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A historically bad Braves Offense

Posted: 8/14/2014 1:10 PM

A historically bad Braves Offense 


In the last 25 years, compared to other Braves teams, this Braves team ranks:

25th OBP .308 25th (ties with 2011)
25th Slugging .368 (24th, 2011,  is .387, which means they're closer to 17th than 25th)
25th OPS .677 (2011 .695, only 2 years under .700)
25th Runs per game 3.7 (2011 3.96, only 2 years under 4)
25th Strike outs per Plate Appearance (Worst 4 are last 4 years, each year increasing)
24th Batting average .244, (2011 .243, only 4 total under .250 with high of .284 in '03)
24th Walks per Plate Appearance (25th 1990)
24th HR per Plate Appearance (25th 2008)
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Posted: 8/14/2014 1:36 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


Great work
Pitching and Defense wins Championships
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Posted: 8/14/2014 1:40 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


Well, I guess we all sort of thought that might be the case, but thanks for putting it all together for us. Other than LaStella it almost seems as if NO ONE on the team is having a good year, let alone any sort of career year.

I remember well the days when you'd breath easier because we'd just won our 62nd game and you knew that at least there wouldn't be 100 losses that year. This team plays better defense and pitches a lot better than those, but we don't hit any better that's for sure. And you just have to figure that with us scoring 2-3 runs per game after awhile the pitchers are going to get really discouraged and the roof's going to fall in on us.

Thing about it is, it's essentially the same team that won the division last year, less Huddy and Heap. Santana is 12-6 with an ERA under 4.0, so it's definitely not his fault.  Wood has a solid ERA. Harang has probably done better than most tought he would. Only Minor has looked like a trainwreck (lately).

It just seems like we are stuck in the mud offensively.

rtr

Last edited 8/14/2014 1:42 PM by BamaMick

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Posted: 8/14/2014 1:54 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


there's no accountability for the poor ABs.

about 6 weeks ago discussing with a friend of mine, this team just flat out quit taking walks.

remember how bad Dan Uggla was was his 2nd year? He still walked 94 times... still scored almost 90 runs.

it's one of the reason I included the BBs per PA in the stats, this team swings at everything... with no power...

that's not stuck in the mud, that's no discipline... this team has no discipline at the plate

the two worst offenders now that Uggla is gone?

B.J. Upton and Chris Johnson. 21 Million Dollars on next year's payroll, and they'll combine for 300 strikeouts and 20 home runs... Upton at least walks every so often... Johnson's K/BB ratio is close to 10-1... that's God Awful.




BamaMick wrote: It just seems like we are stuck in the mud offensively.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 3:37 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


So if the players we have are so bad and we cant win with the players we have, what does Wren have to do?

I keep getting told that this guy and that guy cant be traded. 

I go back a long way and remember when Harvey Kuenn batted .350 in CF and was surrounded by Al Kaline and PawPaw Maxwell yet was traded that off season.  Tigers still didnt win much but at least their GM didnt sleep at the wheel.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 3:47 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


Hope he gets permission to get bailed out of his horrendous mistakes...

or as Braves fans, hoping whoever is GM gets permission to get bailed out.

BJ Upton - Disaster
Dan Uggla - Disaster
Worst 3B in MLB according to WAR, just got contract extension, disaster.

the places where we are the worst, are the places where we have the most money invested. The guys that we have are bad, aren't just bad, they're expensive.

I posted this on another board a couple weeks ago, but it still holds true:

----

the Braves Scouting and development is the only reason they are any good at all.

If you take the starting 8 and including Uggla to make it 9... you have to include him, because you're still paying him...

Frank Wren Imports:

Imports: Upton, Upton, Uggla, Johnson
Homegrown: Gattis, Simmons, Freeman, Heyward, La Stella

Imports: $45.5 Million / -.6 WAR
Homegrown: $11.7 Million / 12.3 WAR

you can't win as a mid market team when half your payroll is costing you games.

-----

Braves already ate one contract in Uggla, in order to get better, they'll need to eat at least one more in Upton and hope to find anyone willing to take Chris Johnson.

unfortunately, those 3 guys (Uggla) make up almost 1/3 of the payroll.


PawPawMaxwell wrote: So if the players we have are so bad and we cant win with the players we have, what does Wren have to do?

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Posted: 8/14/2014 4:37 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


What I read you are saying is that we have to get rid of the bad players  and we have to shed some money to get better players.

BJ Upton may be tradeable but at a cost of eating lots of money or taking on someone elses BJ.

Personally I dont think Johnson will be that difficult to move.  May have to sweeten the deal with a prospect. 

What kind of returns would you like to see?

Frustration edit, forgot biggest question I had to add.  What would you actually expect in return for Johnson or BJ?
My position is that to rebuild to what we are used to and with 2017 and new stadium on the horizon, we will have to give quality to get quality

In order for my trade players would be Andrelton, Kimbrel and Gattis .  Reason I hesitate on Gattis the most is his cost compared to production tho he undoubtedly would bring a huge return.

Last edited 8/14/2014 4:46 PM by PawPawMaxwell

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Posted: 8/14/2014 4:51 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


yup, what I'm saying is to upgrade the two biggest black holes on the team, CJ Johnson and BJ Upton, we're going to have to be willing to eat a lot of their contracts. We already ate 15 million of Dan Uggla with no return.

if you believe in WAR, by far the two worst players on the team are Upton and Johnson, and they're not just the two worst on the team, they're two of the worst in all of MLB.

getting rid of them would be addition by subtraction.

