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BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current minors

  • rlwhite
  • Braves Super Scout
  • 2222 posts this site

Posted: 3/27/2013 1:13 PM

BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current minors 


Last edited 3/27/2013 1:23 PM by PatioDaddio

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Posted: 3/27/2013 1:15 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 


This is why Brave prospects should get the benefit of the doubt from fans.
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  • rlwhite
  • Braves Super Scout
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Posted: 3/27/2013 1:45 PM

Re: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current 


I can't remember the last time the Braves were ranked this low for their current minors, so I think we can expect some drop off in graduating good talent for the next few years.  We have the young major league talent that this hopefully won't be an issue.  Just hope we can restock quickly and cover any long-term injuries/surprises.  I haven't been a fan of the shifts in draft strategy the last 2 years or so.
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Posted: 3/27/2013 1:50 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 


I think the ranking is misleading. Braves have Teheran/Graham/Gattis who could potentially all make impacts on the 2013 roster. Then guys like Wood/Sims/Perraza/Cabrera/Terd in the following two years.

Its not as bad as the rankings look.
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:01 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 


The current system is underrated imo. Wood, Sims, Cabrera and Merejo are very talented pitching prospects with high ceilings. But no one wants to rank them too high because they haven't put in a year with a full season league yet. Ditto for Peraza among the position prospects. A year from now I predict Wood will be a Top 50 prospect, and couple of the others will be in the Top 100.

I also think some of our older upper level guys will turn out better than currently rated by BA and others. I'm talking about Gattis, Terdoslavich, Cunningham, Leonard, La Stella.

And then you have the twin enigmas: Bethancourt and Salcedo. I don't think either will be stars. But both have a good chance to be solid major league players.

We also have some interesting bullpen arms. Generally, I think relief pitchers are not worth that much. But it is helpful to have a pipeline of relievers coming through to keep the cost of the major league pen down. Guys like Jaime, Harper, Cornely, Hyatt, Chris Jones will help do that even if most of them don't pan out. Then you have some others currently starting, whose future might be in the pen: Hale, Northcraft, Schlosser, Martin. A few of them will make good trade bait a la Clemens and Oberholtzer and Hoover.
 
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  • rlwhite
  • Braves Super Scout
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:04 PM

Re: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current 


I could see bumping the Braves up 5, maybe 10 spots, but no further.  The last time I couldn't at least see a case for the Braves having above average talent on the farm, Chuck Lamar was scouting director.
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:06 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 



nsacpi wrote: The current system is underrated imo. Wood, Sims, Cabrera and Merejo are very talented pitching prospects with high ceilings. But no one wants to rank them too high because they haven't put in a year with a full season league yet. Ditto for Peraza among the position prospects. A year from now I predict Wood will be a Top 50 prospect, and couple of the others will be in the Top 100.

I also think some of our older upper level guys will turn out better than currently rated by BA and others. I'm talking about Gattis, Terdoslavich, Cunningham, Leonard, La Stella.

And then you have the twin enigmas: Bethancourt and Salcedo. I don't think either will be stars. But both have a good chance to be solid major league players.

We also have some interesting bullpen arms. Generally, I think relief pitchers are not worth that much. But it is helpful to have a pipeline of relievers coming through to keep the cost of the major league pen down. Guys like Jaime, Harper, Cornely, Hyatt, Chris Jones will help do that even if most of them don't pan out. Then you have some others currently starting, whose future might be in the pen: Hale, Northcraft, Schlosser, Martin. A few of them will make good trade bait a la Clemens and Oberholtzer and Hoover.
Saying Wood will be top 50 is pretty bold.

The group with Terd, Gattis, etc. is just a bunch of fringe major leaguers/bench players.  That isn't going to get a high ranking.  

Salcedo and Bethancourt are two that can make tremendous strides.

"A coach has more to do with an NFL teams success than a QB" "I'd rather live in upstate Ny than Southern Cal -----ZITOED!

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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:12 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 


I'm bullish on Wood because he showed very good stuff and composure this spring. He has a much higher upside than Gilmartin. I'd say his upside is comparable to Minor at the same stage, and my recollection is Minor was a Top 50 prospect at one point.  Wood showed a good breaking ball, which apparently he's improved a lot this spring from working with some of the guys on the major league team. He already had a very good fastball/changeup combination. With the new improved curve, I think he's going to be very good this season even with skipping a level to AA.
 

