To me he was a great player on really bad teams. I don't understand why he's having such a hard time getting in. Maybe his numbers just don't stack up with other all time greats but I remember watching him as a kid and he was the only reason to watch the Braves. He was the Atlanta Braves before Chipper, Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine came along.

Couldn't agree more.  It's a shame that the steroid era pretty much screwed an honest man.  Sad that most of us never really got to see him play as a contender. 

Dale should be in the hall.  It's not like we're asking for David Justice or Bob Horner.

Both Dale and Fred McGriff should be in.

He will, probably when he's eligible for the veterans ballot. A lot of fringe guys have gotten in that way, Sam Thompson, Travis Jackson, Chuck Klein, Earle Combs, Phil Rizzuto and many more are worse career total players who got in on veteran ballots, Murphy will get in, just not on the BBWAA.

ChapelHillMatt wrote: To me he was a great player on really bad teams. I don't understand why he's having such a hard time getting in. Maybe his numbers just don't stack up with other all time greats but I remember watching him as a kid and he was the only reason to watch the Braves. He was the Atlanta Braves before Chipper, Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine came along.

BTW the reason he's not getting in is simple, from 32-37 he compiled a 1.8 bWAR. While bWAR isn't the metric to get into the Hall, it shows how futile his production was after 31. That's why he's not in the hall, Up til 31 Murphy was on a good pace, if instead of falling off the face of the earth he aged more gracefully and compiled about 10 more WAR he'd have a much stronger case. 20 more and he would have been in the Ernie Banks area so he would have for sure been in . He just fell off the face of the earth.

Wth? bWar? Trying to hard with advanced stats? The reason Murphy isn't in is because his counting stats aren't big enough due to him falling off a cliff at 32. Same reason Andruw Jones will never make it

---------------------------------------------
--- ZitotheBrave wrote:

ChapelHillMatt wrote: To me he was a great player on really bad teams. I don't understand why he's having such a hard time getting in. Maybe his numbers just don't stack up with other all time greats but I remember watching him as a kid and he was the only reason to watch the Braves. He was the Atlanta Braves before Chipper, Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine came along.

BTW the reason he's not getting in is simple, from 32-37 he compiled a 1.8 bWAR. While bWAR isn't the metric to get into the Hall, it shows how futile his production was after 31. That's why he's not in the hall, Up til 31 Murphy was on a good pace, if instead of falling off the face of the earth he aged more gracefully and compiled about 10 more WAR he'd have a much stronger case. 20 more and he would have been in the Ernie Banks area so he would have for sure been in . He just fell off the face of the earth.

---------------------------------------------

No.

There are many players that have better stats than him that is not even in the Hall pre Steroid era.

He had two great years and then a bunch of average years and like KCGREW said, he fell off the cliff at a very EARLY age of 32.

krgrecw wrote: Wth? bWar? Trying to hard with advanced stats? The reason Murphy isn't in is because his counting stats aren't big enough due to him falling off a cliff at 32. Same reason Andruw Jones will never make it

Except Druw should make it, because for a decade, he was the greatest defender of all time. He just went from a lock to a more borderline case. He has a much stronger case than Murphy.

ZitotheBrave wrote:

krgrecw wrote: Wth? bWar? Trying to hard with advanced stats? The reason Murphy isn't in is because his counting stats aren't big enough due to him falling off a cliff at 32. Same reason Andruw Jones will never make it

Except Druw should make it, because for a decade, he was the greatest defender of all time. He just went from a lock to a more borderline case. He has a much stronger case than Murphy.

Druw was never considered "the best of the best" the way Murphy was during the 80's.  You keep pointing back to his fielding, but precious few position players have been inducted, largely due to their defense.  That list includes Ozzie Smith, Brooks Robinson and Bill Mazeroski...and Maz got in through Vet's Committee.  The difference is post season heroics.  Voters love that stuff.  If Murph hadn't tailed off during the late 80's, he was slam dunk.  He was one of the game's most feared hitters. 

With Druw, voters see a much more dramatic drop at a relatively young age, during the roids era, when there were several other players bringing much more power.  Google "andruw jones hall of fame."  Plenty has been written from all angles.  So, it's not just Braves fanboy homerism. 

