cause of gun violence, not guns), you'll have to look elsewhere.

The entire government of Mississippi, which on the bright side apparently still has a government of sorts and has not gone all Mad Max on us just yet:

Leading the charge to ignore new federal regulations is Mississippi, where the state’s Republican governor and state House speaker took to the mics right after Obama finished announcing his plans and pledged to ensure the ones they don’t like don’t take effect in the state.

The Constitution is clear that such an effort would be illegal. Nevertheless, the Mississippi leaders say they have a plan.

Bonus points to Mississippi Gov. Phil Bryant for the nearly zenlike defense of one metric buttload of unregulated weaponry for any Mississippian that wants it: "“When it’s for self protection, you need as much firepower as needed to protect your family."

Genius, that guy.

And then there's Rand Paul. Rand Paul may or may not be angling for a spot as America's dumbest senator—I don't know, I'm not privy to the Republican mind—but he wants you to know that the President's outrageous executive orders, things like nominating someone to head the ATF and maybe looking at how to let the appropriate agencies more easily share information about crazy people who really shouldn't be allowed to buy guns, this tyranny will not stand.

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) has a plan to undo President Obama’s executive actions on guns. […]

“We only have descriptions of the executive actions, yet many could be construed to describe an attempt by the executive to make laws in violation of the Article 1, Sec. 8 of the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment,” reads the one-page summary of the Paul plan shared with TPM by his staff.

Paul’s bill will set out to nullify Obama’s executive actions, deny any federal funding for their implementation, and allow members of Congress and state officials to challenge the actions in court.

Which ones, among the executive orders, are the ones that "make laws in violation" of the Constitution as understood by Rand Paul? Hell if he knows—his one-page document doesn't mention a single one of them—but he's aginnit anyway. Sweet Jesus, these people have sailed so far past the shores of reality that they can't even remember what reality looks like.

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Posted: 1/17/2013 1:21 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 


From a fan....    "Oooooooh snap."

Crump7- A supporter of cop killers
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Posted: 1/17/2013 2:22 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 


The executive orders aren't an issue for me, because as I've already pointed out, you couldn't possibly abolish 2nd amendment rights through executive order.

The issue to me here is that we're addressing a perceived problem by taking measures that would have in no way shape or form prevented the tragedy.  We're limiting the rights of law abiding citizens when the problem is those that break the law.
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Posted: 1/17/2013 2:28 PM

RE: Presidents Proposal 


I'm curious. Do the guns the Obama administration handed over to the Mexican cartels who used them to murder people count under the proposed weapons ban?
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Posted: 1/17/2013 3:05 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 



gr82bAnAUTiger wrote: We're limiting the rights of law abiding citizens when the problem is those that break the law.
stop wasting space and money and mandatory minims on drug users/cases

and lock up people that commit violent crimes/gun violence
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Posted: 1/17/2013 3:27 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 


Obama's proposal is to throw more money at a non-problem and a problem that can't be resolved. Yay
---------------------------------------------------------

"I have never understood why it is 'greed' to want to keep the money you've earned, but not greed to want to take someone else's money."

- Thomas Sowell
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Posted: 1/17/2013 4:50 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 



sturg33 wrote: Obama's proposal is to throw more money at a non-problem and a problem that can't be resolved. Yay
no doubt

this is like an asteroid coming to hit earth. NOTHING can be done
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Posted: 1/17/2013 6:12 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 



sturg33 wrote: Obama's proposal is to throw more money at a non-problem and a problem that can't be resolved. Yay
Will you cite which provisions and how much money?
let me help:


Here's the list, via the White House. (I did not engage in complication reporter-fu to get this. It's the general fact sheet.)

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
11. Nominate an ATF director.
12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

Last edited 1/17/2013 6:40 PM by 57Brave

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Posted: 1/17/2013 10:16 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 



57Brave wrote:
sturg33 wrote: Obama's proposal is to throw more money at a non-problem and a problem that can't be resolved. Yay
Will you cite which provisions and how much money?
let me help:
Obama's team estimated it at 500 million, not a lot when you have a trillion dollar debt, but why are we spending even more money we don't have?
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Posted: 1/17/2013 10:48 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 


Because for instance universal backround checks would cost money. According to CBS/NYTimes poll released today, 93% are in favor of universal backround checks. Another might be is it is being reported some of the Sandy Hook children were found riddled with  up to 11 bullet holes.