Last edited 3/27/2013 2:13 PM by nsacpi

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  • bwtbird
  • High School Scout
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:15 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 



gilesfan wrote:
nsacpi wrote: The current system is underrated imo. Wood, Sims, Cabrera and Merejo are very talented pitching prospects with high ceilings. But no one wants to rank them too high because they haven't put in a year with a full season league yet. Ditto for Peraza among the position prospects. A year from now I predict Wood will be a Top 50 prospect, and couple of the others will be in the Top 100.

I also think some of our older upper level guys will turn out better than currently rated by BA and others. I'm talking about Gattis, Terdoslavich, Cunningham, Leonard, La Stella.

And then you have the twin enigmas: Bethancourt and Salcedo. I don't think either will be stars. But both have a good chance to be solid major league players.

We also have some interesting bullpen arms. Generally, I think relief pitchers are not worth that much. But it is helpful to have a pipeline of relievers coming through to keep the cost of the major league pen down. Guys like Jaime, Harper, Cornely, Hyatt, Chris Jones will help do that even if most of them don't pan out. Then you have some others currently starting, whose future might be in the pen: Hale, Northcraft, Schlosser, Martin. A few of them will make good trade bait a la Clemens and Oberholtzer and Hoover.
Saying Wood will be top 50 is pretty bold.

The group with Terd, Gattis, etc. is just a bunch of fringe major leaguers/bench players.  That isn't going to get a high ranking.  

Salcedo and Bethancourt are two that can make tremendous strides.
Whole bunch of folks would take issue with Gattis being described as "fringe major leaguer/bench type.....but Chipper et. al probably don't have a clue
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:18 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 



gilesfan wrote:


The group with Terd, Gattis, etc. is just a bunch of fringe major leaguers/bench players.  That isn't going to get a high ranking.  

Players in that group will not get you a high ranking.  But I'm saying one or two will turn out much better than their current rating status.  I'm thinking of Martin Prado who never was rated that highly coming up.  What I'm saying is someone from that group will surprise in a similar way.
 
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:22 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 



bwtbird wrote:
gilesfan wrote:
nsacpi wrote: The current system is underrated imo. Wood, Sims, Cabrera and Merejo are very talented pitching prospects with high ceilings. But no one wants to rank them too high because they haven't put in a year with a full season league yet. Ditto for Peraza among the position prospects. A year from now I predict Wood will be a Top 50 prospect, and couple of the others will be in the Top 100.

I also think some of our older upper level guys will turn out better than currently rated by BA and others. I'm talking about Gattis, Terdoslavich, Cunningham, Leonard, La Stella.

And then you have the twin enigmas: Bethancourt and Salcedo. I don't think either will be stars. But both have a good chance to be solid major league players.

We also have some interesting bullpen arms. Generally, I think relief pitchers are not worth that much. But it is helpful to have a pipeline of relievers coming through to keep the cost of the major league pen down. Guys like Jaime, Harper, Cornely, Hyatt, Chris Jones will help do that even if most of them don't pan out. Then you have some others currently starting, whose future might be in the pen: Hale, Northcraft, Schlosser, Martin. A few of them will make good trade bait a la Clemens and Oberholtzer and Hoover.
Saying Wood will be top 50 is pretty bold.

The group with Terd, Gattis, etc. is just a bunch of fringe major leaguers/bench players.  That isn't going to get a high ranking.  

Salcedo and Bethancourt are two that can make tremendous strides.
Whole bunch of folks would take issue with Gattis being described as "fringe major leaguer/bench type.....but Chipper et. al probably don't have a clue
GF clearly thinks Gattis is going to be a scrub borderline major league bench player. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:25 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 



nsacpi wrote:
gilesfan wrote:


The group with Terd, Gattis, etc. is just a bunch of fringe major leaguers/bench players.  That isn't going to get a high ranking.  

Players in that group will not get you a high ranking.  But I'm saying one or two will turn out much better than their current rating status.  I'm thinking of Martin Prado who never was rated that highly coming up.  What I'm saying is someone from that group will surprise in a similar way.
I have a feeling that Terd is going to open up a lot of eyes this season.
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:30 PM

Re: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current 



rlwhite wrote: The last time I couldn't at least see a case for the Braves having above average talent on the farm, Chuck Lamar was scouting director.