To add, it'd be interesting to see how many of the voters actually even pay attention to WAR, esp. when there are 3 different versions.  You might be surprised at the relative lack of acceptance in evaluating performance and other factors.

Another candidate for the Hall of Very Good. Heckuva nice guy, but I doubt he gets in. He just didn't do it well enough for long enough. FWIW I dont see Andruw getting in either, but Andruw probably has a better shot than Murph

Knucksie wrote:
Druw was never considered "the best of the best" the way Murphy was during the 80's.  You keep pointing back to his fielding, but precious few position players have been inducted, largely due to their defense.  That list includes Ozzie Smith, Brooks Robinson and Bill Mazeroski...and Maz got in through Vet's Committee.  The difference is post season heroics.  Voters love that stuff.  If Murph hadn't tailed off during the late 80's, he was slam dunk.  He was one of the game's most feared hitters. 

With Druw, voters see a much more dramatic drop at a relatively young age, during the roids era, when there were several other players bringing much more power.  Google "andruw jones hall of fame."  Plenty has been written from all angles.  So, it's not just Braves fanboy homerism. 

To add, it'd be interesting to see how many of the voters actually even pay attention to WAR, esp. when there are 3 different versions.  You might be surprised at the relative lack of acceptance in evaluating performance and other factors.

And Andruw is a better defender than Ozzie and Brooks.

Andruw Jones is the best defensive player I've ever seen and maybe more than any player ever had a positive impact on the men aroudn him defensively. From 2005-2007 Francoeur looked like he may be the best defensive RF in baseball posting a combined 40.5 UZR in those season, his total for every season after that? -6.4. JD Drew had one season with an UZR over 11, 2004 where it was 16.3.

Andruw should get in because of being a freak with his glove, doesn't hurt that he could hit pretty well as well.

While it's not fair to Murph, you can't compare him to Druw, he was average to below average defensively for his position and wasn't that much better of a hitter than Druw (120 wRC+ vs 111) Andruw meanwhile is the best player to ever play CF defensively for a career and has the second highest Fielding run total of any player ever (only one more healthy season behind Brooks Robinson)

I'd like to see #3 get in.... but then again...I'd also like to see Glenn Hubbard, Bruce Benedict, Claudell Washington, and of course, Biff Pocaroba make it too...

HulaVol wrote: I'd like to see #3 get in.... but then again...I'd also like to see Glenn Hubbard, Bruce Benedict, Claudell Washington, and of course, Biff Pocaroba make it too...

What about Andres Thomas and Ozzie Virgil?

Brian Asselstine is a shoe in.

Jeff Borroughs as well.

Oh the days of Pepe Frias, Jerry Royster and the hodge podge outfield.

ChapelHillMatt wrote:

HulaVol wrote: I'd like to see #3 get in.... but then again...I'd also like to see Glenn Hubbard, Bruce Benedict, Claudell Washington, and of course, Biff Pocaroba make it too...

What about Andres Thomas and Ozzie Virgil?

AerchAngel wrote:

1983	27	Braves	162	589	131	178	24	4	36	0	121	90	12	110	0	6	2	15	.302	.393	.540
1984	28	Braves	162	607	94	176	32	8	36	0	100	79	20	134	0	3	2	13	.290	.372	.547
1985	29	Braves	162	616	118	185	32	2	37	0	111	90	15	141	0	5	1	14	.300	.388	.539
1986	30	Braves	160	614	89	163	29	7	29	0	83	75	5	141	0	1	2	10	.265	.347	.477
1987	31	Braves	159	566	115	167	27	1	44	1	105	115	29	136	0	5	7	11	.295	.417	.580
Decent 5 year run but not HOF worthy

/You should make note he was MVP in '82 and '83.  They generally give those to the best player in the league for that year. He will get in, those back to back MVP's will make the difference eventually.  He is the only two time MVP not in, that means he was the best of the best in a league that included names like Bench, Schmidt, and Dawson.

Some of you act like the drop off was on purpose.  He lost his knees people.  Just ask Chipper...