I'd just be looking for some payroll relief, someone to take on some of their contract in hopes of rehabilitating their careers in Upton's case, and paying Johnson more of what he's worth, which is a bench player who should be making closer to the minimum, not starting the 1st year of a $24 Million contract.

The Braves have $60 million, +15 Million for Uggla next year, tied up in 3 of the worst players in baseball, one of whom isn't even in baseball any more (Uggla).

Those contracts are albatrosses on a mid market team.

what would I want in return? Anything I could get to get those two out of the lineup. It's ironic that in baseball, a guy's job could be safe because he's making too much money.


PawPawMaxwell wrote: What I read you are saying is that we have to get rid of the bad players  and we have to shed some money to get better players.

BJ Upton may be tradeable but at a cost of eating lots of money or taking on someone elses BJ.

Personally I dont think Johnson will be that difficult to move.  May have to sweeten the deal with a prospect. 

What kind of returns would you like to see?
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Posted: 8/14/2014 5:00 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


They will have to "punt" 2015 and probably 2016 to get rid of BJ and Johnson. They don't have
the $ to replace them with anybody good or the prospects to plug in their positions.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 7:41 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


I would not mind seeing Chipper Jones be the new hitting coach if changes are made to the staff.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 10:37 AM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


^ Chipper will be the next manager once Freddie gets the boot.......tongue

Wait sorry im dreaming
#dukegang
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Posted: 8/15/2014 11:45 AM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


For them to be better he had better be a 'player-manager', like in the old days.

The more I think about the makeup of this team the more depressed I get.

rtr
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Posted: 8/15/2014 2:38 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


Scott,  Let me try and get this out of my head and on the screen for discussion purposes.

NYY:  A-Rod insists he is coming back next year.  Headley will be a FA.  I doubt the Yanks want to deal with A-Rod and Headley will test FA IMO.  A-Rod is owed approx 61M over next 3 years. 

Would it be viable to see if A-Rod has anything left in spring training.  Assume the best out of him production wise.

We trade BJ to Yanks for A-rod and 16M.  What that does is allow us to clear the books with Uggla and postpone BJ draining us for at least a year.  If A-Rod puts anything up in 2015 then in 2016 try to move him to an AL team needing a DH.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 5:30 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


Yankees will be trying to get ARod and CC  on the PUPS list so that they can get the
insurance money (80%) and use it to upgrade with lower cost replacement players.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 5:47 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


You know this somehow?  And I assume insurance companies will perform due dilligence.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 6:47 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


I don't think the braves would want ARod, even if it meant swapping him for Upton. I don't think Arod has anything left, and he'd be just as divisive and just as expensive.

We've seen a willingness to bench Upton, that's a start, and Santana will come off the books next year freeing up 14 million, though a lot of those new contracts start kicking in next season.

I don't really have any idea what will happen, I still like the idea of Gattis in left, Justin in right and Heyward in center with Bethancourt catching.


That's an internal option, and Bonafacio isn't going to be any worse than BJ if we go that direction in center.

But all of it hinges on the willingness to eat 45 million of BJs contract, whether it's through a release like Uggla, or sitting on the bench like Uggla before he was released.

But I'd certainly be willing to trade a bad contract for a bad contract if there was any hope of getting production for that money, I just don't think there is with ARod.

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Posted: 8/15/2014 7:13 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 





---------------------------------------------
--- ChasTiger78 wrote:

Yankees will be trying to get ARod and CC  on the PUPS list so that they can get the
insurance money (80%) and use it to upgrade with lower cost replacement players.

---------------------------------------------

There is not a PUP list in baseball. In baseball it is the DL. Physically Unable to Perform (PUP) is a designationed used in the National Football League for players who suffer from football-related injuries during the preseason. PUP players may participate in team meetings, and take advantage of the training and medical facilities, but cannot practice with the team.

There are two separate PUP lists: a preseason PUP list and a regular-season PUP list.
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Posted: 8/16/2014 3:20 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


A player can be designated "physically unable to perform" by qualified medical personnel
which gets the team out of most of the burden of his salary and puts it on the insurance
company. I was trying to point out that this is what the some in the industry expect the
Yankees to try to accomplish with ARod and possibly with CC.
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Posted: 8/16/2014 4:05 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


I've never heard of PUP used as a baseball term. That is a football term. Football does not use DL they use PUP. When a baseball player can't play he is disabled once medical staff has determined he can't play. There is a 7 day, 15 day, 60 day disabled list. I understand the concept of the DL I just can't fine the term PUP as it relates to baseball anywhere on the internet or in my memory. I'm not sure what it is called in basketball.


Yes baseball teams try to place players on the DL to get insurance relief if they took insurance out on that player. Some players are uninsurable. There is no such thing as a PUP list in baseball.


en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physic...able_to_Perform

Last edited 8/16/2014 4:13 PM by SpartanBaller

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Posted: 8/16/2014 5:44 PM

Re: A historically bad Braves Offense 


Chas,  Suggest you ask Peter Angelos how well your suggestion worked in the Albert Belle situation.
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