I really don't know how you put a price tag on that. And, if you really feel you have to,  $10M per state seems pretty cheap. Shoot, here in Fla instead of drug testing unemployment compensation people we could pretty much pay for the saftey measures being discussed. One poster suggested ending the war on drugs and using that money as a sort of peace dividend.

My thoughts gr8 are the time spent  freaking out over the sticker price -- could be used  finding  ways to afford it. We are after all the greatest nation on earth, right?
Like the kids say, "no brainer"

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Posted: 1/17/2013 11:21 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 



57Brave wrote: Because for instance universal backround checks would cost money. According to CBS/NYTimes poll released today, 93% are in favor of universal backround checks. Another might be is it is being reported some of the Sandy Hook children were found riddled with  up to 11 bullet holes.

I really don't know how you put a price tag on that. And, if you really feel you have to,  $10M per state seems pretty cheap. Shoot, here in Fla instead of drug testing unemployment compensation people we could pretty much pay for the saftey measures being discussed. One poster suggested ending the war on drugs and using that money as a sort of peace dividend.

My thoughts gr8 are the time spent  freaking out over the sticker price -- could be used  finding  ways to afford it. We are after all the greatest nation on earth, right?
Like the kids say, "no brainer"
You're implying that we could spend $500m and eliminate the chances of someone killing elementary school kids.  Sorry, it doesn't work like that.  It's just pissing money down a bottomless hole.
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Posted: 1/17/2013 11:59 PM

Re: Presidents Proposal 


I implied  no such thing.

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Posted: 1/18/2013 7:58 AM

Re: Presidents Proposal 


Still no one has commented on how it will effect them! I know there are some firearm owners on this board --- what will this mean to your shooting activities - purchasing -- the act of owning etc.

Ir I read this properly the whole of gun ownership is grandfathered in.
Is that right?

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Posted: 1/18/2013 9:26 AM

Re: Presidents Proposal 



57Brave wrote: Still no one has commented on how it will effect them! I know there are some firearm owners on this board --- what will this mean to your shooting activities - purchasing -- the act of owning etc.

Ir I read this properly the whole of gun ownership is grandfathered in.
Is that right?
They've commented on it enough the last month don't you remember?

All the 1930's Germany references, all the 1900's-1950's gun control in authoritarian country references, etc.

I think their opinions are clear enough now.
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Posted: 1/18/2013 10:41 AM

Re: Presidents Proposal 



57Brave wrote: I implied  no such thing.
So, if spending the money won't stop elementary kids from getting shot, why are you using the shootings as some sort of justification for spending the money we don't have?

We can't keep printing money like we are, we're going to get HUGE inflation when the other countries decide enough is enough.
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Posted: 1/18/2013 11:35 AM

Re: Presidents Proposal 



gr82bAnAUTiger wrote:
57Brave wrote: I implied  no such thing.
So, if spending the money won't stop elementary kids from getting shot, why are you using the shootings as some sort of justification for spending the money we don't have?

We can't keep printing money like we are, we're going to get HUGE inflation when the other countries decide enough is enough.

"That'll never happen here" GR8...
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"I have never understood why it is 'greed' to want to keep the money you've earned, but not greed to want to take someone else's money."

- Thomas Sowell
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Posted: 1/18/2013 11:40 AM

Re: Presidents Proposal 



sturg33 wrote:
"That'll never happen here" GR8...
Not following you...
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Posted: 1/18/2013 11:53 AM

Re: Presidents Proposal 


I was mocking the general liberal logic that our spending is not an issue and we will never have to face the bakruptcy/collapse that will come.

Many Americans (from both sides) seem to think that Amercia is simply immune to the lessons of history. And despite us repeating the same mistakes, "it'll never happen here" is a common theme that I believe is sadly mistaken.
---------------------------------------------------------

"I have never understood why it is 'greed' to want to keep the money you've earned, but not greed to want to take someone else's money."

- Thomas Sowell
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Posted: 1/18/2013 11:57 AM

Re: Presidents Proposal 




---------------------------------------------
--- Tomahawking4life wrote:

From a fan....

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It's pretty despicable, honestly. First the union rallies, now this. It's not appropriate to use kids as political propaganda, don't care what team you play for.
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