Just about any time you're on the tail end of a run that saw you graduate a ton of really good talent, especially when they're as young as ours have been, you're going to be lower on these prospect rankings because, as is the case with the Braves, most of your higher-upside talent is now in the lower levels. That ranking could easily shoot up over the next couple of years, and that's all we need. If by the time we need some more graduations from the minors, our farm is more like top 5-10, who will care where it was at the start of 2013? Unless you have an extremely low-budget payroll, you don't have to contstantly churn out top-of-the-line talent. We've done that for the past few years, so now we can let it breathe for 2-3.

Basically, the first part of your thread title usually begets the other. It's not that this shows a serious drop in our farm system because while we used to graduate elite talent, now we don't have any; it's that because we've graduated so much elite talent, now those guys are not in the minors anymore.

Last edited 3/27/2013 2:32 PM by smootness

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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:31 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 


Gattis could have a couple years of very good play no doubt, he's got the potential. He's not gonna get you a high prospect ranking though, that was the point. Saying anything other than he's the greatest of all time means you think he's a scrub.

Terdoslovich can hit a little bit. Probably ends up like a Hinske. But, his a solid stick with no defense and a likely bench player. None of those guys project to more than bench player/average starter with the caveat that Gattis is a special case.

"A coach has more to do with an NFL teams success than a QB" "I'd rather live in upstate Ny than Southern Cal -----ZITOED!

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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:35 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 


The ranking that we are discussing is the graduating talent to the majors. We are all aware that prospects like Gattis/Terd will do nothing for national rankings. But, the Braves recent track record for prospects over performing their rankings leads me to believe that we should give those two the benefit of th doubt.
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:41 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 


To me Joe Leonard is the most interesting guy on the sleeper list. Big athletic guy who is already a very good defender at third. He is still trying to figure out how to get some lift on his swing. Maybe he never figures it out. Maybe he does and becomes a 20-25 home run guy with outstanding defense at third.
 
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:45 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 



thethe wrote: The ranking that we are discussing is the graduating talent to the majors. We are all aware that prospects like Gattis/Terd will do nothing for national rankings. But, the Braves recent track record for prospects over performing their rankings leads me to believe that we should give those two the benefit of th doubt.
Which track record of them over performing their ranking?

Top 100 prospects since 09:

Freeman 
Gorkys Hernandez
Schafer
Hanson
Feliz
Andrus
Vizcaino
Teheran
Heyward
Kimbrel
Delgado
Simmons

"A coach has more to do with an NFL teams success than a QB" "I'd rather live in upstate Ny than Southern Cal -----ZITOED!

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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:54 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 


Simmons will far outperform his ranking. You could say Kimbrel has considering how incredible he has been. I think Freeman will do the same.

If you are going to put Andrus in there then you have to put how Prado outperformed his non ranking.

Question? Do you get happy when the Nats beat the Braves?
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Posted: 3/27/2013 2:57 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 



gilesfan wrote:
thethe wrote: The ranking that we are discussing is the graduating talent to the majors. We are all aware that prospects like Gattis/Terd will do nothing for national rankings. But, the Braves recent track record for prospects over performing their rankings leads me to believe that we should give those two the benefit of th doubt.
Which track record of them over performing their ranking?

Top 100 prospects since 09:

Freeman 
Gorkys Hernandez
Schafer
Hanson
Feliz
Andrus
Vizcaino
Teheran
Heyward
Kimbrel
Delgado
Simmons
Guys like Beachy, Venters, Prado provide reminders that not every good major league regular was highly rated coming up.  Avilan was never rated in of the league lists, let alone the Top 100s.
 

Last edited 3/27/2013 2:58 PM by nsacpi

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Posted: 3/27/2013 3:00 PM

RE: BA: ATL #1 in talent graduated since '09, #26 in current min 


Kimbrel had a historic season last year, so yeah he's overachieved, but that's really the only one I see from that list. We'll have to wait and see on guys like Simmons and Teheran (who's been a disappointment so far.)
I stopped voting when I stopped taking drugs. I believe both of those acts are closely related to delusional behavior.
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