Fred McGriff should go in before Murphy, his stats along with Edgar Martinez are FAR superior in their career.

RobertJSublett wrote:

AerchAngel wrote:

1983	27	Braves	162	589	131	178	24	4	36	0	121	90	12	110	0	6	2	15	.302	.393	.540
1984	28	Braves	162	607	94	176	32	8	36	0	100	79	20	134	0	3	2	13	.290	.372	.547
1985	29	Braves	162	616	118	185	32	2	37	0	111	90	15	141	0	5	1	14	.300	.388	.539
1986	30	Braves	160	614	89	163	29	7	29	0	83	75	5	141	0	1	2	10	.265	.347	.477
1987	31	Braves	159	566	115	167	27	1	44	1	105	115	29	136	0	5	7	11	.295	.417	.580
Decent 5 year run but not HOF worthy

/You should make note he was MVP in '82 and '83.  They generally give those to the best player in the league for that year. He will get in, those back to back MVP's will make the difference eventually.  He is the only two time MVP not in, that means he was the best of the best in a league that included names like Bench, Schmidt, and Dawson.

Some of you act like the drop off was on purpose.  He lost his knees people.  Just ask Chipper...

RobertJSublett wrote:

AerchAngel wrote:

1983	27	Braves	162	589	131	178	24	4	36	0	121	90	12	110	0	6	2	15	.302	.393	.540
1984	28	Braves	162	607	94	176	32	8	36	0	100	79	20	134	0	3	2	13	.290	.372	.547
1985	29	Braves	162	616	118	185	32	2	37	0	111	90	15	141	0	5	1	14	.300	.388	.539
1986	30	Braves	160	614	89	163	29	7	29	0	83	75	5	141	0	1	2	10	.265	.347	.477
1987	31	Braves	159	566	115	167	27	1	44	1	105	115	29	136	0	5	7	11	.295	.417	.580
Decent 5 year run but not HOF worthy

/You should make note he was MVP in '82 and '83.  They generally give those to the best player in the league for that year. He will get in, those back to back MVP's will make the difference eventually.  He is the only two time MVP not in, that means he was the best of the best in a league that included names like Bench, Schmidt, and Dawson.

Some of you act like the drop off was on purpose.  He lost his knees people.  Just ask Chipper...

Unfortunately he dragged his stats down by trying to hang on. If he would of hung it up sooner he doesn't retire as a .265 hitter.

I hope Murph finally gets in. Andruw should definitely get in. Yeah he has a low avg. But the man has 10 GG and considered by many to be the 2nd best defensive outfielder ever to play the game. Ozzie Smith is in based purely on defense. Why would a guy with as good of defense in CF with almost 450 HRs not get in?

If it were possible, which it is not, I wonder how good Murph and McGriff would look if you could scale back the inflated steroid numbers of Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Arod, Palmeiro and others. With the great character and the elimination of Playstation numbers both might get in.

RobertJSublett wrote:

AerchAngel wrote:

1983	27	Braves	162	589	131	178	24	4	36	0	121	90	12	110	0	6	2	15	.302	.393	.540
1984	28	Braves	162	607	94	176	32	8	36	0	100	79	20	134	0	3	2	13	.290	.372	.547
1985	29	Braves	162	616	118	185	32	2	37	0	111	90	15	141	0	5	1	14	.300	.388	.539
1986	30	Braves	160	614	89	163	29	7	29	0	83	75	5	141	0	1	2	10	.265	.347	.477
1987	31	Braves	159	566	115	167	27	1	44	1	105	115	29	136	0	5	7	11	.295	.417	.580
Decent 5 year run but not HOF worthy

/You should make note he was MVP in '82 and '83.  They generally give those to the best player in the league for that year. He will get in, those back to back MVP's will make the difference eventually.  He is the only two time MVP not in, that means he was the best of the best in a league that included names like Bench, Schmidt, and Dawson.

Some of you act like the drop off was on purpose.  He lost his knees people.  Just ask Chipper...

I never saw the guy play, but a look at his numbers says he doesn't stack up. It doesn't matter why he fell off so hard, he did. That's what counts.